Author Topic: Home Theatre Sound System Help  (Read 3321 times)

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Offline DannyG

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Home Theatre Sound System Help
« on: August 05, 2018, 07:00:13 PM »
Im a bit of a numpty when it comes to home theatre sound, or Car Audio or any Audio actually!!

Ive never been a person who appreciates really good sound. What I mean by that is, yes I love great sound systems but Im not that in love with them that I can justify spending big money getting the best acoustics possible. Im sure I have insulted people in the past when they have shown me their top of the range sound systems and I didn't think they sounded a lot different to my budget'ish set ups.

So now you know where I am at with sound, I need educating some more.

I have a nice old Pioneer amp/receiver and all the surround speakers with a large woofer that I use in the shed. Ive had it for years. I dont recall what I paid for it but at the time I am sure it was a mid range system. It still works and sounds great but my wife hates it in the house because the speakers are big and black and too intrusive for the house apparently. So the shed it is now.

We have a Sony sound bar on the TV in the Lounge room and while it is a massive improvement over the TV's sound, it still isn't as good as my old surround system.

So I am considering getting some wall and/or ceiling flush mounted speakers to perhaps use with my old Pioneer Amp or maybe Ill buy another more modern amp.
What are your thoughts on this type of thing?

Can I buy some reasonably priced speakers (EG 100w Ebay bose speakers for instance) and use them as 5 speakers in a lounge or rumpus room as a surround sound set up?
Can I use one amp and have surround speakers in a lounge room and another set up in a rumpus room all through the one amp easily?
I see complete wall/ceiling mounted speaker set ups on ebay that have some sort of switching box.....whats the switching box do?

Any ideas, hints, tips etc? Keep in mind I am not after high end acoustics just something that will give me a surround sound while watching movies etc.

Id love to get some links to some budget/mid range complete systems or just speakers??

Thanks for any help. I am also open to buying second hand if this is an area where second hand is the best way to go??

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 07:27:12 PM »
I am certainly no audiofile but yes to all the above.

My system is 10 years old now but can do what you want.

A mid range Yamaha amp can run multi zone speaker set ups, mine runs 9 speakers and 3 zones plus an all zones setting.

I have old school speakers but they are basically hidden inside my TV area against a very dark grey wall and are all but invisible. They are Accusound. A friend of mine used to use them for commercial installs and got them for me. They are a mid range quality, but Australian made and if I crank them up you can see the windows bouncing to the base.

If I were doing it all again I would go and have a good look at different set ups in say Harvey Norman etc etc. It would be well worth seeing what Buetooth / Wifi set ups are like these days, if you can save money on cabling you can spend it on speakers, any half decent system your cabling will be 10% of the cost of the components.

Have fun.
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Offline BrisVegasGolfer

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 08:22:51 PM »
Just my 2cents, but speakers are speakers are speakers.  I'm no brand snob, but all credit to those who can pick the sound difference between cheap and fancy.  I've had a few setups from very expensive to very cheap gumtree jobs.  I've also had Accusounds, which were pretty decent, albeit $2.5k for the 5 mains I had.  I'm currently using bookshelf sized Tannoy and Krix speakers that I scored cheaply ($200) on gumtree.  I run a 12" subwoofer with a modest 150watts.  The whole system does the job for movies, but lacks a little bit for stereo music compared to a tower setup with bigger mid-bass woofers like I've had in the past.  The little Bose Accoustimass setups really only work for surround sound, as they rely so heavily on the bass module.  The bigger the woofers you can go on your main front speakers, the better.

I reckon your money is better spent on a more modern amp.  I got a Denon a little while back for $500 or so and it handles HDMI in and out and has bluetooth, 4K, multi-zone etc.  It's nowhere near as heavy as more serious amps I've owned, but it's doing the job.

10 years ago and I was lucky enough to build a new house with a dedicated home theatre and I also installed in-wall and in-ceiling speakers in the living area.  Honestly, the in-walls and in-ceilings did a brilliant job.  They had 6.5" mid-bass drivers across the front and they had plenty of punch.  I didn't bother with a subwoofer on the lounge room setup, as it didn't need it.  My wife loved that they were very unobtrusive and my then toddlers couldn't climb on them and knock them over.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 08:32:42 PM by BrisVegasGolfer »
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Offline Marcus73

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2018, 09:37:36 PM »
That’s a terrible outlook you have there


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Offline GBC

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 06:11:13 AM »
Is there a Hifi bloke you can have a chat with? They can tell in a pretty quick glance what you’ll need. Sound is just maths basically. The size and shape of your space will have a bearing on what you will need. The rears in my setup are ceiling mounted 8” directional carbon revtecs due to room shape and size. I built surrounds in the ceiling void for them, mounted them into 17mm ply behind the gyproc and I can still get minor distortion from the house (not the speakers). I was thinking about in wall for the fronts as well but I am glad I didn’t due to that reason. You cannot expect a wall to cope. I also did a fair bit of looking around at subs trying to find something 'pretty' enough. I walked into Todd’s hifi up here with the intent of buying a B&W sub which was aesthetically pleasing. The bloke asked me a couple of questions and wouldn’t sell it to me. The only thing that would do my room size was a PSB 'black box' sub. He was correct of course. If I was building now I would certainly provision the ceiling for a projector in the future. The future is bright for them. I suppose the first thing is to work out a budget and go from there. I bought a slimline philips Amp, sub and speakers in a box from dick Smith’s for $180 for the upstairs tv and it isn’t terrible. If you want to sit down with a rum/scotch and have the bass in Kyarma’s ‘long after you’re gone’ give your stomach butterflies you will need to spend a bit more.
Amps will need HDMI inputs these days to run games/fox/tv etc so we have all been forced to upgrade. Again, budget is important, or keep an eye out for second hand stuff being changed up by guys who need the very latest gear. Sound appreciation is very subjective and you will like what someone else doesn't. Just because you pay a lot doesn't always mean it'll blow your socks off. Good luck with the search for sonic nirvana.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 08:58:33 AM by GBC »

Offline BrisVegasGolfer

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 07:28:04 AM »
That’s a terrible outlook you have there


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ta mate, but we sold that place a few years back.  It was a money pit, sadly....
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Offline MrCruza

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 08:35:26 AM »


I have old school speakers but they are basically hidden inside my TV area against a very dark grey wall and are all but invisible. They are Accusound. A friend of mine used to use them for commercial installs and got them for me. They are a mid range quality, but Australian made and if I crank them up you can see the windows bouncing to the base.



X 2 for the Accusounds. Have them in my lounge with the 70" Sony TV with a Pioneer receiver. Better than being at the movies  :cup:
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Offline tryagain

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 08:48:59 AM »
Ive never been a person who appreciates really good sound. What I mean by that is, yes I love great sound systems but Im not that in love with them that I can justify spending big money getting the best acoustics possible. Im sure I have insulted people in the past when they have shown me their top of the range sound systems and I didn't think they sounded a lot different to my budget'ish set ups.

That right there is a blessing, not a curse.

I remember reading a comment that went against the tide of opinion that you should go to a good HiFi shop and sit down and listen to range of speakers and then decide, this person's take was only listen to speakers in your price range as if you listen to more expensive speakers, either you are likely to spend more than you want, or settle for something that wasn't what you really liked. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
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Offline GBC

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 08:56:31 AM »
That right there is a blessing, not a curse.

I remember reading a comment that went against the tide of opinion that you should go to a good HiFi shop and sit down and listen to range of speakers and then decide, this person's take was only listen to speakers in your price range as if you listen to more expensive speakers, either you are likely to spend more than you want, or settle for something that wasn't what you really liked. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Yep, once that Genie is let out of the bottle it cannot be put back. I can still remember the smell and sound of the B&W nautilus' I heard in a sound lounge - I will now die a bitter and twisted man knowing they shall never be mine and I will not hear that sound again :'(
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Offline noel_w

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 09:55:44 AM »
Yep, once that Genie is let out of the bottle it cannot be put back. I can still remember the smell and sound of the B&W nautilus' I heard in a sound lounge - I will now die a bitter and twisted man knowing they shall never be mine and I will not hear that sound again :'(
Aaahh yes, that eternal battle of upgradeitis.
I recently had to upgrade my old Denon receiver as one front channel went low and a couple of inputs stopped altogether. Found a replacement 4 yo Denon on Gumtree and couldn't be happier. The old was 90 watts per channel but the new is 100 watts. The difference in being able to drive my speakers is amazing.
I am also of the opinion that in-wall speakers are very limiting in their sound quality. Most good speakers are designed with their box dimensions to match the crossover and drivers. It's a whole package. Just stuffing speakers into a wall cavity in my mind has no acoustic design behind it and will give little to what the speakers can fully deliver in a properly designed speaker box.
There are some amazing bargains to be had on Gumtree for speakers. Keep an eye out and if there are some that look the goods, do some googling for reviews.
My retirement plan is to build some from scratch to a design made by some great sound engineers. Equivalent to something you would pay upwards of ten grand for a pair but self made is about a grand for all the parts. Can't wait to get my mitts into it. I made sure my new amp/receiver is able to drive them  :laugh: :laugh:
Good luck on your quest
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 10:06:17 AM »
I can already tell some of you blokes are far more sound buffs than Ill ever be.

I was hoping to set something up for less than $500! I am probably dreaming but then again I really have no idea. I know I spent a grand or 3 about 20 years ago on the Pioneer system I am now using in the shed but the same sort of system can no doubt be bought for a quarter of the price these days.


I built surrounds in the ceiling void for them, mounted them into 17mm ply behind the gyproc and I can still get minor distortion from the house (not the speakers).
I was thinking about in wall for the fronts as well but I am glad I didn’t due to that reason. You cannot expect a wall to cope.

If I was building now I would certainly provision the ceiling for a projector in the future. The future is bright for them. I suppose the first thing is to work out a budget and go from there. I bought a slimline philips Amp, sub and speakers in a box from dick Smith’s for $180 for the upstairs tv and it isn’t terrible. If you want to sit down with a rum/scotch and have the bass in Kyarma’s ‘long after you’re gone’ give your stomach butterflies you will need to spend a bit more.

Now I would most likely not notice any distortion in your ceiling speakers! When you say you can not expect a wall to cope, do you mean physically or do you mean acoustically?

And when you say to provision for a projector do you mean to mount it? As in having the structure in the roof to hold it? I am interested in a projector at some stage for the rumpus room.

So the kit you bought at DS's for $180 would probably be just fine for us. I dont need heart bouncing base, in fact it annoys me for the most part  ;D

 
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Offline GBC

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2018, 10:32:37 AM »
I can already tell some of you blokes are far more sound buffs than Ill ever be.

I was hoping to set something up for less than $500! I am probably dreaming but then again I really have no idea. I know I spent a grand or 3 about 20 years ago on the Pioneer system I am now using in the shed but the same sort of system can no doubt be bought for a quarter of the price these days.


Now I would most likely not notice any distortion in your ceiling speakers! When you say you can not expect a wall to cope, do you mean physically or do you mean acoustically?

And when you say to provision for a projector do you mean to mount it? As in having the structure in the roof to hold it? I am interested in a projector at some stage for the rumpus room.

So the kit you bought at DS's for $180 would probably be just fine for us. I dont need heart bouncing base, in fact it annoys me for the most part  ;D
Yes mate, you mount a speaker in a wall or ceiling and the space behind it becomes part of it. If you aren’t running much power it isn’t an issue. It is a less precise science though.
Projectors need a backing plate, power and a hdmi back to the amp. I didnt do mine and I might live to regret it.
For the money you are talking I’d be looking at a 5.1 system in a box too. Run a few wires for the rear speakers to keep it tidy and you are almost done.


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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2018, 11:13:31 AM »
Quote from: DannyG
. I know I spent a grand or 3 about 20 years ago on the Pioneer system I am now using in the shed but the same sort of system can no doubt be bought for a quarter of the price these days.
I still have my marantz setup I bought for stupid money back in the 80's sitting in the shed pumping out a great sound.
My home theater system i got second hand - like anything let someone else pay the 'walk out the door tax' ... Thanks GG :D
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2018, 08:31:03 AM »
I am going to stay out of this as I am a sound tragic  :D

But you do get what you pay for generally except for the wanky marketed ones.

Some good points raised only thing I’ll add is consider room acoustics. I have a big tile and glass area and it struggles to sound good with a fancy system .

Have a carpeted lounge room and it sounds great with anything and outta this world with great stuff
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2018, 08:35:07 AM »
Ok gents I have been working through this and I have some prices from a person who installs these things. Keep in mind I suggested a budget set up.

3 of these as Front centre, left and right in the wall
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/accento-5-2-way-8-ohm-rectangle-ceiling-in-wall/speaker-ceiling-inwall/audio-speakers-pa/ads528-41964/967366/pd/

2 of these as left and right rears for the ceiling
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/accento-dynamica-premium-hifi-2-way-8-ohm/speaker-ceiling-inwall/audio-speakers-pa/ads65m50-27228/959745/pd/

This sub woofer
http://www.earthquakesound.com/index.php/en/home-audio-division/home-products/home-subwoofers/item/ff10

And this Amp
https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v583/index.html

$1450 as a self install.

I was told with that Amp I can have the 5 speakers in the rumpus room as proper surround sound and 2 speakers in the lounge as stereo sound at the same time plus each bedroom and or bathroom, outdoor area etc can have its own speaker and all controlled by an app.

What do you people who would know a lot more about this than me think of that set up and price?
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Offline GBC

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 06:01:53 PM »
Going by the RRP you will be getting a bit of a bargain. Big steps up from a $500 box kit. Take care mounting the in wall speakers and wad the walls correctly. Your mate will help you set the sub crossover to suit hopefully. The Yamaha amp will set itself up with the YPAO unit. Just feed in the correct info about the speakers. I’d take a punt at that price.

Offline rockrat

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Re: Home Theatre Sound System Help
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2018, 07:35:09 PM »
About 6 months ago I upgraded my old Pioneer unit to a Yamaha (vx-683 I think) and the difference in sound (even with my existing speakers) was amazing.