Post by: 99disco on February 14, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
Umm.....ever tried to set up a business in Australia???
I see where your coming from mate. You can buy Arb air lockers (made in Australia) from the U.S. Cheaper than you can buy them local. How ridiculous.
Shane
Post by: Bird on February 14, 2015, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: 99disco
You can buy Arb air lockers (made in Australia) from the U.S. Cheaper than you can buy them local. How ridiculous.exactly.. This throws all others arguments out the window.
Shane
I think it was funny when ARB man tried to explain that on the forum here..
Post by: cucinadio on February 14, 2015, 01:44:02 PM
exactly.. This throws all others arguments out the window.
I think it was funny when ARB man tried to explain that on the forum here..
And how did the ARB explain the reasoning Bird?
Post by: feisty on February 14, 2015, 06:07:58 PM
Post by: speewa158 on February 14, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
Get it , use it , enjoy it , brag about it , put the stickers on the rig to say you got it . lts only got to help you once to give you bragging rights , so why don't you have it ??? ???
Post by: Bird on February 14, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: cucinadio
And how did the ARB explain the reasoning Bird?
USA shops use them as a loss leader.. sell them at a loss to get customers in the door...
Post by: speewa158 on February 14, 2015, 08:09:18 PM
Post by: Homer_Jay on February 15, 2015, 06:42:57 AM
USA shops use them as a loss leader.. sell them at a loss to get customers in the door...
Now that's a piss take!
I guess he couldn't be honest and just tell us they rip us Aussies off. PR department probably wouldn't have approved.
Post by: ozbogwam on February 15, 2015, 08:49:58 AM
USA shops use them as a loss leader.. sell them at a loss to get customers in the door...bingo
Exactly how they do it plus they can sell more units at a smaller profit margin due to the much much bigger market place in the US
Post by: cucinadio on February 15, 2015, 09:30:09 AM
bingo
Exactly how they do it plus they can sell more units at a smaller profit margin due to the much much bigger market place in the US
You hit the nail on the head mate.. "profit margin" ;) as even my 11 year old can tell you ..
"Dad, why don't people just sell everything for a dollar?...they would sell heaps more if everything was only a dollar!" .. lol..
You see whilst simplistic..it's even the understanding of avarice is child play!.... [Not that i wouldn't buy ARB product, just i would do my research as to value for money in a deceptive market ;)]
Post by: Bird on February 15, 2015, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Homer_Jay
Now that's a piss take!Yep, but some people will believe shops sell things mail order to overseas to get you in the door 12,000klms away
I guess he couldn't be honest and just tell us they rip us Aussies off. PR department probably wouldn't have approved.
Post by: KingBilly on February 15, 2015, 09:49:54 AM
KB
Post by: Bird on February 15, 2015, 09:59:45 AM
Post by: Wrex on February 15, 2015, 01:26:32 PM
The same Franchise is in the US and rents in major shopping complexes are up to 80% less. Wages again 40% less. Insurance, power, water etc etc. My coffee shop in the US, that same cup of coffee would be around the $3 mark.
I giggle at some of the comments above.
Post by: cucinadio on February 15, 2015, 02:12:54 PM
A coffee in my old coffee shop cost $5.80 for a large T/A. The reason here in Australia particularly over here in the West was my 28sqm shop with 10sqm store room in a major shopping center cost us $108,000 a year rent. My 15yo kids working Thurs nights and Saturdays were on more money per hourly rate than my 50yo ladies working 9-5 during the week.
The same Franchise is in the US and rents in major shopping complexes are up to 80% less. Wages again 40% less. Insurance, power, water etc etc. My coffee shop in the US, that same cup of coffee would be around the $3 mark.
I giggle at some of the comments above.
So what do you think the solution is?... Are you still in coffee?
Post by: achjimmy on February 15, 2015, 02:29:09 PM
A coffee in my old coffee shop cost $5.80 for a large T/A. The reason here in Australia particularly over here in the West was my 28sqm shop with 10sqm store room in a major shopping center cost us $108,000 a year rent. My 15yo kids working Thurs nights and Saturdays were on more money per hourly rate than my 50yo ladies working 9-5 during the week.
The same Franchise is in the US and rents in major shopping complexes are up to 80% less. Wages again 40% less. Insurance, power, water etc etc. My coffee shop in the US, that same cup of coffee would be around the $3 mark.
I giggle at some of the comments above.
Plus a ten times bigger market.
Post by: achjimmy on February 15, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
So what do you think the solution is?... Are you still in coffee?
Ha ha ha are you ready for US style GFC housing crisis with workchoices x100 being introduced???
No, most Australians aren't so keep lubing up when buying things.
Post by: cucinadio on February 15, 2015, 02:45:31 PM
Ha ha ha are you ready for US style GFC housing crisis with workchoices x100 being introduced???
No, most Australians aren't so keep lubing up when buying things.
I don't know if you being sarcastic or proffering a comment ....I'm certainly not looking at a x100 Work-choices situation. but certainly know the Australian people don't accept the argument that wages are the issue?
Post by: D4D on February 15, 2015, 03:02:54 PM
but certainly know the Australian people don't accept the argument that wages are the issue?
You haven't travelled to the US have you?
Post by: achjimmy on February 15, 2015, 03:11:18 PM
.I'm certainly not looking at a x100 Work-choices situation. but certainly know the Australian people don't accept the argument that wages are the issue?
And hence this thread will continue on.
You can simply not compare selling things in AU compared to other markets in the world. Regardless of where they are made. The sales channels, the size of markets, the costs of getting those goods, the wages, the conditions, etc etc etc. and I am not saying some companies aren't profiteering either.
But the average Australian has nooooo idea how well they have it employment and living standard wise.
Post by: oldmate on February 15, 2015, 03:20:24 PM
But the average Australian has nooooo idea how well they have it employment and living standard wise.
Dam right there mate
Post by: Barry G on February 15, 2015, 04:00:11 PM
A coffee in my old coffee shop cost $5.80 for a large T/A. The reason here in Australia particularly over here in the West was my 28sqm shop with 10sqm store room in a major shopping center cost us $108,000 a year rent. My 15yo kids working Thurs nights and Saturdays were on more money per hourly rate than my 50yo ladies working 9-5 during the week.I totally agree with you that major shopping complexes are little more than extortion rackets robbing shop operators blind. I have lost count of how many long running shops have been forced out of 'Bay City' in Central Geelong, only to be replaced by yet another seller of $2 junk. But we are told 'that is how the free market works'.
The same Franchise is in the US and rents in major shopping complexes are up to 80% less. Wages again 40% less. Insurance, power, water etc etc. My coffee shop in the US, that same cup of coffee would be around the $3 mark.
I giggle at some of the comments above.
I am happy to pay to cover penalty rates, would even be happy to pay $10% more in cafés and restaurants at weekends for the privilege of having others serve me when I am out with friends at what remain the most common times for people to be off work and enjoying the company of friends.
Post by: cucinadio on February 15, 2015, 04:01:46 PM
And hence this thread will continue on.
You can simply not compare selling things in AU compared to other markets in the world. Regardless of where they are made. The sales channels, the size of markets, the costs of getting those goods, the wages, the conditions, etc etc etc. and I am not saying some companies aren't profiteering either.
But the average Australian has nooooo idea how well they have it employment and living standard wise.
I'm sure Australian "DO" know how good they have it .. and they have fought long and hard for it too. so there not about to let it go back wards just to appease more profit at there expense.
That aside, you can compare markets, it's profit driven regardless where it's produced and sold. Try telling that to Woolworths when buying milk for 30cent a litter ;)
Post by: D4D on February 15, 2015, 04:09:34 PM
That aside, you can compare markets, it's profit driven regardless where it's produced and sold.
You actually can't compare the markets and you left out one critical factor, volume. It all gets down to supply and demand.
Post by: cucinadio on February 15, 2015, 04:19:01 PM
You actually can't compare the markets and you left out one critical factor, volume. It all gets down to supply and demand.
Yes, you're right mate. I forgot the "volume" excuse for hiking up the price .. sorry :cheers:
Oh.. and profit margin is determined by your particular business model.. take for instance the current business model of www.4wdsupacentre.com.au (http://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au) .. they have chosen to use a business model that drastically undercuts certain players in the market .. even tho some of these competitors are selling the same product at the expense of Australian manufactures [albeit some Australian made product].
Take for example the fact you can order Supercheap snatch straps from china for .70cents a piece tailgate .. and then sell them for $70 a piece in Australia .. you see business models are integral to profit margins and they all have a choice to make as to where and when they are taking the piss ;)
Post by: achjimmy on February 15, 2015, 05:41:30 PM
Post by: cucinadio on February 15, 2015, 05:51:28 PM
Sounds like your cracked the code. Suggest you by black widow and few other companies. Your going to nail it.
:-*.. lol.. I was about to suggest the same to you ... hehehe :cheers: mate.. all good in love and war ...
is it tho about all that.. or just about what we pay?
Post by: Swannie on February 15, 2015, 06:10:58 PM
Swannie
Post by: Moggy on February 15, 2015, 06:22:05 PM
I totally agree with you that major shopping complexes are little more than extortion rackets robbing shop operators blind. I have lost count of how many long running shops have been forced out of 'Bay City' in Central Geelong, only to be replaced by yet another seller of $2 junk. But we are told 'that is how the free market works'.Interesting as i'm sure i read somewhere in the last week that 30% of shopping centres/malls in the US will be empty by 2030???. the trend is back to local shops apparently.
I am happy to pay to cover penalty rates, would even be happy to pay $10% more in cafés and restaurants at weekends for the privilege of having others serve me when I am out with friends at what remain the most common times for people to be off work and enjoying the company of friends.
But back to the main topic, Australia is always going to struggle against imports, i mean we can all stamp our feet but if you have to choose between the $5 shirt from Bangladesh Or the $50 Aus made what are you really going to be able to afford long term.
We've worked hard (as a nation) & therefore think we're entitled! & unfortunately this has transferred to our kids (and workers) & they just think their entitled (i'm talking collectively) so until their is a change in mindset across the nation this will be pretty common place i suspect.
Besides if you asked me to chose between the "Local" BW $3000 drawers & the "Titan $1000 Imported" drawers well i can spend the $2000 difference supporting local farmers by buying produce direct 8) which appeals to me more i'm afraid
Post by: achjimmy on February 15, 2015, 06:28:52 PM
Interesting again to see those bleating what they'll pay to keep Aussies jobs. Their the same ones lined up with you and me to buy Jules Chinese maxtrax and Mcgills light bars etc lol everybody has a price.
You wanna see a parochial market go to Germany or Japan. Ohhhhh they just happen to be manufacturing Giants too
Post by: ozbogwam on February 15, 2015, 06:35:11 PM
Yes, you're right mate. I forgot the "volume" excuse for hiking up the price .. sorry :cheers:
Oh.. and profit margin is determined by your particular business model.. take for instance the current business model of www.4wdsupacentre.com.au (http://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au) .. they have chosen to use a business model that drastically undercuts certain players in the market .. even tho some of these competitors are selling the same product at the expense of Australian manufactures [albeit some Australian made product].
Take for example the fact you can order Supercheap snatch straps from china for .70cents a piece tailgate .. and then sell them for $70 a piece in Australia .. you see business models are integral to profit margins and they all have a choice to make as to where and when they are taking the piss ;)
Yep and you don't have to buy their stuff either.
Kinda like how Toyota charge through the roof or you could buy a Great Wall.
It's about different products priced for different sections of the market. Nothing to do with taking the piss, it's about determining what a particular market is willing to pay to generate a sustainable profit to make a company successful.
Some businesses seem to do it well others don't
Don't forget none of these products are NEEDS they are WANTS so pay what you feel comfortable with but don't begrudge those who are willing to buy from a different market segment
Post by: achjimmy on February 15, 2015, 06:35:11 PM
:-*.. lol.. I was about to suggest the same to you ... hehehe :cheers: mate.. all good in love and war ...
is it tho about all that.. or just about what we pay?
Mate if you knew me you'd laugh. My livelihood is tied to Australian manufacturing. I have been involved with just about all the major manufacturers, automotive , medical devices, Defence, the sciences universities etc.
That is why I am so critical of the governments, they have let this sector down soooooo badly. And not just the blue bloods either. The "workers friend" is anything but that when it comes to manufacturing in AU.
Buy me a beer or two next meet and I will have you an anarchist in no time. :cheers:
Post by: GGV8Cruza on February 15, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
Geez another thread taken off track
Swannie
Fixed it Swannie, split the threads :police:
GG
Post by: koshari on February 15, 2015, 07:19:34 PM
I see where your coming from mate. You can buy Arb air lockers (made in Australia) from the U.S. Cheaper than you can buy them local. How ridiculous.
Shane
i recall a few years ago back when GB chainsaw bars were still manufactured still in Braeside rather than now in china i bought a bar from the UK cheaper than i could source it locally. pretty interesting when freighting it around the world is cheaper than buying it in the same place it was manufactured!
Post by: xcvator on February 15, 2015, 07:41:02 PM
and NO I didn't buy it, found 1 on ebay in Hallam for $35-00 (in a shop ) ;D ;D
Post by: alnjan on February 15, 2015, 08:25:43 PM
Post by: bobnrob on February 15, 2015, 08:47:39 PM
eg: 2(?) yrs ago, we went looking for a new baking dish.
Tried shop (A), being part of a 'chain' store - $5X
Tried shop (B), not part of a chain store - $16
EXACT same baking dish, exact same wrapping with exact same writing, exact same baking rack, exact same size!
Post by: Bird on February 15, 2015, 09:16:08 PM
Quote from: koshari
. pretty interesting when freighting it around the world is cheaper than buying it in the same place it was manufactured!that's ARB Lockers.. made out the back, walk to the counter $1400. or made in office, through 20 sets of hands shipping to USA, to store, back to AU and to your door, $800...
All those 20 people whose hands it goes through have to make a profit or the close the doors...
Post by: UIZ733 on February 15, 2015, 09:39:26 PM
In Oz it is nearly impossible to buy a six pack of any pale for under $15.00 AU. Some of the cheapest Pale Ales sold here are brewed overseas.
Little Creatures make a reasonable/good Pale (approx. $18.00/six pack....$70.00?/carton in Brisbane) at Uncle Dan's. Stupidly I thought a possible explanation for the high price was the tyranny of distance (meaning it has to be transported from WA after brewing). Guess what it appears the Little Creatures we get in Qld is brewed in Vic. Why the ridiculous price then? I guess it must be the gold plated hops OR is it what business can get away with? Business is acutely aware of what they can get away with and use this fact at all times to improve the bottom line. We the consumer seem to be compliant so why change I guess? Wait until they (Government) 'tax' all online overseas purchases to polish off the rort. Jerry Harvey and other fat cats of business will have their wish granted sooner rather than later.
I could give many, many more, even better examples of unexplainable price gouging here in Oz. It is wrong to simplistically blame it solely on wages and the Unions alone. Business and all levels of Government are well and truly 'in it' up to their ears. Greed is God.
Rant over.
Post by: Wrex on February 15, 2015, 11:00:17 PM
So what do you think the solution is?... Are you still in coffee?
No mate we sold our business a few years back.
Rental rates are beyond a joke here in perth. I have seen hard working families loose there businesses and homes due to rents rising 50% when the lease needs to be renewed.
Westfield, Centro and the like are ruthless and make obscene profits. We the consumer pay for it along with the lease holders.
A mate of mine works in the motorcycle industry. He orders a part for a Yamaha ( for example) motorcycle from the state distributor who is housed in a different business in a distribution company that has several different businesses using his distribution Warehouse. The state distributor doesn't have the part so orders it from the Australian distributor who doesn't have the part either. The Australian distributor orders it from the australian importer who orders it from the manufacturer direct.
Same scenario in the USA, the little bike shop needs the same part he orders from Yamaha US, if they don't have it order placed with Yamaha Japan. All those middle men in Australia and there percentages
are gone.
Part cheaper, customer possibly spending more in future with little bike shop. Opportunity for the little man to make some money and keep up with the big boy who can absorb the costs easier.
Post by: leachy_9 on February 15, 2015, 11:16:25 PM
Post by: Garfish on February 16, 2015, 05:56:15 AM
That is why I am so critical of the governments, they have let this sector down soooooo badly. And not just the blue bloods either. The "workers friend" is anything but that when it comes to
As an accountantant who has specialised in manufacturing this is x 2.
Unfortunately with the fixed costs so high in most business's volumes is the answer, given the limited ability to reduce fixed costs. Eg, rent, web site, insurance, , and a small cost wary market where you are becoming more and more required to make to a price point ( think new KK pricing) I would believe (hope) they have research that enough People do value quality gear but the premium they are willing to pay is x%. Now how and what can we make without compromising our quality to achieve this. And what additional volume would this generate to absorb fixed costs and increase the profitability on the top end spec'd product . The balancing act is to grow their share of total market with minimal cannibalisation of current sales. Now to go and try and find a job in this market. ( why did I choose manufacturing)
Post by: Garfish on February 16, 2015, 06:49:47 AM
As an accountantant who has specialised in manufacturing this is x 2.
Unfortunately with the fixed costs so high in most business's volumes is the answer, given the limited ability to reduce fixed costs. Eg, rent, web site, insurance, , and a small cost wary market where you are becoming more and more required to make to a price point ( think new KK pricing) I would believe (hope) they have research that enough People do value quality gear but the premium they are willing to pay is x%. Now how and what can we make without compromising our quality to achieve this. And what additional volume would this generate to absorb fixed costs and increase the profitability on the top end spec'd product . The balancing act is to grow their share of total market with minimal cannibalisation of current sales. Now go and try and find a job in manufacturing . ( why did I choose manufacturing)
Post by: Artie01 on February 16, 2015, 08:11:27 AM
During our tour of one park, it was pretty much auto based (was Hemaraj now I think its the Eastern Seaboard Industrial Estate) it was amazing to see some of those good ole yankee Chevy trucks manufactured there, next to Honda, Toyota Mazda a few of the other obscure brands and (aussie) Ford (who we were actually there to see).
Imagine my surprise when we drove past the ARB factory....
A few of us looked at each other (in shock really).... and watched as a small bent over old lady swept the concrete out front of the factory with a hand made twig broom.... all 3 hectares of concrete... she was going to be busy for a while.... and you can be certain ARB weren't paying her much.... sort of explains some parts of their pricing structure.....
At the ford assembly plant (for the Focus model) we were discussing the cost of a Focus in Thailand vs the same car in Australia, the Ford rep said the vehicle cost is based purely on the economies ability to pay. The car cost over twice here in Oz as it could be bought for in Thailand and they still made a profit in Thailand... it seems we ARE being squeezed....
Post by: dales133 on February 16, 2015, 08:33:48 AM
If you take jobs off shore and do it as covertly as possible to retain the public perception it's still an Australian made product....why should you be rewarded by getting away with australian made retail prices.
Post by: koshari on February 16, 2015, 09:17:17 AM
You don't manufacture in Asia for any other reason than to dramatically reduce production costs, particularly Labour at the cost of local jobs.
If you take jobs off shore and do it as covertly as possible to retain the public perception it's still an Australian made product....why should you be rewarded by getting away with australian made retail prices.
I recall blundstone were pretty deliberately quiet when they moved production offshore,
Odd how the pricing didn't change to reflect the savings by outsourcing production.
I do agree that the public are often prepared to pay a premium if they believe manufacturing is still being undertaken locally, i suspect much of this loyalty would evaporate if the same public were aware of the outsourcing.
To add to Arties observations I also have had the opportunity to see some of the production facilities in Cambodia (typical of other S/E asian regions) where they literally have dry dock/Special economic zones where whole industrial communities operate that are not subject to general taxation, duties, labour requirements. very hard to compete with these areas if any sovereign country wants to tax the multinationals a fair and equitable Taxation requirement.
Post by: Artie01 on February 16, 2015, 09:55:34 AM
You have to be careful what you ask for... you might just get it....
We all know that these Asian countries can make crap. What we tend to forget though is that if you pay enough money, they can also make very high quality...... you gets what ya pays for....
Post by: chester ver2.0 on February 16, 2015, 09:59:04 AM
You don't manufacture in Asia for any other reason than to dramatically reduce production costs, particularly Labour at the cost of local jobs.
If you take jobs off shore and do it as covertly as possible to retain the public perception it's still an Australian made product....why should you be rewarded by getting away with australian made retail prices.
Happy to keep the jobs in Australia as long as most Aussies take a reality pill and stop expecting to be paid insane wages for what is largley unskilled labour roles
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on February 16, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Happy to keep the jobs in Australia as long as most Aussies take a reality pill and stop expecting to be paid insane wages for what is largley unskilled labour roles
:cup:
Nailed it!
Post by: dales133 on February 16, 2015, 10:07:41 AM
Happy to keep the jobs in Australia as long as most Aussies take a reality pill and stop expecting to be paid insane wages for what is largley unskilled labour rolesYour dead right everyone expects much more than what a jobs worth be it contracting or wages but with the cost of everything in Australia it's a nesecity.
Like the old adage what came first the cost of living (egg) or the high expectations of income (chicken)
Post by: chester ver2.0 on February 16, 2015, 10:30:26 AM
It is quite simple
You drop wages and yes there will be a year of pain
Then you will find demad for goods and services especially luxury or discretionary items such as airlockers will radically drop
Then guess what will happen yep you guessed it prices will drop to meet the new demand model
Our stupidly high wages in Oz kill us. products are marked up, housing is marked up and therefore it then does not become cost effective to manufacture here so jobs go down
Post by: koshari on February 16, 2015, 11:20:51 AM
Happy to keep the jobs in Australia as long as most Aussies take a reality pill and stop expecting to be paid insane wages for what is largley unskilled labour roles
of course this cuts both ways,
if costs were not so steep people wouldnt have to request high wages,
Some people in Asia get paid about $20 a week, here that wouldnt even cover the registration cost of the vehicle you need to get to work. Let alone the cost of putting fuel in it. not to mention the minumum price someone would have to pay in rent as opposed to other jurisdictions.
Post by: bentnose on February 16, 2015, 11:38:35 AM
:cup:
Nailed it!
x 2
Post by: Wrex on February 16, 2015, 11:58:18 AM
And most of those middle men with their hand in the Australian consumers wallet add no value and provide no service. But complain when the consumer finds he can buy the exact same product significantly cheaper, with better service elsewhere.
Amen to that brother. Nailed it on the head.
Post by: Squalo on February 16, 2015, 05:27:02 PM
I'm no scholar by a long shot, and I certainly don't have the answers, but I do have a theory based on experience...unadulterated greed!
eg: 2(?) yrs ago, we went looking for a new baking dish.
Tried shop (A), being part of a 'chain' store - $5X
Tried shop (B), not part of a chain store - $16
EXACT same baking dish, exact same wrapping with exact same writing, exact same baking rack, exact same size!
A quick exercise in economics.
If you buy in bulk - like Shop A - the manufacturer offers you a discount. You can then sell at a price that undercuts retailers who don't buy in bulk - like Shop B.
If you are Shop A, you can also set employment conditions that allow you to pay the lowest possible rate to your employees, and you can negotiate cheaper rent terms due to your status as a 'chain' store.
If you are Shop B, you are probably paying the going rate to your employees, because you don't have a massive legal/financial company assisting you in finding loopholes to 'adjust' your conditions of employment for maximum gain, and you might also just pay the going rate because you care about your employees.
If you are Shop A, warranty returns are no big deal. Your buying power means that you negotiated special terms with your suppliers, who really really want the business you can offer, and so who offered to take on the hassle of managing warranty problems.
If you are Shop B, you need to manage the whole warranty issue from start to finish. Every minute you spend on a warranty issue is a minute spent not working on maximising profit.
If you are Shop A, advertising/tax issues/HR issues/training/compliance are all covered by the money you send back to the parent company (the only downside of being part of a chain), and you don't need to lift a finger.
If you are Shop B, all costs are yours and yours alone.
I grew up in an independent hardware store and saw all of this first-hand, including the first Bunnings and everything that went on from there.
My parents made it work with good old fashioned service, and they did well from their semi-rural town store despite the damage that the rise of chain stores was doing all over the country to small businesses. All credit to them (Tahmoor Hardware, if anyone is curious).
You don't manufacture in Asia for any other reason than to dramatically reduce production costs, particularly Labour at the cost of local jobs.
If you take jobs off shore and do it as covertly as possible to retain the public perception it's still an Australian made product....why should you be rewarded by getting away with australian made retail prices.
Agreed when it comes to the rationale of offshoring. They move production overseas simply because the production cost and the retail price simply don't make sense anymore from a profit perspective - the idea of business being to make money - so to preserve the retail price they need to cut the production cost.
The alternative is to put the retail price up. So would you rather continue to pay the same price, or a higher price? because that quite simply is the choice faced.
A business that chooses the latter is smashed by imports, and goes under - instead of 100 people from a 150-strong workforce losing their jobs, all 150 go, and so does the expertise.
Which is prefereable under such a system? and make no bones about it, this is the system we have now. There's no alternative. And the fact that there's no alternative is entirely due to people wanting to pay less.
Eventually there will be no alternative to the no alternative, if you get the drift - once everything is made o/s, it is o/s who will set the terms. Just like what will happen when Coles and Woolies force us into their own-brand for everything - with no competion, $1/litre milk will become $2/litre milk overnight. And the punters will only have themselves to blame.
(for the record, I buy Maleny Dairies milk, it helps keep me broke but I sleep well at night)
Post by: dales133 on February 16, 2015, 05:34:24 PM
And you raised some good points and the best being use it or loose it when it comes to small business or you'll be stuck with monopolies like the way things are heading
Post by: Nomad on February 16, 2015, 08:41:06 PM
Post by: Bird on February 17, 2015, 07:32:29 AM
A quick exercise in economics.
If you buy in bulk - like Shop A - the manufacturer offers you a discount. You can then sell at a price that undercuts retailers who don't buy in bulk - like Shop B.
If you are Shop A, you can also set employment conditions that allow you to pay the lowest possible rate to your employees, and you can negotiate cheaper rent terms due to your status as a 'chain' store.
If you are Shop B, you are probably paying the going rate to your employees, because you don't have a massive legal/financial company assisting you in finding loopholes to 'adjust' your conditions of employment for maximum gain, and you might also just pay the going rate because you care about your employees.
If you are Shop A, warranty returns are no big deal. Your buying power means that you negotiated special terms with your suppliers, who really really want the business you can offer, and so who offered to take on the hassle of managing warranty problems.
If you are Shop B, you need to manage the whole warranty issue from start to finish. Every minute you spend on a warranty issue is a minute spent not working on maximising profit.
If you are Shop A, advertising/tax issues/HR issues/training/compliance are all covered by the money you send back to the parent company (the only downside of being part of a chain), and you don't need to lift a finger.
If you are Shop B, all costs are yours and yours alone.
I grew up in an independent hardware store and saw all of this first-hand, including the first Bunnings and everything that went on from there.
My parents made it work with good old fashioned service, and they did well from their semi-rural town store despite the damage that the rise of chain stores was doing all over the country to small businesses. All credit to them (Tahmoor Hardware, if anyone is curious).
Agreed when it comes to the rationale of offshoring. They move production overseas simply because the production cost and the retail price simply don't make sense anymore from a profit perspective - the idea of business being to make money - so to preserve the retail price they need to cut the production cost.
The alternative is to put the retail price up. So would you rather continue to pay the same price, or a higher price? because that quite simply is the choice faced.
A business that chooses the latter is smashed by imports, and goes under - instead of 100 people from a 150-strong workforce losing their jobs, all 150 go, and so does the expertise.
Which is prefereable under such a system? and make no bones about it, this is the system we have now. There's no alternative. And the fact that there's no alternative is entirely due to people wanting to pay less.
Eventually there will be no alternative to the no alternative, if you get the drift - once everything is made o/s, it is o/s who will set the terms. Just like what will happen when Coles and Woolies force us into their own-brand for everything - with no competion, $1/litre milk will become $2/litre milk overnight. And the punters will only have themselves to blame.
(for the record, I buy Maleny Dairies milk, it helps keep me broke but I sleep well at night)
Post of the year...
(http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/geek_pick_JPG.jpg)
Post by: jr on February 17, 2015, 08:31:55 AM
They also have to store and freight it around in possibly the most expensive freight system in the world, the longest distances.
Its cheaper to bring a 20ft container from other side of USA to Sydney port than shift it 500km within Australia.
Predatory pricing is very much alive and well and often businesses which claim to be cheapest are ONLY the case if you complain.
Australia is a very difficult place to do business and we all pay.
Post by: Bird on February 17, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Post by: Marschy on February 17, 2015, 08:35:07 AM
If you opt to do the leg work yourself and go directly to a supplier, in most instances in Australia this means overseas, this also means the inconvenience of waiting for your goods to arrive from overseas, but the savings go straight in to the consumers pocket.
In Australia we are so conditioned to buying what we want from retail outlets, that when we opt to buy directly from suppliers/manufacturers ourselves, which has been made much easier with the internet, retailers then try to make us feel disloyal for not buying products from their branded retail outlet, and some retailers try to persuade the government that only they should be buying directly from overseas suppliers and the little guy should be penalized to entice them back into their retail store. What they are trying to do is get the government to sanction extortion.
I decided a long time ago to buy consumer electronics directly from overseas, stuff brand loyalty. None of it is made here in Australia anyway, particularly electronics.
Now I know people get upset about not supporting retail outlets and the jobs they create, but I'm about getting the most bang for my buck and looking after my family. I'm not a sucker for some marketing hype that is designed to get me inside a store to make profits for someone else.
Post by: Bird on February 17, 2015, 08:37:58 AM
Retail outlets are a convenience, nothing more, nothing less. You pay a premium for that convenience. The retailer is stocking goods that they have ordered in large quantities to ensure they have adequate stock, paid for shipping and import duties, waited for the goods to arrive, paid staff to stock those goods on the shelves and then paid staff to sell the goods etc etc. Retailers attach a name to their retail outlet. This is a marketing exercise designed to attract brand loyalty either to the outlet itself, or the products that the retailer is 'marketing', be it hardware, groceries, electronics etc.
If you opt to do the leg work yourself and go directly to a supplier, in most instances in Australia this means overseas, this also means the inconvenience of waiting for your goods to arrive from overseas, but the savings go straight in to the consumers pocket.
In Australia we are so conditioned to buying what we want from retail outlets, that when we opt to buy directly from suppliers/manufacturers ourselves, which has been made much easier with the internet, retailers then try to make us feel disloyal for not buying products from their branded retail outlet, and some retailers try to persuade the government that only they should be buying directly from overseas suppliers and the little guy should be penalized to entice them back into their retail store. What they are trying to do is get the government to sanction extortion.
I decided a long time ago to buy consumer electronics directly from overseas, stuff brand loyalty. None of it is made here in Australia anyway, particularly electronics.
Now I know people get upset about not supporting retail outlets and the jobs they create, but I'm about getting the most bang for my buck and looking after my family. I'm not a sucker for some marketing hype that is designed to get me inside a store to make profits for someone else.
While you are correct, there has to be some business left in Australia for our kids to work in.
If everyone buys all their goodies on the internet from How Fuk Wow in China, then there is no future in this country.
Post by: Marschy on February 17, 2015, 08:40:41 AM
If I am willing to do the same leg work as a retailer and put the money in my pocket, what difference is there to me doing it and a retailer doing it and charging me a premium for it and putting the money in his pocket.
Post by: Marschy on February 17, 2015, 08:46:40 AM
Big problem is the retailers, like the grocery duopoloy are using the internet to dupe people into thinking that online shopping is more expensive due to the 'convenience' factor (another marketing ploy), when it is in fact its a cheaper business model to run compared to retail shopping centres
Post by: Bird on February 17, 2015, 09:39:54 AM
Quote from: Marschy
There are jobs other than retail, you do realise that, don't you?Yep, but Retail is where most kids get their foot in the door to the real world outside of the fiction they are shown at school.
Quote from: Marschy
I reckon the future for retailing will die in Australia eventually, lets face it, they overcharge because they have to pay retail rents which are killing the retail sector.Agree...
Quote
Big problem is the retailers, like the grocery duopoloy are using the internet to dupe people into thinking that online shopping is more expensive due to the 'convenience' factor (another marketing ploy), when it is in fact its a cheaper business model to run compared to retail shopping centres/quote]
I dunno about that, I reckon everyone knows online is cheaper. you'd have to be a martian to not realise that.
I don't see them showing it as more expensive, both criminals are now offering online shopping and home delivery - dunno the cost of the delivery though - but if they can close doors and be only online, they will cream in their pants...
Personally I'd love to see the farmers federation get together and open a retail chain selling Aussie made fruit and veg (if there is much left), and Aussie Meat maybe 1 state at a time.. surely it would have to be a worth while gig... although as Squalo said, everyone demands cheaper over quality.. the quality of the meat at the local butcher is 50,000 times what the Shithole Coles right next door offers and I've never noticed the price difference as I always buy from McKays Butcher if they are open - only when I miss the butcher do I go to the Shithole, and then only buy something for that night.
Post by: Swannie on February 17, 2015, 10:10:04 AM
Still haven't seen anyone explain anything but profiteering on lockers to me yet....
Its simple, supply and demand.. They put a price up and if the consumer buys, they keep pricing up until the believe its at a point where its most profitable and most likely still achieve their forecasted volumes. If the buyer keeps buying at a steep price, why would a business not try and capitalise on it as much as possible?
Swannie
Post by: ozbogwam on February 17, 2015, 08:59:24 PM
Still haven't seen anyone explain anything but profiteering on lockers to me yet....You do realise that is what a business strives to achieve, a profit?
They sell their products at a price to a market segment that is willing to pay the price. No one is forcing you buy it. They now have low budget opposition that are catering to a different market segment. It just means now that there are more players selling and buying.
Also don't think for a minute the other sellers aren't also making good profits on their goods. It's just whether they want to sell 100 items to make X amount of profit or sell 250 items to make the same profit.
When you are making cheaper copies of things you don't have to bother with R&D costs etc
Post by: Barry G on February 17, 2015, 09:19:33 PM
Post by: xcvator on February 17, 2015, 09:48:15 PM
Post by: Garfish on February 18, 2015, 06:12:49 AM
We spent a month in the States recently. An amazing (if somewhat expensive) experience. In the States I could buy a 6 pack of any good Pale Ale for about $8.00 US. A ten pack was around $13.00 US. They don't sell 24 packs.
In Oz it is nearly impossible to buy a six pack of any pale for under $15.00 AU. Some of the cheapest Pale Ales sold here are brewed overseas.
Little Creatures make a reasonable/good Pale (approx. $18.00/six pack....$70.00?/carton in Brisbane) at Uncle Dan's. Stupidly I thought a possible explanation for the high price was the tyranny of distance (meaning it has to be transported from WA after brewing). Guess what it appears the Little Creatures we get in Qld is brewed in Vic. Why the ridiculous price then? I guess it must be the gold plated hops OR is it what business can get away
Rant over.
Minimum wage in Los Angeles ~$9 per hour or a six pack,
Minimum wage in Australia ~$17 per hour or a six pack
Post by: Bird on February 18, 2015, 08:31:52 AM
Quote from: ozbogwam
You do realise that is what a business strives to achieve, a profit?
(http://makeameme.org/media/created/oh-really-tell-xfdqq9.jpg)
They are still mking a profit on the item sending it 1/2 way round the world, going through 10 sets of hands, and shipping it back to AU going through 10 sets of hands AND STILL making a profit!!!!!!!!
Post by: bobnrob on February 18, 2015, 08:39:53 AM
I'm no scholar by a long shot, and I certainly don't have the answers, but I do have a theory based on experience...unadulterated greed!
eg: 2(?) yrs ago, we went looking for a new baking dish.
Tried shop (A), being part of a 'chain' store - $5X
Tried shop (B), not part of a chain store - $16
EXACT same baking dish, exact same wrapping with exact same writing, exact same baking rack, exact same size!A quick exercise in economics.
If you buy in bulk - like Shop A - the manufacturer offers you a discount. You can then sell at a price that undercuts retailers who don't buy in bulk - like Shop B.
If you are Shop A, you can also set employment conditions that allow you to pay the lowest possible rate to your employees, and you can negotiate cheaper rent terms due to your status as a 'chain' store.
If you are Shop B, you are probably paying the going rate to your employees, because you don't have a massive legal/financial company assisting you in finding loopholes to 'adjust' your conditions of employment for maximum gain, and you might also just pay the going rate because you care about your employees.
If you are Shop A, warranty returns are no big deal. Your buying power means that you negotiated special terms with your suppliers, who really really want the business you can offer, and so who offered to take on the hassle of managing warranty problems.
If you are Shop B, you need to manage the whole warranty issue from start to finish. Every minute you spend on a warranty issue is a minute spent not working on maximising profit.
If you are Shop A, advertising/tax issues/HR issues/training/compliance are all covered by the money you send back to the parent company (the only downside of being part of a chain), and you don't need to lift a finger.
If you are Shop B, all costs are yours and yours alone.
The 'X' after the 5 represents an unknown/forgotten number, or another way $50 odd dollars.
So shop A's baking dish was min $34 dearer than shop B, when from what you wrote, it should be cheaper = "unadulterated greed"
Post by: Marschy on February 18, 2015, 08:48:33 AM
Prior to the float, Australia truly was the lucky country, now we truly are the greedy country.
Post by: Bird on February 18, 2015, 08:53:17 AM
I think most of us who participate on this forum would remember the days before the Aussie dollar was floated, after which greed became the order of the day. Executives went from salaries in the low to middle 100k's and jumped to salaries and bonuses in the 1M's. I think from memory they used to earn 10-20 times more than the average wage, now they earn more than 100 times the average wage.(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/099/5/d/hit_the_nail_on_the_head_by_donkirk-d3dkmcm.gif) actually :'( :'( :'(
Prior to the float, Australia truly was the lucky country, now we truly are the greedy country.
Post by: Swannie on February 18, 2015, 11:08:40 AM
I think most of us who participate on this forum would remember the days before the Aussie dollar was floated, after which greed became the order of the day. Executives went from salaries in the low to middle 100k's and jumped to salaries and bonuses in the 1M's. I think from memory they used to earn 10-20 times more than the average wage, now they earn more than 100 times the average wage.
Prior to the float, Australia truly was the lucky country, now we truly are the greedy country.
Yep those bloody Execs >:D
swannie
Post by: Bird on February 18, 2015, 11:16:48 AM
Quote from: swannie
Yep those bloody Execs >:DDo you need an assistant or trainee?? Im ready willing and able.. afterall your mega overworked.
swannie
Post by: BadSeed on February 18, 2015, 03:09:25 PM
I bought all my camera gear from HK. It worked out about 1/3 cheaper than the best AU price. I couldn't have afforded the gear I have in Australia.
I asked a photography retailer (independent) about the mark up for AU and he said the prices are set by the suppliers. He can't even buy stock for the price I can get he gear from HK.
The suppliers charge the retailers what they think the market will bear.
I go to the US for work once every couple of years and I take an empty suitcase inside another one.
Last time I came home with 8 pairs of shoes. Mostly Vans and Converse for my kids at $30 each but also school shoes, clothes and a pair or runners for my wife.
I bought a pair of running shoes for myself for $99 the same pair are $240 here, that's no small mark up.
Billabong and Crumpler are two Australian businesses that spring to mind as being notably cheaper in the States than at home.
I asked Crumpler about this. Here is the exchange (and yes, it's bullShit):
"Price enquiry: Hi Please can you tell me why the 8 million dollar home camera/laptop bag is $48 more expensive in Australia than the US?"
"Hello <whingey arse>,
The price appears to be more expensive because the US price doesn’t include all the sales taxes they add when it comes to purchasing the bag."
This has generated a culture where people go into shops and try clothes and shoes on, try out electronics, ask advice etc then go home and buy the gear online.
I find that pretty bad form and it doesn't sit well with me, but at the end of the day it's down to the bottom line and I can see why people do it.
They just see the cheaper dollar amount and think the shop keeper is gouging the price.
Obviously this can't continue and the real cost is the loss of the independent retailer.
It's a shame, but I don't have any answers I shop online and I buy when I'm overseas, like I said, for most people it comes down to the bottom line.
The future sadly looks like online shopping, Coles, Woolworths, Target, Kmart, SAB Miller and CUB.
Post by: MDS69 on February 18, 2015, 03:59:51 PM
We were in the US in 2013. We went to Walmart for an experience. Looking at softball gloves there was one for $28.00US plus tax probably. I wasn't sure what glove to get as it was my first one and wanted to talk to n experienced person so waited until I got back home and went to a baseball/softball shop. The exact same glove I looked at in Walmart was over $90.00 in Aus.
Post by: ozbogwam on February 18, 2015, 06:25:26 PM
(http://makeameme.org/media/created/oh-really-tell-xfdqq9.jpg)
They are still mking a profit on the item sending it 1/2 way round the world, going through 10 sets of hands, and shipping it back to AU going through 10 sets of hands AND STILL making a profit!!!!!!!!
Yes but only because they are selling loads more due to a much bigger market.
Seriously you have been going on and on about this for years and no answer is ever going to satisfy you. You obviously aren't a customer that falls into their business plan so why go on about it? Or just buy it from the US
Post by: ozbogwam on February 18, 2015, 06:26:44 PM
Still no answer to the ARB question ??? ??? ???
Yes it's been answered many times in this and other threads but it seems the answer isn't what many want to hear so apparently it is "wrong"
Post by: alnjan on February 19, 2015, 05:04:59 PM
http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/yes-australia-is-expensive-but-there-are-fringe-benefits-if-you-live-here/story-fnagkbpv-1226630603809 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/yes-australia-is-expensive-but-there-are-fringe-benefits-if-you-live-here/story-fnagkbpv-1226630603809)
I know they are a bit old and give lots of figures but it all comes down to basic economics, not so much as a lot of other reasosn
Post by: koshari on February 21, 2015, 03:34:16 PM
Post by: muzza01 on February 22, 2015, 08:41:55 AM
There is a clear difference between profit and profiteering.Exactly :cup:
Still no answer to the ARB question ??? ??? ???
That's right. I have read a whole lot of BS and "who shot John" but no answer as to why an Oz company continues to rip us off.
Post by: D4D on February 22, 2015, 08:48:42 AM
...but no answer as to why an Oz company continues to rip us off.
Because they can. If you have a problem with it, you should have purchased shares 5 years ago.
That said they're running at 12% profit after tax so they are not exactly 'profiteering'.
Post by: ozbogwam on February 22, 2015, 09:01:26 AM
Exactly :cup:
That's right. I have read a whole lot of BS and "who shot John" but no answer as to why an Oz company continues to rip us off.
Yes there have been the answer you just choose to not accept it
They aren't ripping you off, just don't buy their stuff. You don't need any of their products so I fail to see why this is such a huge issue
Post by: Garfish on February 22, 2015, 09:10:41 AM
Exactly :cup:Are they?
That's right. I have read a whole lot of BS and "who shot John" but no answer as to why an Oz company continues to rip us off.
For the last 6 months to dec 31, ARB are making approx 12% after tax on sales. And about the same based on gross assets invested. ( with the average Aust govt bond rate at 6.8% over the last 40 odd years this utilising this as a risk free return on investment. ARB are currently making 5% above the average risk free rate)
Reasonable returns, but shrinking, in. The 6 months to dec in the prior year, it was ~14% on sales
Real estate now that is a rip off, how can an ageing house requiring increasing maintenance cost increase in value.? Therefore anyone who has ever sold a house is ripping off everyone.
Post by: xcvator on February 22, 2015, 09:17:26 AM
Yes it's been answered many times in this and other threads but it seems the answer isn't what many want to hear so apparently it is "wrong"Sorry Oz, it has NOT been answered. Market size has absolutely nothing to do with it either. If 500 units of a product is made here that manufacturing cost is fixed at that point.
You then send 200 of those units to market in Australia at $1500-00 each and the remaining 300 units to the USA at $500-00 each
WHY is there a price difference, WHY isn't the price very similar. How can a product made here be shipped 1/2 way around the world, shipped to various warehouses/distribution centers then sent back to Australia individually and still be cheaper than the same product on Australian retailers shelves
It's called price gouging , and a lot of businesses see Australia as a sucker market, Adobe is 1, Apple is another, ARB is another and that's the tip of the iceberg, yes you can sit back and say "don't buy the product", but what about the people and businesses that NEED the product, why should we have to pay double or triple the overseas prices ??? ??? ??? ??
Post by: xcvator on February 22, 2015, 09:20:30 AM
Are they?I'd like to see their accounting procedures , you've heard the expression "rubbery figures"
For the last 6 months to dec 31, ARB are making approx 12% after tax on sales. And about the same based on gross assets invested. ( with the average Aust govt bond rate at 6.8% over the last 40 odd years this utilising this as a risk free return on investment. ARB are currently making 5% above the average risk free rate)
Reasonable returns, but shrinking, in. The 6 months to dec in the prior year, it was ~14% on sales
Post by: ozbogwam on February 22, 2015, 09:24:00 AM
Market size has everything to do with it as does pricing structures where some U.S. companies are willing to take a hit on the price to get a customer
Post by: D4D on February 22, 2015, 09:56:26 AM
I'd like to see their accounting procedures , you've heard the expression "rubbery figures"
Rubbery figures went out with Enron for public companies. Directors and Auditors now face jail terms if the numbers are found to be 'rubbery'. Now your average private small business, have a look there for some 'rubbery' figures.
Post by: Moggy on February 22, 2015, 10:04:46 AM
Now your average private small business, have a look there for some 'rubbery' figures.
Yeah... thats it, lets all now attack small business, God knows there "all" ripoff ba $tards. They probably still think Glen Mcgrath is a good bloke
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Post by: Garfish on February 22, 2015, 10:49:22 AM
Rubbery figures went out with Enron for public companies. Directors and Auditors now face jail terms if the numbers are found to be 'rubbery'. Now your average private small business, have a look there for some 'rubbery' figures.
Or personal income tax returns now that's some rubbery accounting
Sent from my fingers via my brain
Post by: muzza01 on February 22, 2015, 11:43:50 AM
Yes there have been the answer you just choose to not accept it
They aren't ripping you off, just don't buy their stuff. You don't need any of their products so I fail to see why this is such a huge issue
I am not making it a huge issue, just posting my opinion on a thread like you have.
That's right, there have been answers to whigh I choose not to accept as rational or justifiable. A lot of forum members from LCOOL have imported ARB gear from the US saving a fair amount of coin, a shame they just couldn't get it in Oz.
You will get no arguement that ARB make quality gear but the whole locker thing being a lot cheaper in the States is crap.
Post by: shanegtr on February 23, 2015, 12:03:49 AM
why should we have to pay double or triple the overseas prices ??? ??? ??? ??Thats the beaty of the internet and global shopping - you dont have to pay it if you can handle the wait for shipping. Obviously to ARB it makes absolutly no difference if you buy a locker here or overseas as either way they are selling the same number of lockers - it just hurting the local retailers instead.
Post by: Artie01 on February 23, 2015, 08:47:50 AM
Thats the beaty of the internet and global shopping - you dont have to pay it if you can handle the wait for shipping. Obviously to ARB it makes absolutly no difference if you buy a locker here or overseas as either way they are selling the same number of lockers - it just hurting the local retailers instead.
I actually don't agree with this, ARB would MUCH rather that you pay the higher prices in Aus and allow them to make a MUCH higher unit profit margin, but the US market is so large they have to do, what they have to do, to get a market share (unit volume).
As was mentioned earlier, the manager of the Ford production line in Thailand when asked about the disparity between the cost of a Ford Focus in Thailand compared to Australia (almost twice) his response was pricing DOES NOT reflect a fixed percentage over costs, its purely down to what the relevant economy can afford to pay.
Same US vs Aus costs....we are called the lucky country for a reason..... wanna go to the US and become ill/or injured without private health??? (yeah, I know we are threatening something similar).
Post by: Marschy on February 23, 2015, 10:10:20 AM
I actually don't agree with this, ARB would MUCH rather that you pay the higher prices in Aus and allow them to make a MUCH higher unit profit margin, but the US market is so large they have to do, what they have to do, to get a market share (unit volume).I don't think Thailand has a free trade agreement with Australia, what I do know is they have a 60% import tarriff on vehicles in to Thailand that hasn't helped anyone but Thailand.
As was mentioned earlier, the manager of the Ford production line in Thailand when asked about the disparity between the cost of a Ford Focus in Thailand compared to Australia (almost twice) his response was pricing DOES NOT reflect a fixed percentage over costs, its purely down to what the relevant economy can afford to pay.
Same US vs Aus costs....we are called the lucky country for a reason..... wanna go to the US and become ill/or injured without private health??? (yeah, I know we are threatening something similar).
Post by: Artie01 on February 23, 2015, 10:32:41 AM
Post by: D4D on March 03, 2015, 12:16:36 PM
Interesting perspective...
The economy is struggling to grow because Australians get too much pay, too much annual leave and are too hard to fire, an American economist says.
Post by: Bird on March 03, 2015, 12:52:17 PM
http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-workers-overpaid-hard-to-fire-says-us-economist/story-fncynjr2-1227245882063 (http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-workers-overpaid-hard-to-fire-says-us-economist/story-fncynjr2-1227245882063)yep... its no surprise why we cant compete
Interesting perspective...
The economy is struggling to grow because Australians get too much pay, too much annual leave and are too hard to fire, an American economist says.
Post by: muzza01 on March 03, 2015, 12:57:32 PM
http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-workers-overpaid-hard-to-fire-says-us-economist/story-fncynjr2-1227245882063 (http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-workers-overpaid-hard-to-fire-says-us-economist/story-fncynjr2-1227245882063)
Interesting perspective...
The economy is struggling to grow because Australians get too much pay, too much annual leave and are too hard to fire, an American economist says.
Ouch, 2 weeks annual leave ??? . I just negotiated with my employer for 6 weeks per year. I couldn't survive on two.
Post by: Garfish on March 03, 2015, 01:39:16 PM
Ouch, 2 weeks annual leave ??? . I just negotiated with my employer for 6 weeks per year. I couldn't survive on two.
Where I worked previously. The RDO's and 5 weeks annual leave were taken in blocks of 5 weeks every 8 month for the manufacturing staff, , for each 6 roles we needed a seventh person to cover the leave.
Post by: hainess on March 03, 2015, 05:10:13 PM
Longest time off in 1 stretch is 10 days.
2004 family holiday.
2011 cataract surgery.
2014 family holiday.
But i do enjoy long weekends when I can organise them.
The bottom line is, I don't work, I don't get paid. End of story.
No 4 weeks paid,plus bonus,Holiday.
No paid public holidays.
No paid sick leave.
No employer paid super.
No paid long service.
Thats why I charge $90 an hour. ;D
Rod
.
Post by: HuskyInAuz on March 03, 2015, 08:21:04 PM
Ouch, 2 weeks annual leave ??? . I just negotiated with my employer for 6 weeks per year. I couldn't survive on two.
Seriously... too much TV and just plain media hysteria, there is a lot of variation. US Goverment workers have three stages of vacation accumulation plus holidays. Get to leave group 3, in 6 years and you end up taking 3-5 weeks a year off.
Private companies vary but in general most competitive IT after 3 years your getting at least 3 weeks plus holidays, many 'shutdown' over the Christmas and New Years holidays which is not included in leave (holiday). After 10 years I had a 3 month sabbatical (aka long service) and I sat at the same table as the CEO.
And .. I'm actually off to the old country for 8 weeks if you want a on-the-ground perspective from Oregon. ;)
Be safe all!
Post by: dales133 on March 04, 2015, 05:45:13 AM
I have been self employed for the last 30 years.X2
Longest time off in 1 stretch is 10 days.
2004 family holiday.
2011 cataract surgery.
2014 family holiday.
But i do enjoy long weekends when I can organise them.
The bottom line is, I don't work, I don't get paid. End of story.
No 4 weeks paid,plus bonus,Holiday.
No paid public holidays.
No paid sick leave.
No employer paid super.
No paid long service.
Thats why I charge $90 an hour. ;D
Rod
.
Post by: Bill on March 04, 2015, 06:10:51 AM
Seriously... too much TV and just plain media hysteria, there is a lot of variation. US Goverment workers have three stages of vacation accumulation plus holidays. Get to leave group 3, in 6 years and you end up taking 3-5 weeks a year off.
Private companies vary but in general most competitive IT after 3 years your getting at least 3 weeks plus holidays, many 'shutdown' over the Christmas and New Years holidays which is not included in leave (holiday). After 10 years I had a 3 month sabbatical (aka long service) and I sat at the same table as the CEO.
And .. I'm actually off to the old country for 8 weeks if you want a on-the-ground perspective from Oregon. ;)
Be safe all!
All the above is true for the small minority, but your average worker (90% of the workforce) only get 2 weeks per year.
Excluding when I was in the Military I only ever got 2 weeks off in the 20 years I worked before moving here.
You could have knocked me over with a feather when I saw all the holidays I was entitled to and my pay rate when I got my first job here. And it was just a crap job at Target.
Bill