Author Topic: Raining  (Read 13921 times)

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Offline Foo

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Re: Raining
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2022, 12:37:56 PM »
Fork!  :'(

Foo
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Offline alnjan

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Re: Raining
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2022, 06:07:57 PM »
Mind you I live in Adelaide in the driest State of the driest continent so for me it's a case of- Come to sunny Queensland, raining one day pissing down the next!
When in God's name are you dopey easterners ever gunna build yourselves some more bloody dams to stop drowning yourselves?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/australia-s-woke-internationalist-green-laws-are-creating-misery/ar-AAUB6WJ

I could easily done all bar one major problem.   Most of the feeder rivers into the Clarence are in some type of National Park or World Heritage or some other endangered thing.  The battle with the greens and ever other party would ensure nothing gets done.   

For example the Clarence Valley and Coffs Councils end up in some strange partnership regarding their water supply.  With all the choices of water supplies to choice from the Dam is on a quaint little backwater creek adjacent to a Nature Reserve in the boondocks no one can find. 

In the mid 1920s there was a Hydro Power Station built off one of the feeder Rivers.  It has since closed through lack of maintenance over the decades.  Now with the push for renewables the potential is all there but no interest.    All that water just washing Communities to see.   
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline Hairs

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Re: Raining
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2022, 07:57:46 PM »


In the mid 1920s there was a Hydro Power Station built off one of the feeder Rivers.  It has since closed through lack of maintenance over the decades.  Now with the push for renewables the potential is all there but no interest.    All that water just washing Communities to see.
Al, As far as I can gather from our councils minutes of meetings, Clarence Valley Council.
Coffs and CVC are partners, ratepayers bought the asset, but it,s not an asset unless they utilise it.

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Offline alnjan

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Re: Raining
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2022, 08:20:38 PM »
Al, As far as I can gather from our councils minutes of meetings, Clarence Valley Council.
Coffs and CVC are partners, ratepayers bought the asset, but it,s not an asset unless they utilise it.

Yeah not sure what they intend to do with it.  I remember going there in maybe early 1970s when it was still operational, very interesting. 

My main point was in the 1920s we could build hydro plants and now we can't.   Just seems something wrong there.
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline Hairs

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Re: Raining
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2022, 08:24:28 PM »


My main point was in the 1920s we could build hydro plants and now we can't.   Just seems something wrong there.
Seems easier to tax people and make them feel good about that, then to actually invest in infrastructure for generations to come. 
Hmm

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Offline Bird

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Re: Raining
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2022, 10:05:54 PM »
Seems easier to tax people and make them feel good about that, then to actually invest in infrastructure for generations to come. 
Hmm
wait till ya insurance renewal comes in... even those in south aussie where it hasnt rained in generations
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Offline Hairs

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Re: Raining
« Reply #81 on: March 06, 2022, 06:21:09 AM »
wait till ya insurance renewal comes in... even those in south aussie where it hasnt rained in generations
After the Locker Valley Flooded in 09?
NRMA, quadrupled our home insurance, because our postcode is the same as Grafton's(there are 30 villages that share the 2460 postcode). We had plead to have a rep site visit to show them that if we were to have water across our property, the East Coast would be 40 foot under water.
A rep did site visit and our policy was adjusted. But over the last 13 years it has risen, like everybody else has.
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Offline austastar

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Re: Raining
« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2022, 08:25:00 AM »
Hi,
  <brainfart>
Abolish flood insurance totally.
Make it an all or nothing wager that water will rise to an agreed level on your house in the next year.
Bookies do an onsite visit and offer their odds.
Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.
</brainfart>

Cheers

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Offline Bird

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Re: Raining
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2022, 09:50:53 AM »
Hi,
  <brainfart>
Abolish flood insurance totally.
Make it an all or nothing wager that water will rise to an agreed level on your house in the next year.
Bookies do an onsite visit and offer their odds.
Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.
</brainfart>

Cheers
:cup:
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Offline edz

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Re: Raining
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2022, 09:54:33 AM »
From memory,  if you could find an insurance company that would take you on.. they reckon Its roughly $30.000 + a year for a house / bussiness around here ..even then there are conditions in the policy .
One of the biggest problems around here has been the coucil / NSW government, not listening to the locals ..NSW gov built a nice Highway ............. right across the known flood plains of the valley, Now dams the water / raises the height of the floods and sends it with more flow in towards residential areas = more houses underwater than would have before it was built .. Council stopped the dredging of the river and other feeder areas  about 30 + years ago ] no more scowering of sediment ] resulting in a river with aprox 30'  of silt build up ..Ocean going freighters  used to be able to get up to the main bridge at murwillumbah ..
Just a few things that add to higher floods ..

« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 09:56:50 AM by edz »
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Offline Bird

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Re: Raining
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2022, 11:24:04 AM »
Quote from: edz
One of the biggest problems around here has been the coucil / NSW government, not listening to the locals

but but a nice young man with computer simulator who has never visited within 500klms of the area said the locals were wrong /sarcasm
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 11:27:06 AM by Bird »
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Offline GBC

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Re: Raining
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2022, 04:22:36 PM »
Hi,
  <brainfart>
Abolish flood insurance totally.
Make it an all or nothing wager that water will rise to an agreed level on your house in the next year.
Bookies do an onsite visit and offer their odds.
Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.
</brainfart>

Cheers

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Flood cover was mandated by state governments - who clearly do not understand that, as you mooted, insurance is quite simply gambling. We all pay for those who bought in flood zones now.

Offline Hairs

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Re: Raining
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2022, 05:27:05 PM »
Hardest thing to do when helping,
Is pick their stuff up, walk it out to the road, while they watch you and throw it on a pile that is their life. :(
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 05:55:28 AM by Hairs »
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Offline Rowlie

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Re: Raining
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2022, 08:14:22 AM »
Flood cover was mandated by state governments - who clearly do not understand that, as you mooted, insurance is quite simply gambling. We all pay for those who bought in flood zones now.
Most insurers have the ability to price down to the actual address now. Technology no longer requires postcode rating that is highly inaccurate. The software relies on satellite imagery that measures topographical heights above potential flood sources. The same system can determine bushfire potential, land slope, tree fall risk and so on. So it is highly likely that those who are flood prone will see some premium movement following the current event. The rest won't notice much change ie it is now mainly user pays.

The problem with insuring flood is that everything else the policies cover can happen to anyone (to lesser or greater extents) but flood can only affect people who live near water courses, flood plains etc. That is why insurers left it out for so long. Whilst governments didn't actually mandate it - they can't force private enterprise - there was a lot of pressure brought to bear. They were warned that insurers could only include it on a "one in all in" basis - ie you couldn't do it as an option. In other words be careful what you wish for.

People in Northern Australia pay astronomical premiums due to cyclone exposure. I pay a loaded premium due to bushfire and flood prone customers are similarly impacted.

No insurer will pay more that $100m for this current event but their reinsurers will be picking up the vast majority of the $2b bill that is forecast. It is the reinsurers who will whack the insurance companies when their premiums come due and that is passed on to us.

The reality is we are such a small population its hard to socialise the cost of the risks we face. Govts aren't sitting on their hands entirely. They are trying to improve the cyclone insurance problem, they have built levees and are continuing to try to improve flood mitigation and bushfire management measures are being considered. But Mother Nature is a tough beast to manage.
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Offline elver

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Re: Raining
« Reply #89 on: March 10, 2022, 06:47:50 PM »
My house in Lismore had 4.5m water over ground level. That’s 2.5m inside the living area.

Well, flood insurance for my house in Lismore is $13000 premium per annum. That’s more than the annual rent.  The sales pitch is it covers for flood. On questioning it covered for burnt out fixed electrical motors,only. Nothing else!!! Not structural damage, not for destruction of the house, not for restoration.  Funnily enough I didn’t pay the premium.

I do have standard insurance $3500 per year.  This is now invalid until the house has been restored from flooding.  (I.e it’s got people living in it again)

The house cost $135,000.

The flood cover offered is not insurance.  It’s a tax.  Simply not affordable.  It’s not an option for me as a landlord and certainly not for my tenants.

Now the important part, my house was built pre 1910 from second hand Timbers. It’s 2m off the ground. It’s all wood. Weatherboard walls, single skin timber internal walls, Power in from the roof and nothing built under the house. No gyprock anywhere. (This is intentional). There’s no insulation In The walls.  There is darling and aircell in the cieling (not batts)
It’s a flood house and is made to get wet every now and then.

My flood recovery has taken 7 solid days, with 16 man days of effort. Not a single cent of govt assistance will come my in way. (As a landlord)

The house has been emptied of the tenants stuff. (Soooo much stuff - all gone to the bin because they weren’t prepared for a flood 2m higher than the mental ceiling got the highest flood in written history) we pressure washed the house inside, hosed it out the knot holes in the hoop pine floor. We Scrubbed the walls by hand with detergent and anti fungal potions. Threw out the carpets (never again to have carpets fixed down) and we’ve begun the bleaching and drying process.

Fans are running on a geni with a dehumidifier.
The house is now cleaner than it’s been since 1974.  Moist, but soon to be dry.

In terms of capital cost, I bought a second hand oven and new hot water thermostat.
I replaced all power points and fan controls (precautionary approach for power stuff)
Electrical checks / replacements will cost $2000 or so.
I’ll need to repaint it some time but that’s overdue.

Total cost to me will be less than a single annual insurance premium.  So clearly my story is not the common one.

Tenants will be back in within 3 weeks when it’s dry.  They are very very keen not to be homeless!

Now I’d rather it didn’t happen , and it’s cost me a heap of stress, but contrast my story with the new build houses with plaster walls and pine studs and it’s a very different story. They are close to knock down and years off from being fixed.

I strongly believe we need to build for immersion or build floating houses.  Floodplain towns won’t go away. They are real towns and we aren’t China - we won’t move whole towns.   And we won’t force people to sell them at a loss - that will get politicians sacked and they don’t like that.

Floodplain living is a reality. We need to build to conditions and then have less stuff to get ruined. 
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Offline alnjan

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Re: Raining
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2022, 07:35:26 PM »
Thanks elver for a locals perspective.   It does show that building to go under water makes a lot of difference. 

Can the Council make that part of the building code for future buildings with the new (plus extra) flood level to help reduce the total damage to keep and maintain the township?
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline elver

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Re: Raining
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2022, 07:50:04 PM »
They could. Funnily enough a lot of the rubbish on the road is crap from under peoples houses. Stuff stored where it will get wet when it floods.  Stuff the know will get washed away.. but they seem to buy / hoard it anyway.

Now I know it’s tempting to fill ever space that’s below a roof, but the illegal flats under houses, the man caves of those who don’t remember the last big flood, and the insatiable drive to maximise houses in Australia makes people fill in bits the council has not approved.  Nearly every  elevated house in Lismore is built in under. It’s damn crazy.

What’s needed are council rules, and then follow up compliance checks for preparedness.    I doubt the new breed of ‘freedom loving’ Aussie’s who seem to be more present than ever in regional Australia will stand for that level of govt (community) intervention. 

Timber and fibro can do immersion. Steel and tin too. 
But insulation,  gyprock, chipboard, yellow tongue, plaster, rendered blue board and bricks are terrible.
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Offline austastar

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Re: Raining
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2022, 08:01:56 PM »
Hi,
   A friend built this house some 40 years ago.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Mnu8DPYZmSEefsNK7

Yep, it is on a flood area by Mountain River. He had lived nearby and had seen the river rise to nearly the road.
It is a simple rectangle, living/kitchen one end, bed rooms the other. Quotes came in as affordable, so he had it raised on Besserblocks for a garage under, roller doors north and south underneath. Power points downstairs hang from the ceiling and light switches are string pull.
If flooding is expected, cars go up the hill and roller doors are left open for the water to flow through.
Well it hasn't flooded to my knowledge, (he sold it some time ago).
We can build for flood prone areas with planning, developers need to stop selling glossy brochure/catalog houses to be plonked on totally unsuitable real estate.
Cheers

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 08:05:49 PM by austastar »

Offline elver

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Re: Raining
« Reply #93 on: March 10, 2022, 08:09:09 PM »
Nice.  Thought out design.

Check out the size of the river cobbles that that river moves, then look at the distance the little house isn’t from the river rocks!!

Offline alnjan

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Re: Raining
« Reply #94 on: March 10, 2022, 09:25:24 PM »
They could. Funnily enough a lot of the rubbish on the road is crap from under peoples houses. Stuff stored where it will get wet when it floods.  Stuff the know will get washed away.. but they seem to buy / hoard it anyway.

Now I know it’s tempting to fill ever space that’s below a roof, but the illegal flats under houses, the man caves of those who don’t remember the last big flood, and the insatiable drive to maximise houses in Australia makes people fill in bits the council has not approved.  Nearly every  elevated house in Lismore is built in under. It’s damn crazy.

What’s needed are council rules, and then follow up compliance checks for preparedness.    I doubt the new breed of ‘freedom loving’ Aussie’s who seem to be more present than ever in regional Australia will stand for that level of govt (community) intervention. 

Timber and fibro can do immersion. Steel and tin too. 
But insulation,  gyprock, chipboard, yellow tongue, plaster, rendered blue board and bricks are terrible.

I have known of others in a flood area that did enclose the downstairs area but it was with all concrete/brick and outdoor paving on the floor.  their idea was after the flood they could just wash it out.  There are options, people just have to be willing to change for the location
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline MarkGU

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Re: Raining
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2022, 07:28:10 PM »
Here's something to ponder.
When there was a crisis in the past, the music industry was the first to come to the rescue with aid for different causes in the past.
Now, during covid, this industry has not been allowed to function. BUT, the NRL was free to carry on.
Wonder if we will see the NRL part with some aid to help those who lost everything in the floods?
My guess they wont.
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Offline rags

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Re: Raining
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2022, 10:01:56 PM »
Here's something to ponder.
When there was a crisis in the past, the music industry was the first to come to the rescue with aid for different causes in the past.
Now, during covid, this industry has not been allowed to function. BUT, the NRL was free to carry on.
Wonder if we will see the NRL part with some aid to help those who lost everything in the floods?
My guess they wont.

Just seen the NRL chief on the flood appeal,telecast urging the NRL fans donate but not one word about the NRL donating.

Offline paceman

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Raining
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2022, 07:08:28 AM »
Just seen the NRL chief on the flood appeal,telecast urging the NRL fans donate but not one word about the NRL donating.
They started a fund with $500,000… and are working with clubs to do so as well…

Sydney Roosters and Broncos have donated $50,000 each to help local communities… willing to bet other clubs will, as well…

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/03/10/nrl-flood-relief-to-continue-throughout-round-1/


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« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 07:12:38 AM by paceman »

Offline GBC

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Re: Raining
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2022, 01:58:52 PM »
Thanks elver for a locals perspective.   It does show that building to go under water makes a lot of difference. 

Can the Council make that part of the building code for future buildings with the new (plus extra) flood level to help reduce the total damage to keep and maintain the township?

The trick is getting a layer of control between the councils and the developers who lobby them to be able to turn wet horse paddocks into multi res estates - logan city council …..
The QLD state government drilled all the major flood plains in the 60’s and 70’s and has very accurate data. (Brisbane river has had 28 metre high floods somewhere prior to the last 200 years…..)
Flood modelling is all done.
Satellite mapping for floods is all done.
Early settlement towns like Lismore, Ipswich, Maryborough and Gympie I feel sorry for (traveston crossing dam isn’t looking too bad anymore hey?) but there is absolutely zero reason for modern housing to be flood affected apart from people forgetting hard lessons.

Offline Bird

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Re: Raining
« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2022, 02:21:38 PM »
Quote from: paceman
They started a fund with $500,000… and are working with clubs to do so as well…

Sydney Roosters and Broncos have donated $50,000 each to help local communities… willing to bet other clubs will, as well…

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/03/10/nrl-flood-relief-to-continue-throughout-round-1
thumbs up to em.

I reckon its a great start... theres a **** load of people all they now own is what they are wearing


Time for everyone to go through their clothes and donate what they arent going to use anymore.. did thata when I moved house last yr... surprised how many bags of gear there was 
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