Author Topic: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney  (Read 5753 times)

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Offline BigAl63

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G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« on: November 03, 2020, 07:03:54 AM »
Hi All,

You have a really great forum here ;D
Over time I hope I can contribute in addition to seeking advise.

I've been searching CT's for some time now. I was initially going to go with a Cub Frontier Forward Fold as they tick all my boxes as well as setup on their own footprint.
However, after doing some calcs I feel they are too heavy (though lighter than most/all imported FF's) for what I'd like to tow.
I'm now keen on a Cub Escape though Rear fold.
Interestingly, Cub have just released a lighter FF, Cub Scout.
My main issues with the Scout is that it has smaller wheels 15" (option 16") and 8 leaf spring/shock suspension instead of the larger 17" wheels and independent suspension on the Escape.

I seek your advise/experience on 2 issues please:

1. Are rear folds really a pain wrt always needing level ground to setup on and the size of the footprint they need wrt Forward Folds ??
2. The age old suspension question, leaf spring v independent. Wanting as much flexibility as possible regarding off road travel locations, I think independent suspension would be a better choice these days. Views ??

Any information is much appreciated.

Cheers and thank you,  Al

Offline GeoffA

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2020, 07:58:33 AM »
Hi Al,

Welcome to MySwag. Hope you enjoy your time here.

"I. Are rear folds really a pain wrt always needing level ground to setup on and the size of the footprint they need wrt Forward Folds ??"

I've never understood this one...nothing more than sales pitch IMO...but then I don't get the attraction to forward-folds, either.

"2. The age old suspension question, leaf spring v independent. Wanting as much flexibility as possible regarding off road travel locations, I think independent suspension would be a better choice these days. Views ??"

There are plenty of leaf-sprung campers out there. They are just as capable as independently sprung units. Either style will take you wherever you want to go. The quality of components and construction is more important than leaf/ind. Gayly-coloured swing-arms/springs, and multiple shocks, will impress your mates more than a simple black leaf setup, though....

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 08:07:00 AM by GeoffA »
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Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2020, 10:00:18 AM »
Thanks Geoff.
I appreciate your feedback and welcome.

Regarding leaf suspension, what seems wrong to me when I look at the Cub Scounts leaf suspension is a camper which could have had significantly more ground clearance if it wasn't for a lowish axle waiting to get snagged.

Is this not something to take into account when considering leaf v ind ??

Cheers Al

Offline GeoffA

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2020, 10:31:21 AM »
....
Regarding leaf suspension, what seems wrong to me when I look at the Cub Scounts leaf suspension is a camper which could have had significantly more ground clearance if it wasn't for a lowish axle waiting to get snagged.

Is this not something to take into account when considering leaf v ind ??

Cheers Al

Hi Al,

What car will you be towing with? Chances are that the car will snag long before the trailer, no matter what suspension is under the trailer.

 :cheers:
Geoff and Kay

1999 GU TD42T wagon
2005 Coota Camper - gone, but never forgotten
2020 North Coast 15' Titanium - tandem, of course

Land Cruiser.....the Patrol that Toyota try to build.....

Offline Bird

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2020, 10:33:44 AM »
It all depends where you intend to go.
Theres thousands of campers with leaf going all over the place... High Country, Simpson, Central, Flinders, Cape etc..
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Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2020, 11:50:42 AM »
Hi Al,

What car will you be towing with? Chances are that the car will snag long before the trailer, no matter what suspension is under the trailer.

 :cheers:

Hi Geoff,
My tow rig is a Toyo FJ Cruiser with a lift.
Cheers

Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2020, 11:56:51 AM »
It all depends where you intend to go.
Theres thousands of campers with leaf going all over the place... High Country, Simpson, Central, Flinders, Cape etc..

Hi Bird,
Thats the thing....I'd like to be able to go where ever I want but I know that's a broad brush approach and possibly unrealistic. Having said that, I'm not into towing anything on hugely technical tracks.
I guess my question could be where couldn't i go with leaf sprung suspension where ind would be better ??

Cheers Al

Offline paull

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2020, 12:54:05 PM »
We had a Cub Escape with leaf spring suspension and it towed excellently. It didn't seem to bounce around too much, even on really crappy roads, and I barely knew it was there at all. In terms of where it will go, I would say pretty much anywhere a sane person would take one. Is there a chance the axle will get hung up? Absolutely, but if it does a little bit of rock packing will sort that out. Have a look and measure the ground clearance under the axle, and then compare that measurement to the under-diff measurement from your FJ. Unless the camper is significantly lower than the diff on the FJ then I'd say it'll be fine.
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Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2020, 06:48:01 AM »
Hi Paul,

Thanks for the feedback  ;D.
Having owned a Cub Escape yourself, can I ask:
1. What year of build ??
2. Any issues / concerns ??
3. Any advice for a future owner ??
4. How did you find owning a rear fold - was it a pain needing to always find flat ground for setup ??

Cheers Al

Offline GeoffA

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2020, 07:00:32 AM »
My tow rig is a Toyo FJ Cruiser with a lift.

Hi Al,

I believe FJ Cruisers have a one piece rear door.
If you go for a forward fold, make sure you can open the rear door of the car with the camper hitched and set up.
Having to unhitch every night to access the back of the car would be painful.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 07:07:22 AM by GeoffA »
Geoff and Kay

1999 GU TD42T wagon
2005 Coota Camper - gone, but never forgotten
2020 North Coast 15' Titanium - tandem, of course

Land Cruiser.....the Patrol that Toyota try to build.....

Offline plusnq

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2020, 07:11:53 AM »
Hi Al,

I believe FJ Cruisers have a one piece rear door.
If you go for a forward fold, make sure you can open the rear door of the car with the camper hitched and set up.
Having to unhitch every night to access the back of the car would be painful.

 :cheers:

Definitely a consideration. It’s so nice to stay hitched up for an overnight stay.


Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2020, 07:32:48 AM »
Hi Al,

I believe FJ Cruisers have a one piece rear door.
If you go for a forward fold, make sure you can open the rear door of the car with the camper hitched and set up.
Having to unhitch every night to access the back of the car would be painful.

 :cheers:

Thanks Geoff.
I definitely have this on my list.
I would need an extended drawbar on a FF which adds weight which is another reason I'm favouring a RF.
Cheers Al

Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2020, 07:34:09 AM »
Definitely a consideration. It’s so nice to stay hitched up for an overnight stay.

I hear you.
Cheers

Offline paull

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2020, 08:56:13 AM »
Hi Al,

No problem. There were many things (like the way it towed, and how basically solid it was) that I was really impressed with. There were a few other details that I wasn't so impressed with. To answer your points:

1) I think it was a 2015 build.

2) There were a few things I found with the trailer that bugged me. None were huge issues, but they bugged me as all of them were things that I would have expected Cub would have fixed and sorted out years ago, given that they have been building essentially the same core design of trailer for a long long time.

- Water leak into drivers side rear door - We had a tropical roof fitted which was great for keeping the temperatures down, minimising condensation, and making it a little quieter in the rain BUT the way the water ran off the tropical roof when it rained was not well considered. The tropical roof basically funnelled the water off in a way that it ran down the side of the camper (inevitable), BUT it ran down on top of the drivers side rear door. The door construction was such that it had additional layers of canvas stitched onto the outside of the main canvas and the water ran down directly on top of these extra layers of canvas. The extra layers of canvas essentially formed a little ledge, maybe 2-3mm wide, and the water ran down on top of this, so it was inevitable that water would get in eventually, and when it did it there was a lot of water wicked through this canvas that ran down the door zips and then flooded the rear fold floor. Without the tropical roof this would never have been a problem but it obviously wasn't wondered when they added the tropical roof. I did sort it by getting some flexible glue-like sealant and running that along the top off the door canvas but this didn't look great and shouldn't have been needed if they had thought about the design properly.

- Tension on canvas. In a similar vain to the first point, the added weight of the tropical roof, plus the small amount of downward force you need to apply to it to keep tension on it then forces the front end of the tent down. This made it impossible to keep a suitable amount of tension on the front canvas sections. Again, without the tropical roof it likely wouldn't have been an issue, but once fitted it was an easy problem to foresee. The lack of tension in the canvas caused it to sag inwards, made worse when it was wet. If we hadn't had the extra wide camper (see comments below) this wet canvas would then have been touching our bedding. This problem could potentially be solved by adding some vertical braces under the front tent bow, but this its something that should have been sorted from the factory rather than me having to find my own solutions, and in the end we sold the camper before I got around it.

- Annex poles. I didn't like the way the annex poles fitted to the side of the camper canvas by basically pushing the against the internal tent boxes and then holding them in place with velcro. I understand that this allows them to fix in place without needing holes in the main canvas wall, but it meant that the annex poles were "fixed" to canvas which can move around and slide over the internal tent bows. This meant that again it was difficult to maintain proper tension in the annex roof as any breeze would cause the annex poles to slip off their location against the tent bows.

This is not to say that these aren't good campers. They have many good attributes and given the length of time they've been on the market they must be a good product, but these things did bug me all the same as they seem like simple things to fix if people had bothered to try.

3) One thing I'd advise is go for the one with the bigger trailer. I might get the names wrong here, and they've changed them all since we had ours, but when we got ours I think there was the Brumby which was the smaller trailer (smaller in length and width) and then the Escape which was bigger. The extra size is definitely worth it. You get more space at the end of the bed for packing things in, and you have say 100mm between the sides of the bed and the canvas. That space is good for putting your phone on etc, but also keeps your bedding away from the canvas so it doesn't soak in any condensation. That extra length and width then also gets added to the rear fold section as well which makes a surprising difference to the amount of floor space you have. I think the Escape was wide enough to fit bunk beds across the trailer, whereas the Brumby wasn't.

4) I had no issues with finding sufficiently flat ground for the rear fold as it had adjustable legs so that aspect was fine. In theory I liked the idea of the forward folds more initially, given that they already had a lounge set up inside, and they folded out within their own footprint. However, in the end we preferred the greater flexibility the rear fold offered in using the space inside the tent. We were able to have a daughter (only 1 year old at the time) sleeping inside with us, and still have plenty of space to move around her. This would have been more difficult in the forward fold.

All in all it was a good solid trailer, but I'd probably not buy another one.
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Offline BigAl63

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Re: G'Day fro Northern Beaches, Sydney
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2020, 12:35:32 PM »
G'day Paul,
Thank you mate for taking the time to provide a detailed account of your experience with the camper.
Much appreciated  :cheers:
Cheers, Al

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