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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: KeithB on August 14, 2020, 06:49:23 PM

Title: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 14, 2020, 06:49:23 PM
We left first thing this morning on our first proper trip with the Glamper and headed west from Sydney to Orange, planning to spend our first night at Parkes. But then, about 5km short of Orange, the engine in our 200 series with 230,000 km on it blew up.
It blew so much pale grey smoke that we thought the van had caught fire. Looks like a busted piston or turbo or something. We lost 4 litres of oil in the time it took to slow down and pull over. Had it trucked to the local Toyota Dealer and the van towed to a caravan park.
We have rented a car to see the local sights while it gets fixed. but I am consulting my grief counsellor about the possible invoice.
At least the Glamper went well.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 14, 2020, 06:56:50 PM
Well Keith, that's obviously not very good. :'(

Hope it turns out to be something less serious than the initial diagnosis.

Losing 4lt of oil is ominous, though...

 :cheers:

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: bmwfreak on August 14, 2020, 06:57:30 PM
Oh dear  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: glenm64 on August 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Your reminding me of Job, Keith. A man of many trials.
Hope its not as $$ as it sounds.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 14, 2020, 07:04:44 PM
Oh no, hope all is not too bad.

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Pottsy on August 14, 2020, 07:17:56 PM
Ouch,your overdue some good luck. Let’s hope it’s not too pricey and a relatively quick repair.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: MarkVS on August 14, 2020, 07:45:40 PM
Not good Keith..... :-[
Enjoy the sights while you’re there and not worry about the car until you have to..
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: nab on August 14, 2020, 08:24:45 PM
Bloody hell I reckon you ran over a black cat or smashed a few mirrors in ya life!!!!!! As above about time something went to plan for you.

Any symptoms or issues before this happened? Who did the servicing?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Spada on August 14, 2020, 08:26:44 PM
Oh crap, that doeznt sound good mate. Hope it isnt as bad as it sounds.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rags on August 14, 2020, 08:29:41 PM
Bugga, hopefully you can sort without much pain. Maybe a visit to the Village Bakery for a pie, vanilla slice and coffee will be a bit of good medicine while you wait.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Pete79 on August 14, 2020, 08:31:55 PM
Oh man, that sucks.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: duggie on August 14, 2020, 09:39:13 PM
Bugga , my guess would be turbo failed and is feeding oil into the cylinders . Hope all is fixed and your journey is continued .
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 14, 2020, 10:20:46 PM
I just wrote a long a detailed post about the whole thing and it vanished into space. Just to summarise:
The vehicle has been well maintained for the last 100,000km that I have owned it and has been serviced by a Landcruiser owner mechanic who I have used for many years with 5,000km oil and filter changes.
My wife said she heard a funny noise before the smoke came. We did have oil pressure after a 3 litre top up and no smoke under 1500rpm for the few moments that we ran it.
The local people were fantastic and way too kind for words.
Nothing will happen till Monday.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on August 14, 2020, 10:49:22 PM
One day soon you are actually going to get away and nothing is going to break/go wrong. Until then, hope this speed hump isn't anywhere near as bad as it sounds.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on August 15, 2020, 07:27:24 AM
Can only agree with the rest of 'em, Keith - sooner or later, things are going to start going right for you!

Good luck with Monday!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: plusnq on August 15, 2020, 07:44:04 AM
Sorry to hear this KeithB. Good luck on Monday
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 15, 2020, 10:31:59 AM
Quote from: KeithB
. We lost 4 litres of oil in the time it took to slow down and pull over.
this bit is strange... thats a Shit load of oil to lose in that amount of time unless you were doing warp factor 12..
are you sure it hadnt lost it before? or had it serviced recently and he forgot to top it up? was there oil in the exhaust or covering the trailer?
any noises apart from what your missus heard with/before smoke? any sort of signs? loss of power?
any rattles or noises after starting again with the oil top up in it?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: edz on August 15, 2020, 12:26:02 PM
Not good Keith, lets hope its something easily fixed and no permanent damage ..All the best .
Turbo oil feed line or return line failure [  turbo shaft seal maybe ]  . oil filter loose and blew the  seal [ possible ] . Had an oil pump pressure releif valve jam once and blew the oil filter apart ....    Fookin Big Hole  in sump [ But you would hear thors  hammers belting away ] ..
About all I can think of that would dump that much oil that quick
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 15, 2020, 02:37:11 PM
  I feel for Keith and the possibility of a big bill. The engine blowing up could have happened at any time...just unfortunate that it happened whilst he was heading off on a holiday.  I,ve been nowhere (apart from 2 weeks to Gladstone for a memorial service) because of this bloody virus.   I personally would definitely not have headed off on a holiday  whilst a request had been issued to stay put. NSW are now in a bit of strife and I think all travel (non essential) should be stopped.  People are just not taking this virus seriously enough. Many southeners camped up here in Qld at the moment that definitely do not want to head home...who can blame them?   Very stressful times for all, some more than others and we just have to think of each other and not ourselves.  Keiths done nothing illegal and was doing what all of us want to do...get out and live!!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 15, 2020, 02:49:03 PM
Thread tidied up to keep it on topic. Let us know how you get on Keith

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 15, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
this bit is strange... thats a Shit load of oil to lose in that amount of time unless you were doing warp factor 12..
are you sure it hadnt lost it before? or had it serviced recently and he forgot to top it up? was there oil in the exhaust or covering the trailer?
any noises apart from what your missus heard with/before smoke? any sort of signs? loss of power?
any rattles or noises after starting again with the oil top up in it?

I am ignoring the so-called COVID experts as we have always kept well within the rules and been especially careful. We got a lot of funny looks down at the shops as we were the only ones with masks on and walked out of several stores where the social distancing was not up to scratch. We had planned to do bush camping for the entire trip.

Back to Bird's points.
The 5,000 km service was done 1000km ago and we don't burn oil between changes.
My mechanic is a Landcruiser man with his own 200 Series who has done our work for many years. He did a super big service at the end of March in expectation of our lap a few weeks later. The low mileage since then was a consequence of us staying at home.

I had put the POWER button on to gun it up some uphill overtaking lanes in S5. But it blew on a gentle downhill slope.
No oil on the van or the Stone Stomper. Just grey-white smoke and plenty of it.
After putting a few litres of oil in it had oil pressure and no smoke at under 1500rpm with no engine knocks. Mind you, we only gave it two 30 second runs before it went onto the tilt tray.
It sounds turbo related to me.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 15, 2020, 05:22:26 PM
Quote from: KeithB
It sounds turbo related to me.
Keith
that would be a win i reckon.
any turbo upgrades for em :D  >:D >:D  ;D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 15, 2020, 06:08:10 PM
that would be a win i reckon.
any turbo upgrades for em :D  >:D >:D  ;D

Heaps available but they dont really need them, heaps of power available as stock

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 15, 2020, 06:22:23 PM
Yeah sounds turbo related . Turbos and injectors are really the only things that can usually give grief if there well maintained . Keith I live in the blue mtns , I am tied up with commitments till Thursday but after that if you need your trailer towed back or a lift let me know mate .
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 15, 2020, 08:53:32 PM
Heaps available but they dont really need them, heaps of power available as stock

GG
never enough.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 16, 2020, 06:40:31 AM
Heaps available but they dont really need them, heaps of power available as stock

GG


So would it a relatively easy fix to lose the turbo and just run natural aspirated....at least until  the finances allow a turbo replacement?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 16, 2020, 07:48:59 AM

So would it a relatively easy fix to lose the turbo and just run natural aspirated....at least until  the finances allow a turbo replacement?

Never heard of it being done, with all the electrics and hoses connected to them it would be difficult. The oil lines would need to be undone and bypassed, it would also run pretty rough I think

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 16, 2020, 09:15:39 AM
Yeah sounds turbo related . Turbos and injectors are really the only things that can usually give grief if there well maintained . Keith I live in the blue mtns , I am tied up with commitments till Thursday but after that if you need your trailer towed back or a lift let me know mate .

That is most unbelievably kind offer Jim. Bit we thought we might hang around and be tourists for a week or so in our rental car, which the NRMA Premium thingy we are a member of is paying for.  There's lots to see around the district and this morning we are off to look at a fish fossil museum at Canowindra, which is heritage listed.

Any other suggestions would be most welcome.

We are in the Canobolas caravan park, which is pleasant enough. But we are stuck cheek by jowl with other rigs and are rationing the use of our diesel water heater because of the noise. Mind you, the big rig behind us has an aircon which sounds like an Atlas rocket, while our little domestic split system aircon is very quiet. We are as warm as toast, but snow is expected on Friday.

Caravanners are a kind lot. When we arrived towed by a very kind local mechanic, our 15 amp lead was not long enough to reach the power pole. Within two minutes our neighbour had come out with  along lead for us to use. We  got our own 25 metre lead at Bunnings yesterday morning.

Jim, thank you so much for the kind offer. But we think we will be okay.

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Foo on August 16, 2020, 09:20:13 AM
Never heard of it being done, with all the electrics and hoses connected to them it would be difficult. The oil lines would need to be undone and bypassed, it would also run pretty rough I think

GG

Plus sensors and fuel mapping in the pooter.  :o

Foo
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: HKB Electronics on August 16, 2020, 10:04:11 AM

So would it a relatively easy fix to lose the turbo and just run natural aspirated....at least until  the finances allow a turbo replacement?

Engine mapping designed with turbo in situ, ECU would spit the dummy, engine may or may not run but from what I have read with Prados
is if the turbo carks it you get virtually no power from the engine at all.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 16, 2020, 10:31:42 AM
Sounds like your in good spirits Keith.   Have a great break and the car will get sorted. :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 16, 2020, 11:42:51 AM

So would it a relatively easy fix to lose the turbo and just run natural aspirated....at least until  the finances allow a turbo replacement?

If only it was that easy. Just to bypass the turbos is a major and you'd have a zillion fault codes up that would make it run in limp mode...if at all.

To replace a turbo at a dealer is usually an engine out job ( other places can do it without removing it ), but you are hamstrung if it's at a dealer.
Very unusual to have a major fault like that without pre warning.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 16, 2020, 03:24:10 PM
All good Keith , could be worse places to be stuck . Offer stands anyway if it doesn’t work out. Hoping it is just a turbo and they can get a reconditioned one of and get you going ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 16, 2020, 05:59:36 PM
I am not sure whether a Toyo dealer will install reconditioned parts. We'll have to wait and see.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rags on August 16, 2020, 06:12:34 PM
I am not sure whether a Toyo dealer will install reconditioned parts. We'll have to wait and see.
Keith


Keith, just thought I would mention that there is a good diesel workshop out in Orange.

 http://www.dieselandturbo.com.au/index.htm (http://www.dieselandturbo.com.au/index.htm)

I had then do new injectors and pump service on my old 1KZ Prado ( non common rail) a few years back (more like 6 -7 years ago) when I lived in the Blue Mts. May be worth a chat after Toyota has had a look to get a second opinion.
Russ
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 16, 2020, 07:37:12 PM
Good idea. Thanks Russ.
Keith '
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 16, 2020, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: KeithB
I am not sure whether a Toyo dealer will install reconditioned parts. We'll have to wait and see.

I think once its apart your pretty stuck either way ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 16, 2020, 10:47:46 PM
I think once its apart your pretty stuck either way ?

It should have fault codes showing...they should have an idea without putting a spanner on it.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 17, 2020, 07:38:15 AM
It should have fault codes showing...they should have an idea without putting a spanner on it.

Not always the case, trust me i know

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 17, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Not always the case, trust me i know

GG

Did you do a turbo on yours ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 17, 2020, 05:54:46 PM
Looks like a busted passenger side turbo, which is not all that uncommon. They are compression testing it tomorrow.
It was compression tested when I bought it four years ago and it tested perfectly. We have had a snorkel on since then and have done very little dusty driving.
Looks like the engine will have to come out.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: 6knights on August 17, 2020, 06:48:28 PM
That is most unbelievably kind offer Jim. Bit we thought we might hang around and be tourists for a week or so in our rental car, which the NRMA Premium thingy we are a member of is paying for.  There's lots to see around the district and this morning we are off to look at a fish fossil museum at Canowindra, which is heritage listed.

Any other suggestions would be most welcome.


Keith

 Is your hire car off road friendly ?  as there is a nice picnic spot with a drive to a look out at Nangar National Park which is out toward Eugowra, well worth a drive, last time l was there the roads were good although there would be a bit of water out there now.

Eugowra it's self has a few murals in the town

"Ophir" just out of town, not to bad for a drive to fill in time.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on August 17, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
Any news? or is it that bad that you just don't want to talk about it?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 17, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
Any news? or is it that bad that you just don't want to talk about it?

Reply #40....
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on August 18, 2020, 07:06:17 AM
Same as my mates, driven lightly then off on a highway towing run. Left turbo picks up a bit of sludge that comes loose from the undersized journals. I hope this isn’t what happened to yours.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: 6knights on August 18, 2020, 08:59:16 AM
The historic village of carcoar would be a good day out as well,  it's a small village set in a  lovely location. Another one is the Japanese gardens at Cowra if you want to travel that far afield.

Mount Canobolas is another  obvious one , you might have to go up before the weekend though ......brrrr it will be cold then.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 18, 2020, 09:54:01 AM
The historic village of carcoar would be a good day out as well,  it's a small village set in a  lovely location. Another one is the Japanese gardens at Cowra if you want to travel that far afield.

Mount Canobolas is another  obvious one , you might have to go up before the weekend though ......brrrr it will be cold then.

Thanks heaps. We did the round trip Cownawindra-Cowra-Carcoar on Sunday, but it was getting a bit late to stop at Carcoar. Walked the Japanese gardens and the remains of the prison camp at Cowra. We'd love to come back and see the gardens in springtime. Went up the mountain yesterday arvo and you are right. It was bloody freezing. Denise has gone off in the renter this morning go walk around the lake while I get a few little things done on the Glamper.
We are expecting to hear from the Toyota Dealer around lunchtime.
Does it really take 4 hours to compression test an LC200?
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: kizza1 on August 18, 2020, 10:00:35 AM
Maybe check out gturbo if you have to go down that path. I think they do exchange and new.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 18, 2020, 01:59:51 PM
Same as my mates, driven lightly then off on a highway towing run. Left turbo picks up a bit of sludge that comes loose from the undersized journals.

Can you explain this a bit ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 18, 2020, 05:28:55 PM
I got an after lunch call from the Orange Toyo dealer, expecting to learn of the results of the promised compression test, only to be told that they can't actually do the test till Thursday afternoon. They said that they could not say when any repair would start or finish, that the engine was probably buggered through dust damage and that it would probably take several weeks to get parts, quite possibly from Japan.

When the dummy stopped bouncing around the inside of the caravan, I called up Mechanic B. He's the one with a RH turbo on the shelf and a crate engine on the floor. The engine will have to come out and it looks like about $5K to replace the turbo and do a prior compression test. It will probably cost a bit more than that because of the age of the vehicle and all of the extras under the bonnet. We booked a tilt tray to pick the vehicle up from Toyota tomorrow morning.

I then called up my own mechanic in Sydney, who has serviced the vehicle every 5,000km in the four years or so that I have owned it. He said in no way was there any dust damage to the motor. It compression tested perfect when I bought it.

So, with a bit of luck, it will be a simple turbo change, inspection of other turbo and overall check of the engine on the shop floor. There is a very tiny leak in the steering rack, which is only going to get worse, and it might be a good time to get that attended to as well.

Nothing you can't fix with money. The NRMA Premium Service is paying for our car rental for the time being up to $700 plus $700 for accommodation. I'll ask tomorrow if we can roll all of that into car hire.

Keith







Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: MDS69 on August 18, 2020, 05:42:04 PM
That seems to be the problem with dealers, they aren’t able to cope with walk ins. You want to drop in to look at a warranty concern or check engine light and they want to book you in in a weeks time.
Hopefully the private workshop can fix you up with one turbo, some fluids and be on your way.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 18, 2020, 06:22:42 PM
Same as my mates, driven lightly then off on a highway towing run. Left turbo picks up a bit of sludge that comes loose from the undersized journals. I hope this isn’t what happened to yours.

Been on a few 200 series forums and this is the 1st time I've heard this ever mentioned ?

A motor or turbo can fail at any time in the life of any car or 4wd, but that fault is a new one ??
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rossm on August 18, 2020, 06:36:56 PM
That seems to be the problem with dealers, they aren’t able to cope with walk ins. You want to drop in to look at a warranty concern or check engine light and they want to book you in in a weeks time.
Hopefully the private workshop can fix you up with one turbo, some fluids and be on your way.
I wonder whether anybody in a dealer service centre would have the experience to do an engine  rebuild.
Regular servicing would seem to be their business model.
I am sure I am not telling anybody something new but the old advice "get three quotes" is pretty apt in this situation.
Hope it works out well.
 
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 18, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
Maybe truck it home and get your own mechanic to do the work?
You might be able to put the car hire and accom money towards the cost.

Jim has kindly offered to tow the van home for you.

Once you're home, it can take as long as it takes...

My 2c...

 :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on August 18, 2020, 06:57:27 PM
Can you explain this a bit ?

I wouldn’t want to worry the OP with scuttlebutt. I was with him when it went. The mech back in brissy diagnosed it correctly over the phone, right down to how it had been driven. I’ve never heard of it before or after but evidently the mechanic had.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 18, 2020, 06:57:45 PM
Quote from: rossm
I wonder whether anybody in a dealer service centre would have the experience to do an engine  rebuild.
Regular servicing would seem to be their business model.
I agree with line 1... and 2
bit like panel beating - it used to be beating things back into shape - now its remove and replace... Not worth their time and $ to spend 1/2 a day repairing a rear 1/4.

Also agree with Geoff if it is an option $$$ wise for the tow..
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 18, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
I agree with line 1... and 2
bit like panel beating - it used to be beating things back into shape - now its remove and replace... Not worth their time and $ to spend 1/2 a day repairing a rear 1/4.

Also agree with Geoff if it is an option $$$ wise for the tow..

Yup dealers are useless now for anything but logbook servicing then they even screw that up. Totally over Toyota service.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 19, 2020, 07:50:15 AM
Maybe truck it home and get your own mechanic to do the work?
......

 :cheers:

I'm not really a fan of getting major work done away from home.

Can be a problem if any issues arise later, but sometimes there isn't a choice...

 :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on August 19, 2020, 08:32:37 AM
I then called up my own mechanic in Sydney, who has serviced the vehicle every 5,000km in the four years or so that I have owned it. He said in no way was there any dust damage to the motor. It compression tested perfect when I bought it.

What does he think has gone wrong then ???

Did you suggest bringing it back to him ???
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 19, 2020, 09:58:05 AM
Fizzie I didn't keep my own bloke on the phone for too long. He said it sounds like a blown turbo, at least at first blush. No engine knock. Easy starting with oil pressure and no smoke at less than 1500 rpm under no load. It's driveable if you have enough oil.
Just taking a quick look at local rates, I think there would be no change out of $2K to truck it to my mechanic in the Sydney Inner West.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 19, 2020, 10:54:26 AM
I reckon I'd be heading home.

In the current situation, some parts and services may not be readily available.

It could be quite a while before it's sorted.

My 2c....again.... ;D

 :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: jwb on August 19, 2020, 12:44:18 PM
Wouldn't your roadside coverage give you the choice to choose either local repair
Or transportation back to base?
So it shouldn't cost you a dime!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 19, 2020, 01:22:16 PM
Quote from: jwb
wouldn't your roadside coverage give you the choice to choose either local repair
Or transportation back to base?
So it shouldn't cost you a dime!
RACV total care "used" to give that option.. that changed to save $...
Now its to closest repair place, and if it cant be fixed in X days then they take it home for you as dude in club found out when his disco threw a rod at Eden on way to Cape York :( should never have let his missus drive ;)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on August 19, 2020, 03:35:15 PM
and if it cant be fixed in X days then they take it home for you

Yeah, but the cost to take it home is covered, isn't it ??? (As long as you're in the "Top" bracket)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 19, 2020, 03:39:25 PM
Yeah, but the cost to take it home is covered, isn't it ??? (As long as you're in the "Top" bracket)
as long as the 'closest' mechanic cant do it.. unsure what happens if he says he can do it, but doesnt... you could be stranded for yonks.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rossm on August 19, 2020, 03:44:11 PM
as long as the 'closest' mechanic cant do it.. unsure what happens if he says he can do it, but doesnt... you could be stranded for yonks.

Might be a good time to check again  exactly what my RACWA top level membership covers. Best to know before the excrement hits the fan.
 
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tedota on August 19, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Might be a good time to check again  exactly what my RACWA top level membership covers. Best to know before the excrement hits the fan.

Top cover will cover your transport at no cost. Found out on Thursday when BILs Jackaroo shat the tranny in Carnarvon. He has been a member since 1964 with only gold cover and they would only cover half the $4389 that the local RAC dude was going to charge to get it to Perth. We told him to jam it up his clacker and got a backload on a truck for $500.  ;D ;D Robbing pricks.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: sparksy on August 20, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
Top cover will cover your transport at no cost. Found out on Thursday when BILs Jackaroo shat the tranny in Carnarvon. He has been a member since 1964 with only gold cover and they would only cover half the $4389 that the local RAC dude was going to charge to get it to Perth. We told him to jam it up his clacker and got a backload on a truck for $500.  ;D ;D Robbing pricks.

Dont bank on the transport being covered.

We werent too impressed with the RACWA . We broke down about 10Km out of port Hedland a few years back. Prado just stopped so rang breakdown service, OK towies were great in getting us into Hedland but that was as far as it went.They only offer a tow, 5 litres of fuel or a jump start. We were dropped off at a caravan park and told to ring in morning when we sorted out who we wanted to fix car and they would tow us there.They dont have a mechanic in major centres to diagnose any faults and offer advice.
That was with full cover on gold membership. We dont get anything like what is offered in eastern states.
We were offered a hire car OR accommodation but not both.  After no technical help from RAC rang my mechanic in perth who after about a hour on phone trying different thing worked it out to be a blocked venturi in second tank and it ran after putting more fuel in. Even RAC didnt offer when tilttray turned up in morning to take car away, to help get fuel , had to walk into town and carry back a jerry of fuel.  Got back to perth by just keeping second tank full.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 21, 2020, 05:06:49 PM
We got our diagnosis today from a reputable specialist truck and 4WD workshop in Orange and the prognosis is less than good. We fired the Toyota dealer. The passenger side turbo, as we know, is stuffed. So is that side of the engine. Two cylinders are down to the low 200's on compression. So it's a whole new engine, which is comparable in price to fixing the old one and will be vastly more reliable.

Looks like close to $26K, which is a lot to spend on a 12 year old vehicle. But it makes financial sense to go ahead, especially as he has perhaps (according to a PM from another Swagger) the last crate engine in Australia. It seems that COVID is buggering up parts delivery from Japan.

God willing and the floods don't rise it MIGHT be ready at the end of next week. In the meantime we are being tourists during the day and binge watching the full series of Game of Thrones at night. It is due to snow tomorrow and the next day. Thank God for an internal shower and dunny.

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 21, 2020, 06:06:10 PM
OUCH!! :o :o

You have my sympathies, Keith.

 :cheers:

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Pottsy on August 21, 2020, 06:10:16 PM
Bugga.  :-[
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rags on August 21, 2020, 06:31:15 PM
Keith, although it is a bad diagnosis, your logic of spending the $ on a repair makes sense in my mind also. I’m sure the fix will be cheaper then any change over costs.
Good luck
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2020, 06:56:09 PM
Keith, although it is a bad diagnosis, your logic of spending the $ on a repair makes sense in my mind also. I’m sure the fix will be cheaper then any change over costs.
Good luck
yea agree.. selling what you have there you'd get nothing - and starting again is fawkin expensive..


What about insurance - bloke in club drowned his 100 years back and got a new engine through insurance.
Worth a call for 26,000..
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: MDS69 on August 21, 2020, 07:07:14 PM
If you don’t mind is that price quoted for a complete engine, ie manifolds, turbos, injectors, water pump etc. what about alternator and starter.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on August 21, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
OUCH!! :o :o

You have my sympathies, Keith.

 :cheers:

Yep, my thoughts too, although ouch seems inadequate.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 21, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
If you don’t mind is that price quoted for a complete engine, ie manifolds, turbos, injectors, water pump etc. what about alternator and starter.
Long motor from Toyota $17k. Motor, new injectors, new pump, fuel rails and water pump. You fit your starter, EGR, manifold, turbos, alternator, inlet and exhaust manifolds.

New turbos from Toyota are around the $4k mark which includes stepper motors

There's over 20 hours of labour to remove, swap and replace the engine at $160/hr.

GG

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on August 21, 2020, 07:40:59 PM
Same outcome as my mates as well. His ended up at $32k by a brissy Toyota dealer.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: jwb on August 21, 2020, 07:43:38 PM
I know a guy that had 'dusted" engine damage covered by insurance mostly!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 22, 2020, 06:33:59 AM
If you don’t mind is that price quoted for a complete engine, ie manifolds, turbos, injectors, water pump etc. what about alternator and starter.

I got quoted $19K for the new engine, which includes fuel and water pumps and injectors. There is also one turbo in the overall quote. Starter motor and alternator will be inspected and reused as will the drivers side turbo if it looks okay.

At the workshop, I did notice some dust on the clean side of the air intake. That's a Toyota design fault which will need to be addressed. There are a few solutions on the internet, but I'd appreciate any suggestions on sealing the air box

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 22, 2020, 09:39:58 AM
geez.... $26,000 friggin dollars.  :o
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 22, 2020, 09:51:48 AM
Keith I know your spending a shed load but make sure the starter motor is in excellent nic. They are a pain to get to in the 200 so you don’t want to be having to pull the valley apart to replace it anytime soon.

Donaldson filters have acknowledged there’s an issue with 200 air filters and I saw an email from them on lcool where they are proposing to have a whole new filter housing available 1st or 2nd quarter next year . I am holding off for now will probably just run the Donaldson replacement filters as they are a bit thicker.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: camdyson on August 23, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
Seems it’s cheaper do just drive off the road and roll it next time, if you’re insured.....

Not that I’d condone such a thing of course  8)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 23, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
You may not know until the motor gets looked at, but it takes a lot of dust to actually "dust" a motor. If the compression checks out OK, then it was probably a turbo failure, not dusting. Quite possible it's just a turbo and nothing else. Best of luck with it !!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 23, 2020, 03:56:05 PM
The compression on two of the passenger side cylinders (where the dust and crank case fumes seem to end up) was down to the low 200's. There was also dust visible on the clean side of the air box.
It's a known fault with the 70 and 200 Series.
Looks like the crank case got pressurised and blew oil through the turbo and the intercooler.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 23, 2020, 04:15:55 PM
The compression on two of the passenger side cylinders (where the dust and crank case fumes seem to end up) was down to the low 200's. There was also dust visible on the clean side of the air box.
It's a known fault with the 70 and 200 Series.
Looks like the crank case got pressurised and blew oil through the turbo and the intercooler.
Keith

Speaking to my best mate today and mentioned about blown turbos on 200 series.  He said it was a known problems and it was due to crappy air filter design.  He has has to fix a few up but he did mention that every time he rebuilt a motor he always tried to talk the owners into getting both turbos replaced.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 23, 2020, 04:57:25 PM
The compression on two of the passenger side cylinders (where the dust and crank case fumes seem to end up) was down to the low 200's. There was also dust visible on the clean side of the air box.
It's a known fault with the 70 and 200 Series.
Looks like the crank case got pressurised and blew oil through the turbo and the intercooler.
Keith

Out of curiosity, do you do a lot of dirt roads and have you got a snorkel ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 23, 2020, 09:52:57 PM
We have an Airmax snorkel and did a very dusty Darling River run two years ago at the worst of the drought. Most of the dust was from oncoming vehicles.
Since then we have just mostly done city work and all on sealed roads using hardly any throttle. Two years prior the compression tested okay. So I think the damage was done then and only became evident towing 2.5 tonnes for the first time at full tilt up hills in the passing lane.It actually shat itself on a gentle downhill run some time afterwards.

Tomorrow I'll take some photos of dust on the clean side of the filter, then document the maintenance history and see what the insurance company has to say.

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 23, 2020, 10:43:03 PM
We have an Airmax snorkel and did a very dusty Darling River run two years ago at the worst of the drought. Most of the dust was from oncoming vehicles.


Keith

Running a snorkel, I would have thought it would take a lot more than 2 weeks worth of dusty roads to wear a couple of cylinders.

When the time comes, it would be good to know what the vanes on the left turbo look like ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 24, 2020, 04:24:03 AM
Running a snorkel, I would have thought it would take a lot more than 2 weeks worth of dusty roads to wear a couple of cylinders.

When the time comes, it would be good to know what the vanes on the left turbo look like ?

Link following Gronk gives a small sample of issues people have had with the 200 series.  Dusting is too common..$20+k is an average price fix...yikes!! About the only way to ensure it doesn,t happen is to onluy use genuine parts and fit an aftermarket air cleaner box!

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/toyota-landcruiser-j200r-2008-release?page=8 (https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/toyota-landcruiser-j200r-2008-release?page=8)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on August 24, 2020, 07:58:24 AM
So how is this not a Toyota problem to fix ??? >:( :'(
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 24, 2020, 08:04:31 AM
So how is this not a Toyota problem to fix ??? >:( :'(

I thought the same thing. Its a common enough occurrence and obviously the original air box is not fit for purpose.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: chester ver2.0 on August 24, 2020, 08:28:56 AM
Speaking to my best mate today and mentioned about blown turbos on 200 series.  He said it was a known problems and it was due to crappy air filter design.  He has has to fix a few up but he did mention that every time he rebuilt a motor he always tried to talk the owners into getting both turbos replaced.

I agree for the amount of money being spent i would want 2 new turbos in there and for the extra couple of hundred dollars i would replace the alternator and starter motor so she is all new
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 24, 2020, 08:34:16 AM
I agree for the amount of money being spent i would want 2 new turbos in there and for the extra couple of hundred dollars i would replace the alternator and starter motor so she is all new

Plus the aftermarket air box (stainless steel, you beaut, is around $1000...cheap insurance.  Toyota should be supplying these motors at cost at the very least.  So glad I have a Pajero. .

Hopefully Keith MAY have some hope with insurance..APPARENTLY some have when faced with the same issue.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on August 24, 2020, 09:11:12 AM
Not sure why the insurance company should foot the bill for the results of what seems to be a poor design issue....
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 24, 2020, 11:14:44 AM
The compression on two of the passenger side cylinders (where the dust and crank case fumes seem to end up) was down to the low 200's. There was also dust visible on the clean side of the air box.
It's a known fault with the 70 and 200 Series.
Looks like the crank case got pressurised and blew oil through the turbo and the intercooler.
Keith

Keith did they say why the crankcase got pressurized ? Are you running a catch can , EGR plate etc ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: achjimmy on August 24, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
Not sure why the insurance company should foot the bill for the results of what seems to be a poor design issue....

Yup and I am not sure it’s the Worlds worst design more around not being serviced regularly and properly . Toyota don’t replace the fuel or air filter every service  ! The V8 consumes air like no tomorrow on full noise a dirty filter will only encourage it to pull air around the corners imo .  On my series they don’t ever list replacing  the fuel filter till it lights up ! I’ve replaced both each service and the air cleaner I do myself , the shortcut is to leave it connected to the inlet hose and sensor and slide the filter in but I believe you can miss things. The proper way is 3 mins longer and you can ensure it’s seated 100% I also use a bit of vasoline on the rubber (which I do on most rubber seals).

People especially those that don’t own a model are usually the “sky is falling in “ types ! Like the 3litre patrol that had a whole following of baggers (including me at one stage ) but my mate who owned two and put considerable mileages on both with out doing a thing other than servicing changed my tune.

Like most things there’s room for improvement and I think some of the air boxes available are a great option and certainly won’t hurt.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 24, 2020, 11:03:02 PM
! Like the 3litre patrol that had a whole following of baggers (including me at one stage ) but my mate who owned two and put considerable mileages on both with out doing a thing other than servicing changed my tune.



Like all 4wds, only a certain few had problems. I know 2 people who owned 3ltr Patrols....did all the mods to stop it grenading, but both failed. But there is probably plenty still around with high milage with no problems at all ?

A lot of 200 series have died, and dusting is one of the culprits....but a lot of failures are getting blamed on dusting when the engines haven't been pulled down to know for sure. Most dusted engines will still run ok, a bit down on power because of lower compression and/or worn vanes in the turbo......and Keiths 200 doesn't sound like a dusted engine....time will tell ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: chester ver2.0 on August 25, 2020, 08:37:04 AM
Like all 4wds, only a certain few had problems. I know 2 people who owned 3ltr Patrols....did all the mods to stop it grenading, but both failed. But there is probably plenty still around with high milage with no problems at all ?

A lot of 200 series have died, and dusting is one of the culprits....but a lot of failures are getting blamed on dusting when the engines haven't been pulled down to know for sure. Most dusted engines will still run ok, a bit down on power because of lower compression and/or worn vanes in the turbo......and Keiths 200 doesn't sound like a dusted engine....time will tell ?

Yeah gronk i can really resonate with your post. When i worked up in the mines in the Pilbra you would get a flat tyre and the first words out of some some bush mechanics mouth was "she's definitely dusted mate"

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 26, 2020, 01:07:47 PM
I had a good look at the clean side of the air filter and there was dust everywhere, right down the ducting. The new engine should be in some time next week.
So we are stuck in a caravan park with last night at -4 degrees. Our diesel heater furnace that runs the heating system in the van and the bathroom plus hot water has shat itself as well and we are waiting on a replacement for that. Have upgraded from a Chinese Belief furnace to an Eberspatcher at great expense. Fortunately the aircon is keeping us warm, but our composting toilet is not dealing with the cold weather well at all. It will not sicken you with the details.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2020, 03:29:41 PM
last night at -4 degrees. Our diesel heater furnace that runs the heating system in the van and the bathroom plus hot water has shat itself as well and we are waiting on a replacement for that. Have upgraded from a Chinese Belief furnace to an Eberspatcher at great expense.

That's more than a few issues you have had with that! I can understand the wanting to change.

our composting toilet is not dealing with the cold weather well at all. It will not sicken you with the details.
Keith

Without the gory details, Is it just not drying out properly due to the cold?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 26, 2020, 04:45:44 PM
I think the composting loo needs to be at 14 degrees or more to start working. In spite of a warmish bathroom, it is still sitting on a very cold floor. The Polycore is very good and the rest of the walls in the van are comfortable. But I think the floor under the compost container is very cold.

These loos take a while to compost toilet paper. So, as a big toilet paper user, I put in 500 compost worms two days before we left home, without realising that these worms pee 60%  of their body weight every single day. It went great for a few days and the compost level dropped by a good two inches with no loo paper in sight. Then it all turned into a watery mush which had to be carried down and emptied at the dump point. But the fan kept the smell out of the van.

So we started again with fresh peat just before our heater failed and a similar thing happened because the loo was extremely cold. So we emptied it again and did a really deep clean.

A new peat brick plus two 150 watt work lights in the bathroom with the aircon running 24-7 seems to be helping. We are keeping the flap open because water was condensing inside the compost container, agitating more regularly and adding more dry peat if the bed looks a bit too damp. We are also using the amenities block a bit more often.

When we get home I plan to rig up a little 12 volt heating pad under the compost container to keep the lower surface at about 50 degrees. They are cheap and draw only a couple of amps or so, to be used only in cold weather.

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2020, 05:33:08 PM
I think the composting loo needs to be at 14 degrees or more to start working. In spite of a warmish bathroom, it is still sitting on a very cold floor. The Polycore is very good and the rest of the walls in the van are comfortable. But I think the floor under the compost container is very cold.

These loos take a while to compost toilet paper. So, as a big toilet paper user, I put in 500 compost worms two days before we left home, without realising that these worms pee 60%  of their body weight every single day. It went great for a few days and the compost level dropped by a good two inches with no loo paper in sight. Then it all turned into a watery mush which had to be carried down and emptied at the dump point. But the fan kept the smell out of the van.

So we started again with fresh peat just before our heater failed and a similar thing happened because the loo was extremely cold. So we emptied it again and did a really deep clean.

A new peat brick plus two 150 watt work lights in the bathroom with the aircon running 24-7 seems to be helping. We are keeping the flap open because water was condensing inside the compost container, agitating more regularly and adding more dry peat if the bed looks a bit too damp. We are also using the amenities block a bit more often.

When we get home I plan to rig up a little 12 volt heating pad under the compost container to keep the lower surface at about 50 degrees. They are cheap and draw only a couple of amps or so, to be used only in cold weather.

Keith

Some how the topic of conversation has moved from automotive to poo, given the title it maybe isn't that out of place though!

I have read the "humanure handbook" which is pretty much the text book on composting toilets. He is at a pains to say the Natureshead/Airhead type toilets aren't actually composting toilets*, but dry toilets, that is to say that their volume is to small and the contents are in there to short of a time to actually make compost. The take away is that the way they really work is just by drying out the solids, if they smell it's likely that it is too wet. More dry material (ie peat moss) is generally the solution. If you haven't read it, it's a reasonably intresting read.

Another point is it seems a lot of people put the loo paper in a seperate bin, "Europe style" to avoid it bulking up too much in the solids bin.

*
Quote
There’s a big difference between “compost toilets,” “composting toilets,” and “dry toilets.” A dry toilet is any toilet that doesn’t depend on water to function, like a flush toilet does. A "composting toilet" is a misnomer. Toilets don't compost, people do. A "compost toilet" collects organic material for composting elsewhere.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 26, 2020, 06:00:40 PM
I agree with you. The stuff from an Airhead has to be kept for several months before it can be regarded as compost. I also understand that it has to be heated to more than 65 degrees to kill all pathogens.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 26, 2020, 06:58:43 PM
Quote from: tryagain
Some how the topic of conversation has moved from automotive to poo, given the title it maybe isn't that out of place though!
how could that happen around here ??? :D :D : D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 26, 2020, 07:17:21 PM
Shit happens.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on August 27, 2020, 07:54:33 AM
Like all 4wds, only a certain few had problems. I know 2 people who owned 3ltr Patrols....did all the mods to stop it grenading, but both failed. But there is probably plenty still around with high milage with no problems at all ?

A lot of 200 series have died, and dusting is one of the culprits....but a lot of failures are getting blamed on dusting when the engines haven't been pulled down to know for sure. Most dusted engines will still run ok, a bit down on power because of lower compression and/or worn vanes in the turbo......and Keiths 200 doesn't sound like a dusted engine....time will tell ?

I,ll bet it is Gronk.  Keith has already replied stating that there was dust everywhere in the box and down the ducting.  Regardless....I,d still invest in the quality aftermarket airbox.  After all we fit bullbars, temp gauges, tyre pressure monitors, catch cans etc.etc....in an effort to protect our vehicles. Too many examples of the air box failing.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on August 27, 2020, 08:33:27 AM
Might be worth a squizz for the OP. As usual, nothing is ever cut and dried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIEW4Xj-1R0
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: shanegtr on August 27, 2020, 09:53:37 AM
My sister in law had turbo failure on her 200 a few years back. Hers was only 4 yrs old when it happened as well. Im not sure what the end cause of that failure was, but the result was replacement of both turbos.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 27, 2020, 10:11:06 AM
If this is as well known issue as it sounds, shouldn't yota be coming to the party - full or part?
have they been? like a recall and fix ... ??? ???
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Beachman on August 27, 2020, 10:41:23 AM
Question for the mechanically mined of the group. I see that Keith’s cruiser is a 2008 model, so I assume the motors have changed a little over the past 12 years?

1.   Does a new motor drop straight in or does it need work to make it fit?
2.   I also assume the new motors have more anti-pollution gear on them, so is Keith able to remove this as he only needs to obey the pollution rules from 2008?
3.   Do new motors need to be run in, if so how will it affect towing his van home on its maiden run?

I do feel sorry for Keith as I think it’s everyone’s fear of a newish motor (No matter what brand) going bang for whatever reason as you stuck in a position of spending a lot of money to fix it or dropping a lot of money selling a broken car. Neither option is good for your back pocket.

Really hope your luck improves
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 27, 2020, 11:04:21 AM
Question for the mechanically mined of the group. I see that Keith’s cruiser is a 2008 model, so I assume the motors have changed a little over the past 12 years?

1.   Does a new motor drop straight in or does it need work to make it fit?
2.   I also assume the new motors have more anti-pollution gear on them, so is Keith able to remove this as he only needs to obey the pollution rules from 2008?
3.   Do new motors need to be run in, if so how will it affect towing his van home on its maiden run?

I do feel sorry for Keith as I think it’s everyone’s fear of a newish motor (No matter what brand) going bang for whatever reason as you stuck in a position of spending a lot of money to fix it or dropping a lot of money selling a broken car. Neither option is good for your back pocket.

Really hope your luck improves

Motor has not changed at all so it drops straight in

Gear that is attached to it has changed during the years, such as DPF and the sort, his computer will drive the engine as his original one did without a problem

New crate motors come run in, I would still take it a bit easy and run it in as well

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on August 27, 2020, 11:11:03 AM
If this is as well known issue as it sounds, shouldn't yota be coming to the party - full or part?
have they been? like a recall and fix ... ??? ???

It is and the masses have thought about taking it to Toyota, nothing has happend that I am aware of. No recall for the airbox has been done. I believe they have changed the design of the air filter at one stage to make it a bit thicker on the sides and changed the seals.

If you trawl the web you will find many thoughts on this problem with some putting some science to it and others just banging stuff together. I have run mine stock and changed the air filter every service which is above what the service schedule tells us. I am going to change mine every 5k now and also look at mods which can help the sealing capability of the original box. Once out of warranty I may look at an aftermarket air box. I check the clean side of my box regulary and have only had a small amount of dust come through at this time. A pre filter sock on the snorkel is something I am going to run from now on when out in the dust.

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: noel_w on August 27, 2020, 01:30:44 PM
Yeah I know I have a 3.0L Patrol...
But....
I work at an educational institute that teaches apprentices in the mechanical field. We had an apprentice in recently that was overheard saying they replace about 5 or 6 yota V8's a week at their Nth Qld stealership. Take that as you will (with a acre of salt plains) but if it is true it ain't good news for yota. He was also heard saying that the new motors come with a non disclosure statement.
I hope it is sorted for you soon Keith. You need a bit of luck soon. All the best mate.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Beachman on August 27, 2020, 02:06:03 PM
About 2 years ago I heard from a guy who I would call reliable said the Toyota were replacing motors on the 200 series without owners knowing during a service. They just phoned the owners saying parts hadn’t arrived and they need the car overnight and used the time to replace the motor.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 27, 2020, 02:45:17 PM
About 2 years ago I heard from a guy who I would call reliable said the Toyota were replacing motors on the 200 series without owners knowing during a service. .
Sounds like manure.. how do you go with new engine #'s?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 27, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
I,ll bet it is Gronk.  Keith has already replied stating that there was dust everywhere in the box and down the ducting.

He also stated he doesn't do extensive outback travel. Toyota say whatever dust gets past the aircleaner is small enough to not bother the motor. So I would assume ( apart from Toyota being full of it ), that it takes a fairly long time to "dust" the engine, not just a few thousand K's on dirt.
If the vanes on the LH turbo are not badly pitted or worn, there's a fairly good chance the only damage to the engine is wear in the bores of the LH bank....not ideal, but without further wear, the engine would still run normal...with a bit less power of course.

With an aftermarket airbox at approx $1000+, I'll stick with the Donaldson filter I run in mine...no sign of dust so far for the last 2 yrs.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 28, 2020, 03:36:08 AM
Sounds like manure.. how do you go with new engine #'s?

yep
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 28, 2020, 06:43:52 AM
About 2 years ago I heard from a guy who I would call reliable said the Toyota were replacing motors on the 200 series without owners knowing during a service. They just phoned the owners saying parts hadn’t arrived and they need the car overnight and used the time to replace the motor.

Those mechanics are all working for supercars teams......engine change time is supposed to be 20hrs.....that would be a week at a normal Toyo dealership ??   ;D ;D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on August 28, 2020, 07:29:17 AM
About 2 years ago I heard from a guy who I would call reliable said the Toyota were replacing motors on the 200 series without owners knowing during a service. They just phoned the owners saying parts hadn’t arrived and they need the car overnight and used the time to replace the motor.

& miss out on ~$30k! :o

I would think not! >:D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 28, 2020, 11:04:26 AM
I just think Keith is lucky to have 30,000 'emergency' fund to pay for the repairs. Im betting like the grenade patrol's there would be a lot of people having to sell them broken for what ever they can get.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: paul.o on August 28, 2020, 11:53:51 AM
Or took a loan out.....
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: shanegtr on August 28, 2020, 02:06:29 PM
About a year ago I had a look at an engine oil sample for a Prado from a forum member. The level of dirt/dust indications in the oil with only 5000km on it (the oil not the car) was way to high in my opinion. It would be interesting to see what the oils are like in the 200's (if anyone has any oil sample results I'd be interested in having a look)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on August 28, 2020, 02:17:29 PM
Or took a loan out.....

Or 30k of the retirement nest egg gone.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rossm on August 28, 2020, 02:33:49 PM
Or 30k of the retirement nest egg gone.

That's what it would be for me  >:(
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 28, 2020, 04:27:35 PM
About a year ago I had a look at an engine oil sample for a Prado from a forum member. The level of dirt/dust indications in the oil with only 5000km on it (the oil not the car) was way to high in my opinion. It would be interesting to see what the oils are like in the 200's (if anyone has any oil sample results I'd be interested in having a look)

The oil is changed every 5000 km, because I do a lot of city work and was only 1,000 km old when she blew. I doubt there would be anything to learn from it.

And you guys have nailed it: the super has had a bit of a hiding. On the plus side, we were up for new injectors in the next 50,000km as well as a steering rack. That would have been about $11K all up.

Keith

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Spada on August 28, 2020, 04:30:13 PM
On the plus side

Keith

Glass half full hey Keith........... great that you can find a positive from all this  :cup:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on August 28, 2020, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: KeithB
On the plus side, we were up for new injectors in the next 50,000km as well as a steering rack. That would have been about $11K all up.
is that on top of the 26k donk?

Bargain.... Think my next car upgrade will be a Model T, or at the latest a FC Holden....
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 28, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
On the plus side, we were up for new injectors in the next 50,000km as well as a steering rack. That would have been about $11K all up.

Keith

Were the injectors out of spec Keith ? If they were, it can be like driving a time bomb as well !!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: shanegtr on August 28, 2020, 06:38:46 PM
The oil is changed every 5000 km, because I do a lot of city work and was only 1,000 km old when she blew. I doubt there would be anything to learn from it.

Depends on the failure mode - you'd be surprised at what gets through to the oil. But yep, 1000km is a very short run on the oil (even 5000km is a short run on most common rail diesel engines)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on August 29, 2020, 10:12:57 AM
Just going back to our failed diesel heater, we were supposed to receive a new Eberspatcher unit yesterday. But the noggins sent it to our home address in Sydney instead of the advised address at the caravan park in Orange where we are holed up, waiting for the new Landcruiser engine.
Looks like mid next week before they can send a replacement.
Mechanically, this has not been a happy trip.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on August 29, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Just going back to our failed diesel heater, we were supposed to receive a new Eberspatcher unit yesterday. But the noggins sent it to our home address in Sydney instead of the advised address at the caravan park in Orange where we are holed up, waiting for the new Landcruiser engine.
Looks like mid next week before they can send a replacement.
Mechanically, this has not been a happy trip.
Keith

Bought something on ebay a couple of yrs ago for friends in Melbourne.....changed address for the delivery.....guess what happened next time I bought something on ebay ??
Always check the delivery address !!   ;D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 01, 2020, 01:31:57 PM
Just in reference to a previous post, two of the injectors were running out of spec, apparently due to two damaged cylinders.
The drivers side turbo is perfect, but the passenger side one is buggered. They say the engine has definitely been dusted and shows all of the classical signs.
They are currently moving the reusable parts from the old motor onto the new one. The ring gear is good and the starter motor checked out okay. The alternator is going out today for servicing. 
The EGR system is all caked up with carbon which means the chemical cleaning I had done a year ago has done bugger all. Will fit a catch can when we get home.
The reconditioned steering box didn't leave Sydney till yesterday and should be here tomorrow, as should the new diesel heater furnace for the van.
God willing and the floods don't rise, we hope to have the vehicle back to us on Friday.
If not, Denise will get the train home on Sunday or Monday because she has patients to see who can't be put off.
There are currently heaps of city visitors in Orange. There are very few houses to rent and all of the restaurants are booked out well in advance. And we are running out of places to look at.
Keith

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 01, 2020, 02:42:40 PM
Quote from: KeithB
The EGR system is all caked up with carbon which means the chemical cleaning I had done a year ago has done bugger all.
surely it wouldnt 'cake up' that much in a year? maybe they didnt do a proper job..
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 01, 2020, 04:27:33 PM
surely it wouldnt 'cake up' that much in a year? maybe they didnt do a proper job..

Bird I think the product used simply did not work.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 01, 2020, 07:00:01 PM
Bird I think the product used simply did not work.
Keith
was it a send out and get done job or home jobby? Sounded like you meant it was a send out job.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 01, 2020, 07:18:02 PM
My normal mechanic did it during a service. The muck had accumulated where the exhaust gas comes in. Mind you, the throttle response improved markedly after the clean, so it must have achieved something.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 01, 2020, 07:27:08 PM
Just in reference to a previous post, two of the injectors were running out of spec, apparently due to two damaged cylinders.


Probably the other way round. An out of spec injector MAY damage a cylinder, even burn a hole in it, but a cylinder suffering from wear is unlikely to damage the injector.

It's a pity you may not get a chance to post a pic of the LH turbo vanes ?

I suspect your 200 series has been ingesting dust long before you bought it ?

I suspect mine has done the same.....one day I'll attempt to have a look at the LH turbo vanes.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 01, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
You are probably right. But it compression tested perfect when I bought it.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 01, 2020, 10:48:39 PM
You are probably right. But it compression tested perfect when I bought it.
Keith

I thought you said you've only done approx 2000K's on dirt....with a snorkel ?  Just doesn't sound like a dusting...but as you've said, all the symptoms are there ? If you get a chance, ask them for the buggered turbo....would be interesting to find out what's buggered on it ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Me on September 01, 2020, 11:07:37 PM
Lots of comments in this thread bout how it would take longer than a few thousand K's to "dust" an engine.

The truth is that it only takes a few minutes! Or even less, depending on the soil structure in the dust at the time of failure.

Also lots of comments about changing air filters more regularly to overcome dusting - good luck with that!

If the dust is getting past the filter, how is changing the filter more often going to stop it?

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 02, 2020, 06:44:25 AM
Lots of comments in this thread bout how it would take longer than a few thousand K's to "dust" an engine.

The truth is that it only takes a few minutes! Or even less, depending on the soil structure in the dust at the time of failure.

Also lots of comments about changing air filters more regularly to overcome dusting - good luck with that!

If the dust is getting past the filter, how is changing the filter more often going to stop it?

Dust will go through all filters......all depends on how many microns the filter is designed for.
The 200 series.....and a few other 4wds, has a problem with it bypassing the filter via the seals.

There are lots of 200's doing severe outback roads from brand new, and if the dust was causing engine problems that quick, there would be thousands getting new engines under warranty.

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 02, 2020, 08:58:28 AM
I don't think driving down a dusty road with a snorkel fitted is going to dust an engine at all. What I think may have caused the problem was dust from oncoming traffic. At times during our Darling River run, we had to pull over and wait for dust to clear from oncoming traffic so that we could see the road. At other times, the breeze made it possible to keep going, still with plenty of dust. At other times at low speed with a following breeze, we were driving in our own dust. Then there was dust when overtaking very slow vehicles.
At one stage the dust was so think that an emu ran into the side of our camper trailer.
The trip home was mostly on flat roads with a very light trailer, then all slow city work while I finished building the Glamper.
The engine then failed the first time it was asked to deliver maximum power with 2.5 tonnes in tow.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: edz on September 02, 2020, 09:33:48 AM
Bottom line is it is being fixed, Be it an expensive one ....
It is a mechanical thing and mechanical things fail .. For what ever reason it has failed after xx amount of time ..
It will be replaced with another mechanical thing that will eventualy fail to some degree possibly at an earlier or later time,  who knows ..
All you can do is set it up / service it correctly to best practice specs, treat it well and use what ever life the unit gives before it fails again .
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on September 02, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
Bottom line is it is being fixed, Be it an expensive one ....
It is a mechanical thing and mechanical things fail .. For what ever reason it has failed after xx amount of time ..
It will be replaced with another mechanical thing that will eventualy fail to some degree possibly at an earlier or later time,  who knows ..
All you can do is set it up / service it correctly to best practice specs, treat it well and use what ever life the unit gives before it fails again .

Yep. Fix it, and move on.... :cup: :cup:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 02, 2020, 10:17:29 AM
Quote from: gronk
there would be thousands getting new engines under warranty.
surely that would warrant a recall and modification... ??? then again grenade.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 02, 2020, 10:40:55 AM
surely that would warrant a recall and modification... ??? then again grenade.

Not really if you look at the thousands of landcruisers made
Only about 10% of those would do any sort of decent work on the dirt
Only about 1% of those 10% would experience what appears to be a pretty specific mix of conditions required to cause dusting
Only 1% of that 1% may experience actual dusting

While the result is catastrophic if you look at the above likelihood the risk is still way to low to warrant some sort of recall or acknowledgment
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 02, 2020, 10:45:51 AM
Not really if you look at the thousands of landcruisers made
Only about 10% of those would do any sort of decent work on the dirt
Only about 1% of those 10% would experience what appears to be a pretty specific mix of conditions required to cause dusting
Only 1% of that 1% may experience actual dusting

While the result is catastrophic if you look at the above likelihood the risk is still way to low to warrant some sort of recall or acknowledgment
Fair call on the small % used offroad, i was thinking more preventative for yota ... would be cheaper to replace airboxes than engines
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: 4runnernomore on September 02, 2020, 12:52:28 PM
After having to fork out all the coin for another motor, will you fit one of the new aftermarket filter housings that is supposed to provide a dust free seal?.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 02, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
Yes I will order a new air box when we get back. Probably from Moonlight Engineering. If anyone has any better suggestions I am all ears.
When the new engine goes in it will have a catch can fitted as well.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on September 02, 2020, 04:24:28 PM
Yes I will order a new air box when we get back. Probably from Moonlight Engineering. If anyone has any better suggestions I am all ears.
When the new engine goes in it will have a catch can fitted as well.
Keith

Will be good for many years to come.  Now you will have to get out more to make it all worthwhile.  Glad its coming together for you.  :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 02, 2020, 04:44:15 PM
At last some b\good news. Our Chinese heater furnace failed again after two previous trips to the factory, this time with a dud flame failure devise. So we bit the bullet and odered an Eberspatcher, from which the Chinese Belief unit was poorly copied.

The new Eberspatcher arrived this morning and it is now in and running, using the old wiring loom, circuit breaker and all.
It is only 4KW compared with the 5KW Belief unit, but seems to cycle up from cold much faster. Maybe German Kilowatts are bigger than Chinese ones.
It is also vastly quieter. There is no ticking fuel pump and the exhaust noise is considerably less than a typical roof mounted RV aircon. 
If it hangs in there, I could not be more pleased.

Now waiting for some good news on the 200 Series engine......
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Pottsy on September 02, 2020, 05:00:59 PM
You’re due a break Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 02, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Turned the corner

GG

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 02, 2020, 06:32:15 PM
Quote from: KeithB
The new Eberspatcher arrived this morning and it is now in and running, using the old wiring loom, circuit breaker and all.
It is only 4KW compared with the 5KW Belief unit, but seems to cycle up from cold much faster.
Got any photos of the unit and in use ??
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 02, 2020, 07:46:01 PM
Yes I will order a new air box when we get back. Probably from Moonlight Engineering. If anyone has any better suggestions I am all ears.
When the new engine goes in it will have a catch can fitted as well.
Keith

Are you getting a new Toyota engine ? If so it will come with warranty, but the downside is they won't warrant it if you use an aftermarket airbox.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 02, 2020, 07:47:01 PM
I am on my laptop using my phone as a hotspot. But will try to figure out how to do photos. Photobucket is a pain in the bum.
It's a simple matter to post photos on other forums. But this one is a bit of a bummer. But I'll try.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 02, 2020, 07:48:37 PM
Are you getting a new Toyota engine ? If so it will come with warranty, but the downside is they won't warrant it if you use an aftermarket airbox.

There is one aftermarket airbox that uses the standard Toyota filter. Might have a look at that.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: bmwfreak on September 02, 2020, 08:09:46 PM
I am on my laptop using my phone as a hotspot. But will try to figure out how to do photos. Photobucket is a pain in the bum.
It's a simple matter to post photos on other forums. But this one is a bit of a bummer. But I'll try.
Keith
Hi Keith, I am in the same boat, but generally it is the JPG size limitation on the forum. Any time I want to post a photo I have to go through Tapatalk, which giveS you the option of altering the photo size, on the fly.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: garryc on September 02, 2020, 08:51:54 PM
I'm not as clever as others.
I email the pic to myself in a smaller format. Save said pic to my laptop then copy pic to forum
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 02, 2020, 10:24:14 PM
Don't you have to upload it to some URL and then quote the link with the URL nonsense?
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: 4runnernomore on September 02, 2020, 11:13:12 PM
There is one aftermarket airbox that uses the standard Toyota filter. Might have a look at that.
Keith

Wouldn’t they have to prove that the air filter box was the culprit?..
There’s enough info out there to prove the Toyota. Box is faulty as well.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on September 03, 2020, 06:27:11 AM
Wouldn’t they have to prove that the air filter box was the culprit?..
There’s enough info out there to prove the Toyota. Box is faulty as well.

Its a known issue that the original box can lead to dusting. Fitting a box that has been designed especially to stop this known issue is a good thing. .  Wouldnt make any difference to the warranty anyways...toyota dont acknowledge the air box issue!!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 03, 2020, 06:44:04 AM
Its a known issue that the original box can lead to dusting. Fitting a box that has been designed especially to stop this known issue is a good thing. .  Wouldnt make any difference to the warranty anyways...toyota dont acknowledge the air box issue!!

I get where you're coming from, but they will any excuse to refuse warranty.

It's not hard to check for dust getting past the seal......I use a Donaldson filter which is approx 2mm thicker in the seal area and supposedly better in the filtering department, and I haven't had any dust get past the filter.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: austastar on September 03, 2020, 10:19:56 AM
Hi garryc
    The difference is that by using a photo hosting site you provide (by using a piece of code to tell the browser where to find it) a link for the browser to display the image at a precise position in your post where you want it.
If you attach an image, it will display at the end of the post.
Most forums set a size limit on images, some will neatly resize them, others may struggle to display them.
A good rule of thumb is to keep them smaller than 800x600 pixels.
Cheers

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 03, 2020, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: gronk
I get where you're coming from, but they will any excuse to refuse warranty.
specially if it saves them 30,000...

if they dont admit theres an issue, changing airbox gives them that out.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gasgaschris on September 03, 2020, 10:55:37 AM
From what I can tell, the issue is likely (deliberately) confused by Toyota.

The box is fine, the filter is fine, the system as a whole is faulty. They've always got an 'out' on this - simply that the filter in use at the time of the ingestion of the dust was not genuine filter, and as such is not their product to warrant. Given that there is no way to prove what was in the car at the time, and there's no advantage to Toyotas overall sales income to be gained by paying for the fix, the problem will sit with you.

Your warranty is with your dealer however, supported by the importer. Suing the dealer, assuming the dealer did the maintenance - that may be a more promising avenue..

If you fitted your own filters, I don't see much opportunity to get anything back.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 03, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
I like the look of these, have to do some more research

https://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/patrol-docta-toyota-landcruiser-vdj-200-series-v8 (https://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/patrol-docta-toyota-landcruiser-vdj-200-series-v8)

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: loanrangie on September 03, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Download irfanview, lets you resize an image by pixel or by percentage.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 03, 2020, 06:56:52 PM
I like the look of these, have to do some more research

https://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/patrol-docta-toyota-landcruiser-vdj-200-series-v8 (https://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/patrol-docta-toyota-landcruiser-vdj-200-series-v8)

GG

Still uses the genuine filter...and in this case a crappy Ryco.

Lots on the 200 series facebook site seem to promote Moonlight industries airbox. They use a different type of filter.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: warrenm on September 04, 2020, 07:50:44 AM
Pixresizer is another program that I find works well.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 04, 2020, 04:21:26 PM
Pixresizer is another program that I find works well.

I'm on this crappy windows 10 and there is a resizer in photos.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 04, 2020, 08:04:34 PM
Got some more unhappy news on my busted LC200 engine today. The new engine was all set to go in yesterday. But they found a seized and busted bolt on an engine mount (don't ask me to explain the details) and had to order a new engine mount which won't arrive till Monday.
Why they didn't notice it earlier I do not know.
So It looks like I'll be stuck here till Wednesday when I hope to get the car back. Then I'll get a few miles up for a day or two to make sure everything is okay before I head back to Sydney.
Denise flies home on Monday, so I will be at the mercy of my own cooking.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on September 04, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Got some more unhappy news on my busted LC200 engine today. The new engine was all set to go in yesterday. But they found a seized and busted bolt on an engine mount (don't ask me to explain the details) and had to order a new engine mount which won't arrive till Monday.
Why they didn't notice it earlier I do not know.
So It looks like I'll be stuck here till Wednesday when I hope to get the car back. Then I'll get a few miles up for a day or two to make sure everything is okay before I head back to Sydney.
Denise flies home on Monday, so I will be at the mercy of my own cooking.
Keith
   You,ll be leading guided tours soon with the amount of time you will have spent there!
At least you still have a sense of humor! 
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: glenm64 on September 04, 2020, 09:23:05 PM
You keep hanging in there Keith. Hopefully it will all be sorted and your on the road again.


Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 07, 2020, 04:18:58 PM
I just checked with the mechanic and one engine mount needs to be replaced and another has a broken bolt. So we are waiting on parts but still hopeful for Wednesday.
In the meantime I have been reading everything I can on Landcruiser air box failures, which seem to be many and varied. Several solutions have been offered from tightening the clamps, to putting grease on the seals to adding some hardware store sealing rubber. None is completely effective at stopping air bypassing the filter.

I think the only permanent solution is an aftermarket air box.

In the meantime I have been reading up on the efficiency of the the air filter element when I came upon this, which makes interesting reading.

https://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html (https://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html)

I was going to fit a K&N filter instead of the standard one. Not now.

Keith

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: edz on September 07, 2020, 05:59:22 PM
World reknown race engine builder David Vizard on K&N Filters  .. 4:30 mark to 13:30 of the vid ..                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow5cGV7bXCw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow5cGV7bXCw)     :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 07, 2020, 06:47:35 PM


I think the only permanent solution is an aftermarket air box.



Keith

And even then, they are not all the same. Some use the OEM filter, which wouldn't be my choice, and others use a bigger filter...not sure what brand.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 07, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
World reknown race engine builder David Vizard on K&N Filters  .. 4:30 mark to 13:30 of the vid ..                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow5cGV7bXCw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow5cGV7bXCw)     :cheers:

There is no doubt that K&N filters are the first choice for race cars and high performance vehicles with short service intervals that don't see a lot of dust. I put one on my aircon intake and doubled the air flow. So there's a big tick for air flow.

But there are holes in the filters that you can see through. The answer is that these holes are full of tiny oily and statically charged vibrating fibres that catch the dust. If that's the case, where do they store that dust?

If any filter is covered in very course dust it may well filter better with no impedance in flow. I'll leave that question to the theorists. But, according to another piece by Curtin University particles as small at 0.3 microns can cause engine damage. A human hair is 50 microns and the human eye can only detect 40 microns. Yet these wavy fibres are supposed to be catching and storing all of this stuff which is passing the filter at a huge rate of knots. That's bugger all on a race engine, but a possible problem on an off roader over several hundred thousand kays.

I think the independent tests I quoted earlier are far more credible for an Australian 4WD touring environment. The K&N was rated best on air flow but worst on dust removal efficiency, worst on dust holding ability and the easiest to plug up. This is under repeatable standard laboratory conditions.

That's why I have asked the mechanic replacing my dusted motor to fit a standard filter, rather than the K&N he recommended. A new air box comes next.

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: fc_holden on September 07, 2020, 07:24:31 PM
Check out Project 200 tests on air filters on YouTube very interesting
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 07, 2020, 08:11:59 PM
Check out Project 200 tests on air filters on YouTube very interesting

It was interesting indeed. It was  a shame he did not test more brands. But his talcum powder could not duplicate very fine dust. Other tests show the effectiveness or otherwise of grease and self adhesive sealing tape.
I think the plastic air box on the 200 Series probably distorts under suction and no amount of mucking around with grease or tape will change that.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 07, 2020, 09:04:22 PM
I'm not sure if the standard airbox distorts or in some cases just doesn't seal properly around the circumference of the filter ??

I'm using a donaldson filter, which is approx 2mm thicker across the rubber seal and seems to be working OK...so far. But I haven't tested it out in real dusty roads like the outback yet. The Donaldson filter is supposed to be more efficient than the Toyo one as well ?
https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/technical-articles/air-filter-efficiency/ (https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/technical-articles/air-filter-efficiency/)

An interesting read, because it goes against the micron size that so many people talk about. Merely because they don't quote micron size, only efficiency !!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 07, 2020, 09:37:29 PM
It's all very confusing for the layman. Micron size Vs efficiency?
I don't think there is too much doubt that Donaldsons are the best around. I wanted to use the Toyota filter on a new filter box to preserve the new engine warranty. I might add a cyclone as well because the Project 200 test showed that it removed 70% of the dust before it gets to the filter.
But I'd be happier with a Donaldson.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 07, 2020, 11:09:23 PM
Lots of comp wannabes, and actual racers use K&N Style as they want more power, and most rebuild engines more often than I do....

There were  few dudes did tests on them years ago on patrol forum, Nissan one came out best, so I've used them ever since - happy with em.

YMMV
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bigfish on September 08, 2020, 06:32:01 AM
Lots of comp wannabes, and actual racers use K&N Style as they want more power, and most rebuild engines more often than I do....

There were  few dudes did tests on them years ago on patrol forum, Nissan one came out best, so I've used them ever since - happy with em.

YMMV

Got quite a few mates who road race big capacity bikes.  Most use k&n when on the track.  Their own bikes (street riding) all use standard filter.  Road racing the guys are trying to get maximum power...hence the better flowing k&n. Not much chance of sucking in dust as well being all bitumen tracks. .  I have a k&n which I dont use now..back to standard Pajero filter and for real dusty areas...foam sock over snorkel intake.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 08, 2020, 06:41:29 AM
It's all very confusing for the layman. Micron size Vs efficiency?
I don't think there is too much doubt that Donaldsons are the best around. I wanted to use the Toyota filter on a new filter box to preserve the new engine warranty. I might add a cyclone as well because the Project 200 test showed that it removed 70% of the dust before it gets to the filter.
But I'd be happier with a Donaldson.
Keith

If it was me, I'd run a Donaldson filter, and keep a Toyo one as a spare, if it ever had to go back to Toyota, the genuine would go in.

And after the 1st day in dust, I'd pull the airbox cover and check for dust.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: stephenh1235 on September 08, 2020, 09:46:55 AM
Alternative solution (Tongue in cheek!)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Beachman on September 08, 2020, 09:48:46 AM
On the GX (standard) 200 series I believe they come standard with a Toyota snorkel which has the big ugly black box on top. I presume this is has another filter inside?
So do Toyota think that the GX travels more on dusty roads more than a GLX which means they are aware of the dusting issue, so by putting 2 filters on  it, does this reduce/fix the apparent issue?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 08, 2020, 01:56:45 PM
On the GX (standard) 200 series I believe they come standard with a Toyota snorkel which has the big ugly black box on top. I presume this is has another filter inside?
So do Toyota think that the GX travels more on dusty roads more than a GLX which means they are aware of the dusting issue, so by putting 2 filters on  it, does this reduce/fix the apparent issue?

I dont think there is an actual filter element in it. I thought is was just some plastic cyclonic style thing
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: MrCruza on September 08, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
I dont think there is an actual filter element in it. I thought is was just some plastic cyclonic style thing

And technically its a "Raised Air Intake", not a snorkel. It's not watertight.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: shanegtr on September 08, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
It's all very confusing for the layman. Micron size Vs efficiency?
Filters have a beta rating at specified micron sizes. Theres a little bit of reading here (this is talking about oil filtration, but its exactly the same for air):
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency
Just google filter beta ratings and you'll have plenty of material available to put you to sleep. The important thing with a filter rating is they should have a beta rating at a specified micron size (some filters will have several beta ratings for different sizes).

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 10, 2020, 08:09:54 AM
My LC 200 is due back on Friday (tomorrow), God willing and the floods don't rise. They started with a crate engine already on the workshop floor when the vehicle was towed in. They knew that my wife and I were waiting in a local caravan park so that we could continue our trip.
This is a specialist truck and 4WD repair shop with what they claimed was extensive experience with this model Landcruiser, not some back yarder. They said that, if things went well, the job would take five working days.
However, this engine change will have taken a full three weeks to complete.
Can anyone top that record?
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 10, 2020, 09:36:55 AM
My LC 200 is due back on Friday (tomorrow), God willing and the floods don't rise. They started with a crate engine already on the workshop floor when the vehicle was towed in. They knew that my wife and I were waiting in a local caravan park so that we could continue our trip.
This is a specialist truck and 4WD repair shop with what they claimed was extensive experience with this model Landcruiser, not some back yarder. They said that, if things went well, the job would take five working days.
However, this engine change will have taken a full three weeks to complete.
Can anyone top that record?
Keith
mate dropped his Patrol in for a Duramax SWAP - not complete conversion from scratch at a bloke he thought was a mate's work shop.
Over 2 yrs later he got back a rolling shell minus lots of his expensive goodies, spotties, winch, tyres etc... so did another mate at the same workshop in Pakenham Vic who turned out to be scamming dozens of people...
He had 1 engine he would swap around and take photos in 'your' car showing states of work, then remove it put it in the next car and rinse and repeat. Rumours were in the 7 figures he scammed people out of.
https://www.patrol4x4.com/threads/due-to-popular-demand.77377/page-27 (https://www.patrol4x4.com/threads/due-to-popular-demand.77377/page-27)

pigeon said:
Hi Vince,
Any update on the Duramax???

.... yeah! its flying along. 12 months to this stage.

this took 12 mths.
(https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb185/VinceGU05/Duramax%20conversion/2F721A7F-E1C5-4F4D-A87C-3135BC5A39C2_zpsf676q1y6.jpg)


how he got it back, with no engine/box/nothing.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180926/6542f170030005734010264cce90b631.jpg)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: edz on September 10, 2020, 10:04:34 AM
Admittedly not complicated with high tech EFI and such , But it only took me a week part time to convert a different brand engine into one of my 4WD's , Mounts, gearbox adaptors etc all built and machined from scratch to daily driver ..
For a specialist shop with all the gear and a straight forward swap, You would think there shouldnt have been more than 18 > 20 hrs worth of work in your job, one engine out 8 hrs / strip n fit bits 2 hrs / refit engine 8 hrs / run and checks 2hrs .. If everthing was there to do it ..
.. granted though depending on how busy they are they wouldnt have been on it alone the whole time ..

EDIT: Forgot about the MTA book allowance .. Where the guide book allows so much time for work to be carried out / charged  for each part of the exercise . IE to remove a manifold =4 hrs + refit = 4 hrs etc ..
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: shanegtr on September 10, 2020, 11:17:20 AM
However, this engine change will have taken a full three weeks to complete.
Can anyone top that record?
Keith
My sister in laws 200 took 6 weeks to replace two turbos. But they do live in Gove so I think about 3 weeks of that was waiting for parts to be barged in
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Pauloz on September 10, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Hi Keith,

Been watching from the sidelines, hang in there!

Stumbled across mention of air filters in this clip today. Not sure if it's been covered already or suits your model but thought I'd pass it on.

See round the 6:40 mark for the terrain tamer stainless gasket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Nr_jwmrAw

Youtube: AUSSIE DREAM TOURER WEIGHT and FINAL REVEAL

Hope everything's good tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: bmwfreak on September 10, 2020, 02:30:37 PM
My experience with Toyota, after reading this thread.


Hi,

I am contacting Toyota (Australia?) to notify them that I have an issue with my 2019 LC78. We completed a 320km route, which included 200km of gravel road. Vehicle performed on the gravel road as well as I had anticipated, and I have no complaints pertaining to its handling, etc.
What I do have a problem with, however, is that this recently serviced vehicle shows evidence of dust in the engine side of the air box, ie it has bypassed the air filter and allowed deposits of dust within the air box on the engine side. To my mind this should not be possible with a factory snorkel and OE air box.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/11653b21f90d5fe7708e21e9b3a2a086.jpg)
Please advise what Toyota (Australia?) are willing to do re this matter, as I believe dust ingested into the motor and turbo is cause of catastrophic failure.

Regards,
Bruce Avery

I received a phone call from Toyota customer service explaining that thorough testing had taken place, by both Toyota Australia and Toyota Japan re the air box in the 4.5ltr V8. They could find no fault with the part in question, assuring me that if scheduled servicing was carried, as per the warranty booklet, then there won’t be an issue. I asked the CS respondent for this information in an emailed confirmation, which he was quite happy to do.

Toyota’s email response follows
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/4860cbac115123f67747045276dc9f2c.jpg)

I won’t add to this apart from advising that today we did another 150km of dirt, with a small amount (maybe 20 vehicles) of traffic travelling in the opposite direction, including a couple of 4 trailer road trains. On checking the air box on arrival at Burketown, I found no dust in the engine side of the intake.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 10, 2020, 05:55:45 PM
Hi Keith,

Been watching from the sidelines, hang in there!

Stumbled across mention of air filters in this clip today. Not sure if it's been covered already or suits your model but thought I'd pass it on.

See round the 6:40 mark for the terrain tamer stainless gasket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Nr_jwmrAw

Youtube: AUSSIE DREAM TOURER WEIGHT and FINAL REVEAL

Hope everything's good tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul.


This looks a lot cheaper than a $1000+ aftermarket air box. I think I'll order one as soon as I get home.
Many thanks
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 10, 2020, 06:03:38 PM

This looks a lot cheaper than a $1000+ aftermarket air box. I think I'll order one as soon as I get home.
Many thanks
Keith

This has been talked about in other forums and some say it's a good idea and others say the dust will still go straight thru the filter ( not past the seal area ).
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: shanegtr on September 10, 2020, 06:53:07 PM

Toyota’s email response follows
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/4860cbac115123f67747045276dc9f2c.jpg)

Just gotta love toyota refering to their customers as guests :-\
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: loanrangie on September 11, 2020, 09:55:18 AM
My experience with Toyota, after reading this thread.


Hi,

I am contacting Toyota (Australia?) to notify them that I have an issue with my 2019 LC78. We completed a 320km route, which included 200km of gravel road. Vehicle performed on the gravel road as well as I had anticipated, and I have no complaints pertaining to its handling, etc.
What I do have a problem with, however, is that this recently serviced vehicle shows evidence of dust in the engine side of the air box, ie it has bypassed the air filter and allowed deposits of dust within the air box on the engine side. To my mind this should not be possible with a factory snorkel and OE air box.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/11653b21f90d5fe7708e21e9b3a2a086.jpg)
Please advise what Toyota (Australia?) are willing to do re this matter, as I believe dust ingested into the motor and turbo is cause of catastrophic failure.

Regards,
Bruce Avery

I received a phone call from Toyota customer service explaining that thorough testing had taken place, by both Toyota Australia and Toyota Japan re the air box in the 4.5ltr V8. They could find no fault with the part in question, assuring me that if scheduled servicing was carried, as per the warranty booklet, then there won’t be an issue. I asked the CS respondent for this information in an emailed confirmation, which he was quite happy to do.

Toyota’s email response follows
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/4860cbac115123f67747045276dc9f2c.jpg)

I won’t add to this apart from advising that today we did another 150km of dirt, with a small amount (maybe 20 vehicles) of traffic travelling in the opposite direction, including a couple of 4 trailer road trains. On checking the air box on arrival at Burketown, I found no dust in the engine side of the intake.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

that is probably the cleanest filter housing i have ever seen.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 11, 2020, 10:44:37 AM
My experience with Toyota, after reading this thread.


Hi,

I am contacting Toyota (Australia?) to notify them that I have an issue with my 2019 LC78. We completed a 320km route, which included 200km of gravel road. Vehicle performed on the gravel road as well as I had anticipated, and I have no complaints pertaining to its handling, etc.
What I do have a problem with, however, is that this recently serviced vehicle shows evidence of dust in the engine side of the air box, ie it has bypassed the air filter and allowed deposits of dust within the air box on the engine side. To my mind this should not be possible with a factory snorkel and OE air box.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/11653b21f90d5fe7708e21e9b3a2a086.jpg)
Please advise what Toyota (Australia?) are willing to do re this matter, as I believe dust ingested into the motor and turbo is cause of catastrophic failure.

Regards,
Bruce Avery

I received a phone call from Toyota customer service explaining that thorough testing had taken place, by both Toyota Australia and Toyota Japan re the air box in the 4.5ltr V8. They could find no fault with the part in question, assuring me that if scheduled servicing was carried, as per the warranty booklet, then there won’t be an issue. I asked the CS respondent for this information in an emailed confirmation, which he was quite happy to do.

Toyota’s email response follows
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200910/4860cbac115123f67747045276dc9f2c.jpg)

I won’t add to this apart from advising that today we did another 150km of dirt, with a small amount (maybe 20 vehicles) of traffic travelling in the opposite direction, including a couple of 4 trailer road trains. On checking the air box on arrival at Burketown, I found no dust in the engine side of the intake.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mate that is not even dirty.....
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 11, 2020, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: loanrangie
that is probably the cleanest filter housing i have ever seen.

x 2  :cup:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 11, 2020, 11:54:21 AM
Here is mine after 190k

GG(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200911/cced77f0bf898f196c60e67119a912d1.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: bmwfreak on September 11, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
that is probably the cleanest filter housing i have ever seen.
I’m not surprised, the vehicle has only covered 19,000km, all but 300km on sealed surfaces. If I were to extrapolate the 200km of dirt in 19,000km out to 2,000km in 190,000km, I’m sure it would look similar to GG’s photo :-*. Although having done an additional 400km since the photo, it is no worse.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 11, 2020, 07:20:56 PM
After three weeks and one day, I was supposed to pick up my LC200 at 2:00pm today. For those who have not been following this thread, a new crate engine was on the workshop floor when the vehicle arrived on a tilt tray, three weeks ago yesterday.
They called at 1:00pm to advise that there had been a delay due to a coolant leak.
Turns out the mechanic doing the work had forgotten to tighten the coolant line on the drivers side turbo before the engine went back in.
The connection is pretty much inaccessible with the engine in. God only knows what else he has forgotten to tighten up.
Even if they do manage to fix it tomorrow, there is nobody around to re-gas the aircon.
The boss is not responding to text messages.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: tryagain on September 11, 2020, 08:39:21 PM
After three weeks and one day, I was supposed to pick up my LC200 at 2:00pm today. For those who have not been following this thread, a new crate engine was on the workshop floor when the vehicle arrived on a tilt tray, three weeks ago yesterday.
They called at 1:00pm to advise that there had been a delay due to a coolant leak.
Turns out the mechanic doing the work had forgotten to tighten the coolant line on the drivers side turbo before the engine went back in.
The connection is pretty much inaccessible with the engine in. God only knows what else he has forgotten to tighten up.
Even if they do manage to fix it tomorrow, there is nobody around to re-gas the aircon.
The boss is not responding to text messages.
Keith

How much deposit did they require?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on September 11, 2020, 08:47:30 PM
.....
The boss is not responding to text messages.
.....

Very disappointing and frustrating....

Does his brother own the caravan park??
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on September 14, 2020, 02:25:21 PM
Hope you get some positive news soon Keith....

 :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 14, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
It's being road tested right now and they just have to put the bash plates back on. I'll give them plenty of time to make sure it's right and pick it up mid morning tomorrow.
Then I'll spend a couple of days road testing before it goes back to Sydney.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Spada on September 14, 2020, 03:27:56 PM
Good news Keith, bet you'll be glad to be under your own steam again.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 14, 2020, 05:06:09 PM
Quote from: KeithB
It's being road tested right now and they just have to put the bash plates back on. I'll give them plenty of time to make sure it's right and pick it up mid morning tomorrow.
Then I'll spend a couple of days road testing before it goes back to Sydney
Bout time you had some good news.
How do you go with warranty/issues with it back in Shitney?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 14, 2020, 05:45:04 PM
Bout time you had some good news.
How do you go with warranty/issues with it back in Shitney?

The engine itself comes with a written Toyota Warranty. But the workmanship does not. That's what I am going to have to work out with the shop up here when I pick it up tomorrow.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 14, 2020, 06:13:31 PM
Just about there Keith,  few days of running around and it should go a lot better than before. Good luck with the pickup tomorrow

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 14, 2020, 07:48:18 PM
Was talking to a friend who replaced his motor in his own garage. Apart from many stories about the small setbacks etc, he mentioned the 5hrs to reinstall the inlet manifold......then filled the engine with coolant, and it leaked straight back out from the inlet valley.....5hrs to remove inlet manifold again, found a hose that wasn't even connected, connected up, then 5hrs to reinstall manifold again.

That was just one story !! 

If mine ever needs a new engine, there's no chance of doing it myself !!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 14, 2020, 11:03:14 PM
Quote from: gronk
there's no chance of doing it myself !!
theres no chance i could afford to pay someone, nor pay for the engine.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: geopaj on September 15, 2020, 07:45:30 AM
It's being road tested right now and they just have to put the bash plates back on. I'll give them plenty of time to make sure it's right and pick it up mid morning tomorrow.
Then I'll spend a couple of days road testing before it goes back to Sydney.
Keith

Good luck and best wishes for the collection mate. We’re all sending positive vibes
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: JD-120 on September 15, 2020, 07:48:48 AM
this is a big thread and ive skimmed a few pages and looked at pics. sorry if its off topic but it seems like the right path, possibly slightly off topic

I got a 120 prado, did cape last year. Had a pre trip service done, everything in check. Toyota replaced air filter, happy days.

Fast forward 2 weeks and 200clicks up the PDR and engine goes into limp mode. Open up the air filter and it is chock-ablock full of dust. Clean it out, reset the system alert and continue on my way north, checking the air filter regularly from now on.
.
On the way home, about 600km from home actually, on the highway, engine blows, piston. Black smoke everywhere. Fast forwadr 8 weeks and I have a new engine, turbo and alternator, however my credit card is 16k lighter.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: silverfox1111 on September 15, 2020, 02:47:27 PM
hope she's all good now, Keith! You've been on quite a journey to get to this stage.
Bet she'll be a nervous drive up mt Victoria & those long climbs around Bathurst on your way back.
Good luck.
Silverfox
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 15, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
theres no chance i could afford to pay someone, nor pay for the engine.

I'm over 60 and can access my super....but that isn't a withdrawal I ever want to make !!   :'( :'(
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 15, 2020, 06:42:13 PM
Got it back today and took it for a return run from Orange to Lithgow (226km) without the van. Stuck to the speed limits in S6 mostly on cruise control. No issues at all with the engine. No error codes or anything like that.
Will try the same tomorrow with the van in tow in S4 and S5 before I take it back for final inspection. Did 12.3L/100km for the return trip, which is good for a vehicle with all the crap that mine has on it.
The aircon buttons have all gone haywire, so I will get them to see what their fancy code reader says.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 15, 2020, 07:17:08 PM


GG

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rags on September 15, 2020, 07:44:13 PM
this is a big thread and ive skimmed a few pages and looked at pics. sorry if its off topic but it seems like the right path, possibly slightly off topic

I got a 120 prado, did cape last year. Had a pre trip service done, everything in check. Toyota replaced air filter, happy days.

Fast forward 2 weeks and 200clicks up the PDR and engine goes into limp mode. Open up the air filter and it is chock-ablock full of dust. Clean it out, reset the system alert and continue on my way north, checking the air filter regularly from now on.


.
On the way home, about 600km from home actually, on the highway, engine blows, piston. Black smoke everywhere. Fast forwadr 8 weeks and I have a new engine, turbo and alternator, however my credit card is 16k lighter.

Bad luck JD, did you tow much with the Prado and towing when it detonated?
Always worries me when I hear of this happening.
We had a similar experience with our CX 5 diesel but fortunately Mazda came to the party even though it was 3 years  and 60000km over or out of warranty, fitting a new complete engine with new everything turbos , injectors etc.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 15, 2020, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: rags
... fortunately Mazda came to the party even though it was 3 years  and 60000km over or out of warranty, fitting a new complete engine with new everything turbos , injectors etc.
**** that would be a rare win!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on September 15, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Bad luck JD, did you tow much with the Prado and towing when it detonated?
Always worries me when I hear of this happening.
We had a similar experience with our CX 5 diesel but fortunately Mazda came to the party even though it was 3 years  and 60000km over or out of warranty, fitting a new complete engine with new everything turbos , injectors etc.
Mazda’s increasing oil level trick?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: rags on September 15, 2020, 09:35:54 PM
**** that would be a rare win!
I understand it is not uncommon on this car if it has been regularly serviced with Mazda. Ours was towed in late one afternoon and by 11.00 the following morning we were advised that it was being replaced, without a word or question from us.
I think they were aware of a problem and fixed it somas not to draw attention to themselves.
Not long after we had a recall which we didn’t need as we had a new motor but I understand it was a tech for the engine failure. What’s more the new engine came with a 40000km warranty.
I can honestly say we have had terrific service from Mazda, even today it was in for a service today and needed a rear diff Bush and  after a bit of comparative pricing they reduced the bill down by $400 to match Fulcrom suspension price to fix.
I would happily buy another Mazda.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: JD-120 on September 16, 2020, 06:42:54 AM
Bad luck JD, did you tow much with the Prado and towing when it detonated?
Always worries me when I hear of this happening.
We had a similar experience with our CX 5 diesel but fortunately Mazda came to the party even though it was 3 years  and 60000km over or out of warranty, fitting a new complete engine with new everything turbos , injectors etc.

yeah we were towing about 2T when it happened. Is  diesel, had about 220k on the clock. its an 08 model, so no chance of Toyota paying for it unfortunatley as this was only just last year. It hurt at the time, was pretty stressfull  end to a bloody terrific trip away.  Im just happy that it happened on the way home, on the highway and in cell phone reception. Could of been a whole lot painfull.

side note: I thought I had the top cover of RACQ being Ultimate. apparently theres a higher cover called platinum and this is the cover that also gets your van home. I ended up having pay to get the van sent home. seperate to the prado
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on September 16, 2020, 07:02:58 AM
Got it back today

Yay! ;D

Good to hear, Keith :cup:

Fingers crossed for your trip home ;D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Pauloz on September 16, 2020, 07:22:35 AM
Excellent, great to hear!!   :D :D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: noel_w on September 16, 2020, 08:51:35 AM
yeah we were towing about 2T when it happened. Is  diesel, had about 220k on the clock. its an 08 model, so no chance of Toyota paying for it unfortunatley as this was only just last year. It hurt at the time, was pretty stressfull  end to a bloody terrific trip away.  Im just happy that it happened on the way home, on the highway and in cell phone reception. Could of been a whole lot painfull.

side note: I thought I had the top cover of RACQ being Ultimate. apparently theres a higher cover called platinum and this is the cover that also gets your van home. I ended up having pay to get the van sent home. seperate to the prado


Thats interesting, I have Ultimate cover and just logged into my account and copy and pasted the info below. Might check into this a bit further.
I checked on my account and there isn't an option for Platinum Roadside assist, Ultimate is the highest option.



RACQ Ultimate is perfect for Queenslanders who love getting out on the open road.
If you rely on your car to travel those extra distances each day or you’re often away on a holiday road trip or weekend adventures, the last thing you want is a car breakdown. Our highest level of roadside cover gives you up to $7,000 a year in benefits and travel entitlements, including towing up to 200km. RACQ Ultimate covers you in any eligible car plus you can nominate a car that is covered no matter who is driving. And if you travel with a caravan or trailer it’s covered as part of your policy~.

RACQ Ultimate is the only roadside cover that offers you the option to have your caravan or trailer returned to a location of your choice in the event it cannot be mobilised.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 16, 2020, 11:28:15 AM

Thats interesting, I have Ultimate cover and just logged into my account and copy and pasted the info below. Might check into this a bit further.
I checked on my account and there isn't an option for Platinum Roadside assist, Ultimate is the highest option.



RACQ Ultimate is perfect for Queenslanders who love getting out on the open road.
If you rely on your car to travel those extra distances each day or you’re often away on a holiday road trip or weekend adventures, the last thing you want is a car breakdown. Our highest level of roadside cover gives you up to $7,000 a year in benefits and travel entitlements, including towing up to 200km. RACQ Ultimate covers you in any eligible car plus you can nominate a car that is covered no matter who is driving. And if you travel with a caravan or trailer it’s covered as part of your policy~.

RACQ Ultimate is the only roadside cover that offers you the option to have your caravan or trailer returned to a location of your choice in the event it cannot be mobilised.
google doesnt show platinum either.
https://www.racq.com.au/roadside-assistance/compare-roadside-options (https://www.racq.com.au/roadside-assistance/compare-roadside-options)


https://www.racq.com.au/roadside-assistance/how-it-works/terms-and-conditions (https://www.racq.com.au/roadside-assistance/how-it-works/terms-and-conditions)
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Fizzie on September 16, 2020, 11:37:29 AM
No, nothing on their site now, but I'm certain that I looked there only in this last week or so & also saw Platinum listed, because at the time I thought "Whatda - you mean my Ultimate isn't good enough any more" ??? :'(
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: JD-120 on September 16, 2020, 03:47:11 PM

Thats interesting, I have Ultimate cover and just logged into my account and copy and pasted the info below. Might check into this a bit further.
I checked on my account and there isn't an option for Platinum Roadside assist, Ultimate is the highest option.



RACQ Ultimate is perfect for Queenslanders who love getting out on the open road.
If you rely on your car to travel those extra distances each day or you’re often away on a holiday road trip or weekend adventures, the last thing you want is a car breakdown. Our highest level of roadside cover gives you up to $7,000 a year in benefits and travel entitlements, including towing up to 200km. RACQ Ultimate covers you in any eligible car plus you can nominate a car that is covered no matter who is driving. And if you travel with a caravan or trailer it’s covered as part of your policy~.

RACQ Ultimate is the only roadside cover that offers you the option to have your caravan or trailer returned to a location of your choice in the event it cannot be mobilised.

ahh, this is my bad, i had ultra, but needed ultimate. again, ultra seems pretty top level for me :)

disregard all platinum comments  ;D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: noel_w on September 16, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
ahh, this is my bad, i had ultra, but needed ultimate. again, ultra seems pretty top level for me :)

disregard all platinum comments  ;D
All good, thought I was missing something, though those that know me will tell you this anyway.  :laugh:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 16, 2020, 05:04:43 PM
All good, thought I was missing something, though those that know me will tell you this anyway.  :laugh:
They chop and change often enough it you were both right at 9am yesterday and 9am today :D
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: #jonesy on September 17, 2020, 06:05:17 AM
RACQ Ultimate is the only roadside cover that offers you the option to have your caravan or trailer returned to a location of your choice in the event it cannot be mobilised.
Might want to find out what the conditions are. To me the word mobilised means the caravan can't be towed i.e broken axle etc.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: MarkVS on September 17, 2020, 08:04:58 AM
Might want to find out what the conditions are. To me the word mobilised means the caravan can't be towed i.e broken axle etc.
I have RACQ Ultimate.....absolutely great service....2 years ago had a problem with my Pajero about 7 hrs away from home.
They sent a large flat bed truck out, pulled the car and camper (as one) up onto the tray, and took us all the way home. Then next day, sent out a smaller flatbed and took the car down to my mechanic.
Stayed in contact the whole time, and cost me nothing.

So they cover your tow vehicle, AND what you are towing, in the event that it is immobilised.
Mark VS
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on September 17, 2020, 08:10:56 AM
Might want to find out what the conditions are. To me the word mobilised means the caravan can't be towed i.e broken axle etc.

My mate had a bearing fail and eat the end off his camper trailer swingarm axle over the NT border in Marla, S.A. such that the wheel almost fell off when he pulled over.

RACQ organised to get it home (Brisbane) and he got accomodation allowances etc to continue his trip with the family. Apparently a $12-15k job all up.

Touch wood I haven't needed it, but I definitely have it.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on September 18, 2020, 09:46:22 AM
Got it back today and took it for a return run from Orange to Lithgow (226km) without the van. Stuck to the speed limits in S6 mostly on cruise control. No issues at all with the engine. No error codes or anything like that.
Will try the same tomorrow with the van in tow in S4 and S5 before I take it back for final inspection. Did 12.3L/100km for the return trip, which is good for a vehicle with all the crap that mine has on it.
The aircon buttons have all gone haywire, so I will get them to see what their fancy code reader says.
Keith

All good yet Keith?

Has it passed final inspection?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 18, 2020, 09:56:41 AM
Quote from: GeoffA
All good yet Keith?

Has it passed final inspection?

Hes stuck on side of road waiting for towy :'(



















its a joke...
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 18, 2020, 12:37:35 PM
I took it for a second run Orange-Lithgow-Orange on Wednesday with the caravan on the back, same as before, in S4 sticking to the speed limits on cruise control. It went well and did 20.6 l/100 for the return trip. Took it back for inspection yesterday morning and all it needed was a coolant top up.
Came home yesterday afternoon and did 16.4 l/100km from Orange to the inner west of Sydney with the caravan in tow, again in S4 and S3 all the way.
Looking good so far.
I asked them to fit a Provent catch can, but, with a compressor and a third battery under the bonnet, there is no room to fit one. Does anyone have any ideas on that?
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: edz on September 18, 2020, 01:35:44 PM
Do you have room beside the brake master cyl ..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prbP-qJwsDs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prbP-qJwsDs)        Failing that  Might have to set it up remotely lower down  with a sensor activated oil scavenger return pump . Wont be cheap though ..
Is there a way to mount the catch can high enough above the engine up under the dash and run a return line, using through bulkhead fittings ..
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 18, 2020, 02:05:43 PM

I asked them to fit a Provent catch can, but, with a compressor and a third battery under the bonnet, there is no room to fit one. Does anyone have any ideas on that?
Keith



http://www.xpeditionconcepts.com.au/services/ (http://www.xpeditionconcepts.com.au/services/)

This is the one I have, out of the way

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: MrCruza on September 18, 2020, 07:18:13 PM
http://www.xpeditionconcepts.com.au/services/ (http://www.xpeditionconcepts.com.au/services/)

This is the one I have, out of the way

GG


Got the same on mine.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 18, 2020, 08:32:59 PM
Gents
How do you drain them?
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on September 18, 2020, 08:44:18 PM
Different car, and I don't know how it would go for you, but I use one of these on my TD42T Patrol.

http://www.sydneyfilters.com.au/provent-200-non-return-check-valve/ (http://www.sydneyfilters.com.au/provent-200-non-return-check-valve/)

It's been there for years, and I've never had to do anything.
Set and forget, but I'm sure there will be detractors....

 :cheers:
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: edz on September 18, 2020, 08:46:47 PM
From  provents explanation they drain bak into the sump ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kvfjvq6lCQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kvfjvq6lCQ) 
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 18, 2020, 08:53:33 PM
Gents
How do you drain them?
Keith

Most or all of them have a drain outlet at the bottom. Run a hose off this with a on/off valve and run it under the 4wd and dump it every oil change.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 19, 2020, 07:28:09 AM
Gents
How do you drain them?
Keith

The drain in mine is tucked up in the wing of the bullbar. Every 5000k i move the plastic internal liner of the inner guard out of the way and pull out the drain hose. It almost reaches the ground when extended. On the end i have a water ball valve which I zip tie locked and I drain it into a coke bottle or similar. After draining new zippy and tuck it up out of the way for next time.

GG
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 27, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
How's it all going now your back home Keith. All running well?

GG

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 27, 2020, 10:37:58 PM
The 200 is running very nicely indeed and I am catching up on a few caravan jobs while the argument goes on with Club 4x4 insurance. It's basically a question of whether the engine has been dusted, which is not attributable to a single event under the period of the policy. The repairer says it's been dusted. The vehicle has not been down a dirt road in four years and I can prove that with my fuel log book and a letter from my own mechanic quoting the service schedule and his opinion that the engine ran perfectly at the last service.

The other option is that some loose muck got sucked in during the first ever use of maximum power up hills in the passing with the 2.5 tonne loaded van on the back on its maiden voyage. There was a lot of loose carbonated muck in the inlet manifold and no sign of dust. Although there was some slight dust on the inlet plumbing which I think has been there forever.

I am asking for a pro rata payment based on the  expected life of the engine. On Thursday I am having a new Patroldocta air box and a Provent catch can fitted to prevent the problem recurring. In the meantime we are in the hands of the insurance Gods.

Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GBC on September 28, 2020, 02:23:50 AM
A forensic engineer may be a wise investment. I have used one before after a claim was initially rejected and he sent the bill to the insurer.
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 28, 2020, 06:42:32 AM
I have used a forensic engineer before when my "reconditioned" Volvo boat engine blew up after just 70 hours.
It was a bit hard up at Orange because the engine was in and out and many components cleaned and changed over. But I will email and ask them to retain the engine in case there is a problem.
Many thanks
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 28, 2020, 10:04:59 AM
I have used a forensic engineer before when my "reconditioned" Volvo boat engine blew up after just 70 hours.
It was a bit hard up at Orange because the engine was in and out and many components cleaned and changed over. But I will email and ask them to retain the engine in case there is a problem.
Many thanks
Keith
chuck a box trailer on and go pick it up....
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: GeoffA on September 28, 2020, 10:06:39 AM
chuck a box trailer on and go pick it up....

...yep
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 28, 2020, 10:07:54 AM
I have emailed them and asked them to hold onto it for a while.
Keith
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: gronk on September 28, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
I have emailed them and asked them to hold onto it for a while.
Keith

They are worth money for the mobs that rebuild them. Did you replace both turbos?  Can't remember, but a good one of those is worth a bit as well.
And a look at the "bad" turbo may tell you what warranted an engine change ?
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: Bird on September 28, 2020, 07:29:38 PM
They are worth money for the mobs that rebuild them.
yep... the apprentice would hve claimed it by now LOL!
Title: Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
Post by: KeithB on September 28, 2020, 07:44:04 PM
They are worth money for the mobs that rebuild them. Did you replace both turbos?  Can't remember, but a good one of those is worth a bit as well.
And a look at the "bad" turbo may tell you what warranted an engine change ?
We replaced the passenger side one and reused the other one which was mint.
Keith