Post by: matthecat on January 04, 2019, 04:56:42 PM
Have recently had a Liberty petrol station open near me and they have been selling diesel for some 20-30 c per litre cheaper than the competition.
Filled up before a recent Christmas trip and have a gut feeling I used more fuel than usual.
My theory was based on our annual Coral Bay trip where I am able to get from Perth to Billabong R/House before fuelling up whereas I reckon I would have been struggling this time - this is just on a casual fuel gauge basis between Perth & Horrocks.
Was towing our camper loaded up as usual , weather was a lot hotter (say 42c this time v 20c in July) - no other obvious variances.
Question - could the cheaper fuel be because it's inferior?
Regards
Edit - spelling/grammer
Post by: KingBilly on January 04, 2019, 05:04:14 PM
KB
Post by: lloydus67 on January 04, 2019, 05:39:03 PM
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Post by: KingBilly on January 04, 2019, 05:40:59 PM
KB
Post by: Champin on January 04, 2019, 06:00:31 PM
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Post by: lloydus67 on January 04, 2019, 06:02:23 PM
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Post by: Champin on January 04, 2019, 06:05:23 PM
Caltex cheerfully admit their diesel is only 46 cetane rating, Shell is 49 cetane, and BP is 51 cetane. Biodiesel blends have a higher cetane rating with 51 cetane as the minimum.What does cetane do, and does it make much difference?
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Post by: Hookie on January 04, 2019, 06:08:23 PM
Post by: lloydus67 on January 04, 2019, 06:20:38 PM
What does cetane do, and does it make much difference?It’s your bang for your buck
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It’s the amount of power available like octane
I agree that your wasting your time and money buying premium diesel, as the video suggests, not much but an anti foaming additive in it
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Post by: glenm64 on January 04, 2019, 06:24:50 PM
I see all brands of fuel tankers coming and going from the fuel farm including the occasional BP trucks too.
Cheers Glen
Post by: Champin on January 04, 2019, 06:28:04 PM
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Post by: Paddler Ed on January 04, 2019, 07:59:17 PM
I've not noticed a major decrease in fuel economy that I can pinpoint to the cheaper fuel, certainly my cost per KM isn't changed.
In my signature is the Fuelly for my 4Runner; that's been tracked over 100,000km whilst the diesel Land Cruiser has about 10,000km of fuel history.
Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 04, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
I normally run United fuel with the occasional tank of BP if nothing else is available. Now, not that I have ever checked it out but I have been told that United buy what ever fuel is the cheapest. Again, not sure if that's true or not..
But, two points.. The truck 'seem' to run better and further on the United. Second point, every two tanks or so, I drop in 2 stroke engine oil, (mineral only) at 300:1 ratio.
When pulling the van I can actually notice the difference in smoothness and pulling. (torque??)..
Also, we do a lot of trips out west where we only use Puma fuels, usually filled up at unmanned road train pumps.
Bottom line is. I have an anaroid system fitted to the injection pump controlled by boost pressure and switched via an electrical solenoid effectively giving me the choice of two fuel maps. Out west using Puma we sit on around 110 -120kph and dont use the higher fuel map unless we are passing a train (or a 200 series towing half a house). But in the occasional times where we have needed to fuel up with BP or Caltex, the anariod is left switched on.. So, I guess it's a case of make of it what you think..
Post by: KingBilly on January 04, 2019, 08:28:18 PM
http://www.environment.gov.au/protection/fuel-quality/standards/diesel (http://www.environment.gov.au/protection/fuel-quality/standards/diesel)
KB
Post by: KingBilly on January 04, 2019, 08:29:48 PM
There are only four (4) refineries in Australia.
Altona, Vic - Mobil
Geelong, Vic - Viva (private equity company which bought out the Shell refinery and distribution network)
Lytton, Qld - Caltex
Kwinanna, WA - BP
So in summary, oils may not be oils Sol, but diesel is diesel :D
KB
Post by: KingBilly on January 04, 2019, 08:34:05 PM
So not really a major player in the domestic market
KB
Post by: rossm on January 04, 2019, 09:07:17 PM
With a notebook and pencil in the glovebox of the FJ.
With around 160,000km of records from a Ford Ranger and now a Prado and fuel bought in many places from Kununurra to Birdsville the last thing I think is a factor is the brand of fuel.
I reckon it’s all about the right foot. I drive for safety, not economy, so I am regularly five or even 10 percent under the posted limit. But drive either car all day at the limit or a bit above, and the fuel use jumps markedly. Particularly if there is a load on board.
If I am home I would be lucky to do 100km some weeks and diesels are not ideal for running to the local shops. Probably should walk or get a bicycle.
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on January 04, 2019, 09:27:46 PM
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2019, 09:30:44 PM
Quote from: matthecat
Question - could the cheaper fuel be because it's inferior?Simple answer - Yes it *could*. Not saying it is, but anything is possible... you could send a sample of it off for testing if you really want.
Bloke at work has done 3 tanks of Aldi petrol from near the airport, and 3 tanks of BP near work and in his words - he gets noticeable different range from the 2 locations. this is in Suby Forester GT.
Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 04, 2019, 10:50:42 PM
So not really a major player in the domestic market
KB...""
Hmmmm... Just wondering if maybe (just maybe) that's why Puma fuels out west seem to be better??? We are running about the same weight each trip.. The weight of the Hilux, with about 1/2 tonne of gear in the back and about 1600Kg of van.
Fuel up at Eromanga, then Quilpie, then Charleville. Runs about 14L/100K at 110-120kph. Then fuel at Roma (Caltex), Then Dalby (Caltex), runs about 17L/100K. Then Gatton (BP). Runs about 18L/100K at 100Kph (or lower with all the traffic from Dalby to Toowoomba). Top of the torque band is 2900RPM. 110Kph = 3100RPM.
Post by: GeoffA on January 05, 2019, 05:47:46 AM
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on January 05, 2019, 06:21:18 AM
Post by: gronk on January 05, 2019, 08:08:32 AM
Australia imports around 50% of its diesel.
KB
And that's another topic......if we only import 1/2 of our diesel, why are we paying full market price for it ?
Arab countries make 100% of their fuel and pay almost zero for it......why aren't we paying 50% for our diesel ?
We could be the lucky country if the powers that be didn't give our assets away !!
Post by: krisandkev on January 05, 2019, 08:38:43 AM
Post by: Shippo on January 05, 2019, 10:09:06 AM
Here in Perth there is only the BP refinery and an import fuel farm. I work next door to it and the fuel is imported through one berth.
I see all brands of fuel tankers coming and going from the fuel farm including the occasional BP trucks too.
Cheers Glen
I used to work on the BP tankers that loaded up at the Kwinana refinery. We would then deliver fuel to interstate ports and discharge to all the major fuel companies...Mobil..Shell..Caltex etc. Once it was discharged into their tanks it had their own additives mixed in, but it's all originally BP fuel.
Post by: KingBilly on January 05, 2019, 10:42:19 AM
And that's another topic......if we only import 1/2 of our diesel, why are we paying full market price for it ?
Arab countries make 100% of their fuel and pay almost zero for it......why aren't we paying 50% for our diesel ?
We could be the lucky country if the powers that be didn't give our assets away !!
Think you are missing a few key facts. An estimated 91 per cent of Australia's transport fuel (petrol and diesel) is imported either as oil to be refined in Australia or as refined fuel products.
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Rural_and_Regional_Affairs_and_Transport/Transport_energy_resilience/Report/c02 (https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Rural_and_Regional_Affairs_and_Transport/Transport_energy_resilience/Report/c02)
KB
Post by: achjimmy on January 05, 2019, 10:48:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKxLOTVEnI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKxLOTVEnI)
KB
Tuned out when I saw that John cadogan dude. His just a human headline
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2019, 01:08:47 PM
Quote from: Shippo
.... and discharge to all the major fuel companies...Mobil..Shell..Caltex etc. Once it was discharged into their tanks it had their own additives mixed in, but it's all originally BP fuel.I used to do the same with coolant from ICI Botany to a factory out west sydney - tanktainers of the stuff... 2 bottling lines - 5 different companies - just a different colouring in the coolant!
Post by: bullfrog on January 05, 2019, 05:52:23 PM
Gronk brings up a question based on the % you stated, but all of a sudden the % is now 91% , yet Gronk is wrong on his facts ??? I'm not real bright mind, so please type with one finger. How is Gronk wrong based on your figures that you posted but he's "missing the acts" ????
Post by: KingBilly on January 05, 2019, 06:10:50 PM
KB, in post #14 you state that "Australia imports around 50% of its Diesel"
Gronk brings up a question based on the % you stated, but all of a sudden the % is now 91% , yet Gronk is wrong on his facts ??? I'm not real bright mind, so please type with one finger. How is Gronk wrong based on your figures that you posted but he's "missing the acts" ????
Yep, you are right, you are not a real bright mind Mr Bullfrog. I suggest you re-read what I posted. But just for you, I will type really slow with just one finger.
I originally posted that Australia imports 50% of its diesel. Just for you Mr Bullfrog, that is diesel, the stuff refined from oil and readily available from a service station.
Gronk posted
....if we only import 1/2 of our diesel, why are we paying full market price for it ?
Arab countries make 100% of their fuel and pay almost zero for it......why aren't we paying 50% for our diesel ?
To which I responded,
An estimated 91 per cent of Australia's transport fuel (petrol and diesel) is imported either as oil to be refined in Australia or as refined fuel products.Emphasis added for your benefit Mr Bullfrog.
Can you see the difference now? The other 50% of diesel used in Australia is refined in Australia from both oversea’s sourced oil or from the small percentage sourced from Australia.
My response was to debunk Gronk’s conspiracy post about why aren’t we only paying 50% for our diesel.
Happy now Mr Bullfrog?
KB
Post by: bullfrog on January 05, 2019, 07:20:37 PM
Post by: KingBilly on January 05, 2019, 07:23:14 PM
Yep , I did re read your post ( I shut 1 eye so as to match my typing ability). Nowhere did I see a quote of 91%, just the 50% you stated before being questioned by Gronk. Once again, why state one thing if you mean something else ? You where questioned on what YOU quoted, nothing more. Now you want to shift the goal post to suit your needs & do your best to belittle people for asking. Gee, you sure must be a clever bloke Mr Billy or is that Mr King? Whichever it is in your mind good luck to you,you're waaay to smart for this poor dumb pr!ck. As Mrs Browm would say "That's nice""
WTF, have another read in the morning mate. No idea where you are getting this sh!t from. You are confusing two very different facts. Have a good night.
Oh and it is King, not Mister. Check your history.
KB
Post by: Hairs on January 05, 2019, 07:33:51 PM
Oh and it is King, not Mister.Did I,
Miss something
(cheers)
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Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 05, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Post by: xcvator on January 05, 2019, 07:44:36 PM
Now, this may start one of those sit down with a big bag a popcorn sessions.. But, I have a Hilux with a very highly modified diesel. Old school mechanical injection ect. ect.WTF ?
I normally run United fuel with the occasional tank of BP if nothing else is available. Now, not that I have ever checked it out but I have been told that United buy what ever fuel is the cheapest. Again, not sure if that's true or not..
But, two points.. The truck 'seem' to run better and further on the United. Second point, every two tanks or so, I drop in 2 stroke engine oil, (mineral only) at 300:1 ratio.
When pulling the van I can actually notice the difference in smoothness and pulling. (torque??)..
Also, we do a lot of trips out west where we only use Puma fuels, usually filled up at unmanned road train pumps.
Bottom line is. I have an anaroid system fitted to the injection pump controlled by boost pressure and switched via an electrical solenoid effectively giving me the choice of two fuel maps. Out west using Puma we sit on around 110 -120kph and dont use the higher fuel map unless we are passing a train (or a 200 series towing half a house). But in the occasional times where we have needed to fuel up with BP or Caltex, the anariod is left switched on.. So, I guess it's a case of make of it what you think..
Post by: Pottsy on January 05, 2019, 07:49:26 PM
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2019, 07:56:25 PM
WTF ?You cant say you've never heard this one before ??? theres been 213098423948230984
Post by: xcvator on January 05, 2019, 07:57:59 PM
Post by: KingBilly on January 05, 2019, 08:04:00 PM
I've just done a couple of quick calculations. Over the last 20 years of my working life I've used approximately 260,000 liters of diesel, and I've never noticed any difference in quality or consumption over that time and just filled up where it was cheapest :D
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
And therin ends the lesson for today. Class dismissed.
KB
Post by: Steffo1 on January 05, 2019, 08:24:03 PM
I've just done a couple of quick calculations. Over the last 20 years of my working life I've used approximately 260,000 liters of diesel, and I've never noticed any difference in quality or consumption over that time and just filled up where it was cheapest :D
But, is a liter the same amount as a litre? >:D
Gallons aren't gallons, depending where you are.
Post by: rockrat on January 05, 2019, 08:26:49 PM
But, is a liter the same amount as a litre? >:DAre you suggesting it could be Fake News? ;D
Gallons aren't gallons, depending where you are.
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2019, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: xcvator
Over the last 20 years of my working life I've used approximately 260,000 liters of dieselI thought the Jackaroo was petrol? :D
Post by: xcvator on January 05, 2019, 08:38:10 PM
I thought the Jackaroo was petrol? :D
Der :-*
Post by: Alan Loy on January 05, 2019, 08:38:33 PM
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2019, 08:39:45 PM
Der :-*no wonder you went through so much diesel.. I think... :D
Post by: xcvator on January 05, 2019, 08:42:16 PM
But, is a liter the same amount as a litre? >:D
Gallons aren't gallons, depending where you are.
A liter is a litre is a liter, but american spell checkers don't like litres :cheers:
Post by: xcvator on January 05, 2019, 08:45:28 PM
You cant say you've never heard this one before ??? theres been 213098423948230984argumentsdiscussionsthreads no it in the past!
WTF, again, why ?
Post by: Paddler Ed on January 05, 2019, 08:50:31 PM
Having gone through the grief of a bad batch of fuel (it was Shell) I would buy from any brand that would guarantee that that wouldn't happen again. I think that is unlikely to happen.
And if one the ways to guarantee that you don't get a bad batch is to get fuel from a servo that is regularly turning over stock, I'd say where I am that rules out Shell... they seem to have the least customers out of all the servos in town. They also have the highest price...
Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 05, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Time to chill out...
Post by: gronk on January 05, 2019, 09:58:36 PM
Yep , I did re read your post ( I shut 1 eye so as to match my typing ability). Nowhere did I see a quote of 91%, just the 50% you stated before being questioned by Gronk. Once again, why state one thing if you mean something else ? You where questioned on what YOU quoted, nothing more. Now you want to shift the goal post to suit your needs & do your best to belittle people for asking. Gee, you sure must be a clever bloke Mr Billy or is that Mr King? Whichever it is in your mind good luck to you,you're waaay to smart for this poor dumb pr!ck. As Mrs Browm would say "That's nice""
I didn't reply because I was confused as well ?? If we produce 50% of our own diesel, that only leaves 50% we need to import . Wasn't brilliant at maths 40yrs ago, but thought I had 2+2 down pat ????
Post by: alnjan on January 05, 2019, 10:08:43 PM
Post by: GeoffA on January 05, 2019, 10:14:48 PM
And that's another topic......if we only import 1/2 of our diesel, why are we paying full market price for it ?
......
IPP....Import Parity Pricing.... was adopted years ago.
Locally produced oil is priced to match the global market.
The intent being to keep it here, rather than it being sold on the open market.
Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 05, 2019, 10:40:23 PM
WTF, again, why ?
Oh hell.. Here goes...... With the pump and injectors that I'm running, it works for me... I can remember a time when we shoved moth balls into the fuel tank...
Mind you,, the moths used to get pretty pissed off about it.. ;-)..
Post by: kylarama on January 06, 2019, 12:39:36 AM
14 years (& 300,000km) in a mechanical injected diesel and I've never been able to spot the difference between brands.
After 5 months and 17,000km in a brand new Dmax. I've been using Shell 95% of the time. 6-7 tanks has been the more expensive 'premium' diesel.
Still can't spot a difference and economy hasn't changed a bit...
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Post by: KingBilly on January 06, 2019, 04:53:40 AM
I didn't think we refined any of 'our' crude anymore, that it was all sent overseas so we had to pay more for it to get it back.
Think the IOR refinery is located where it is to refine Jackson oilfield crude or whereever it comes from out there. Not sure about the other four refineries.
KB
Post by: Hairs on January 06, 2019, 05:41:16 AM
I didn't think we refined any of 'our' crude anymore, that it was all sent overseas so we had to pay more for it to get it back.
I thought this was the case.
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Post by: Champin on January 06, 2019, 06:45:55 AM
As for the price I pay at the pump, I have no control over that (way above my pay grade), but I've figured the difference between $1.30/ltr and $1.40/ltr is only $7.00. I use around a tank and a half per week so that equates to not enough to get my panties in a twist over.
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Post by: KingBilly on January 06, 2019, 07:31:32 AM
I didn't think we refined any of 'our' crude anymore, that it was all sent overseas so we had to pay more for it to get it back.
An estimated 91 per cent of Australia's transport fuel (petrol and diesel) is imported either as oil to be refined in Australia or as refined fuel products.
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Rural_and_Regional_Affairs_and_Transport/Transport_energy_resilience/Report/c02 (https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Rural_and_Regional_Affairs_and_Transport/Transport_energy_resilience/Report/c02)
I guess from the above link that Australia refines about 9% of its total transport fuel from Australian sourced crude oil. But that is just a guess, I couldn’t find a link to confirm this.
KB
Post by: KingBilly on January 06, 2019, 07:48:44 AM
Not trying to be a smart arse here but if some people are running refined cooking oil in their diesels, is the quality of pump fuel really that much of an issue? As I said in a previous post, driving habits seem to have more of an influence on economy than brand of fuel.
As for the price I pay at the pump, I have no control over that (way above my pay grade), but I've figured the difference between $1.30/ltr and $1.40/ltr is only $7.00. I use around a tank and a half per week so that equates to not enough to get my panties in a twist over.
Not sure if recycled cooking oil is the best option for a modern common rail diesel but your point is certainly valid.
For example, 15,000 km per year @ 10 litres per 100km equals 1500 litres per year. Say you pay an extra 10 cents per litre to buy BP instead of Liberty, that is a saving of only $150/year or only $2.90 a week. Not a deal breaker for me, less than a cup of coffee, and I really don’t have the time to be chasing all over town to save that $2.90. I do acknowledge however that $2.90/week may be significant if you are struggling.
KB
Post by: Alan Loy on January 06, 2019, 08:04:33 AM
Poor quality or contaminated fuel is usually 99% of the time cause by transport or site storage. Pick your servo, not the brand of servo. A newish, busy servo with high turnover is a safer bet.Probably good advice but I picked up crook fuel at a large newish frantically busy fuel station on the Hume Hwy @ Mickleham
Post by: KingBilly on January 06, 2019, 08:10:25 AM
Probably good advice but I picked up crook fuel at a large newish frantically busy fuel station on the Hume Hwy @ Mickleham
Just after the tanker had been and stirred up all the crap in the bottom of the tanks???
Bit hard to work around that though unless you happen to be there at the same time as the tanker and not 2 minutes after it has driven off.
I have been told that service stations have filters on their fuel lines betwen the tanks and bowsers. If that is correct, and it is a high turnover servo, then maybe their filter maintenance is a bit slack. Wonder of anybody can confirm if there are filters?
KB
Post by: Bird on January 06, 2019, 11:24:10 AM
WTF, again, why ?
(http://jfgi.herokuapp.com/images/bart.gif)
Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 06, 2019, 10:14:47 PM
Post by: Bird on January 07, 2019, 07:23:57 AM
Hey Bird... Do you poke your finger at funnel web spiders as well???... :-) ;-)why back in my day we used to eat funnel webs while walking 50 miles through snow barefeet while pushing a wheelbarrow to school....
Post by: matthecat on January 07, 2019, 08:55:12 AM
Certainly opened up a few cans of worms and a few point for me to consider.
Was talking to someone who did the same trip at around the same time and he thought the wind would blow the dog off a chain. Normally I'd do the bulk of the trip in the early hours of the morning rather than middle of the day so suspect (on reflection) the cause was driving into a head wind.
Regards
Post by: macca on January 07, 2019, 09:10:22 AM
Fast running out of popcorn here..
Time to chill out...
Hey Bird... Do you poke your finger at funnel web spiders as well???... :-) ;-)Its OK, Bruce and Keefy are just like brothers
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Post by: Brisbane Puff on January 07, 2019, 10:20:25 PM
Its OK, Bruce and Keefy are just like brothers
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Yeah, but so were the Soparano's and for that matter,,, the Corleone's .... ;-)... (damn,l I cant seem to get the emojis to work)...
Post by: xcvator on January 08, 2019, 07:30:16 AM
Post by: Beachman on January 08, 2019, 01:02:35 PM
I have been told that service stations have filters on their fuel lines betwen the tanks and bowsers. If that is correct, and it is a high turnover servo, then maybe their filter maintenance is a bit slack. Wonder of anybody can confirm if there are filters?
KB
One of my mates owns a small servo and before Xmas he was telling me how he was getting his tanks professionally cleaned. That meant getting each take fully drained so any water/gunk is removed and then fresh fuel put in.
Not a cheap exercise, but he is trying to get a reputation of selling quality fuel.
Post by: Bird on January 08, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
You calledmore like
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yO7mBSdBH7g/hqdefault.jpg)
Post by: Bird on January 10, 2019, 10:57:34 AM
https://au.news.yahoo.com/drivers-furious-service-station-sells-petrol-made-mostly-water-235700519.html
Post by: #jonesy on January 17, 2019, 07:17:06 PM
https://www.facebook.com/1183913519/posts/10217730375269490/ (https://www.facebook.com/1183913519/posts/10217730375269490/)