Took a Great Wall for a test drive

[theflyingbadger]

find me a RMW store in Townsville

• Horseland Townsville
  Ph:61 7 4775 5377
  Fx:
  205 Ross River Road
  AITKENVILLE TOWNSVILLE,4814
• Donohues - Townsville
  Ph:61 7 4775 5144
  Fx:
  230 Charters Towers Road
  TOWNSVILLE ,4810
• John Melick & Co
  Ph:61 7 4771 2292
  Fx:
  481 Flinders Street
  TOWNSVILLE,4810

[9775Andrew]

thanks
I'll get me some boot scooting pants

[Redback]

• Horseland Townsville
  Ph:61 7 4775 5377
  Fx:
  205 Ross River Road
  AITKENVILLE TOWNSVILLE,4814
• Donohues - Townsville
  Ph:61 7 4775 5144
  Fx:
  230 Charters Towers Road
  TOWNSVILLE ,4810
• John Melick & Co
  Ph:61 7 4771 2292
  Fx:
  481 Flinders Street
  TOWNSVILLE,4810

Australian or not, I refuse to pay $70 to $120 for a shirt that cost $20 to make

[Alloy C/T]

RMW shirts Australian made ! Yes Yes Yes made from Australian grown cotton that is loomed and dyed in , wait for it ,,,, CHINA.

[terravista]

Sure, they probably use robots somewhere in their manufacturing process, but if you're thinking that there are a handful of production workers milling around a sea of robots that are putting together their vehicles....... well, that's something out a science fiction movie.  Even with the use of robots, people still play a big part in most manufacturing processes.  When Mitsubishi were still making cars here in Adelaide they employed approximately 1500 assembly line workers... even though they used robots in their assembly process.  Don't forget we're only talking about the assembly of the vehicle here, there are thousands of other people involved in the manufacturing of components and sub assemblies for the vehicle, external to the vehicle manufacturer themselves.  Taking this into consideration, the true amount of total labour hours for building a car would more likely be a 1000 man hours, not 100 man hours.  On this basis, getting away with paying people a pittance really pays off. 

I would have thought that 1000 man hours for a car, at the previously quoted price of $50 per hour would mean a labour content of a Commodore would be $50000. Add on the parts, and a car would exceed $70000.
Doesn't sound feasible to me, no matter what sort of Government compensation was involved.

[craigtempo]

Maybe these great wall 4x4,s are the lada niva,s of our times .

craig

[rotare]

I would have thought that 1000 man hours for a car, at the previously quoted price of $50 per hour would mean a labour content of a Commodore would be $50000. Add on the parts, and a car would exceed $70000.
Doesn't sound feasible to me, no matter what sort of Government compensation was involved

Good point terra vista, however you have just demonstrated "cherry picking".  You have taken some of what I said, and added to what someone else said to come up with your conclusion above.

In post 11 I said

An average Australian worker working in the car industry would earn around $25/hr.

And in post 33 I said

Taking this into consideration, the true amount of total labour hours for building a car would more likely be a 1000 man hours

On this basis the labour cost would equate to $25,000..... a little more feasible perhaps?  But whether the labour cost is $25 /hr, or $23.65/hr and the man hours 1000hrs or 835hrs the point is there is a huge difference in labour costs between something made overseas (like China) and something made here in Australia.

[rotare]

great wall 2.4l petrol 4cyl
100kW @5250rpm
200Nm @2500-3000rpm

as long as you dont want to be a speed demon the diesel will pull 3 tonne easily

Not sure whether it would tow 3 tonne easily, with 200nm of torque thats only 18 more than a Mazda 3!     Not overly impressive performance stats by any means IMO.

[TheOtherLeft]

I've only done work on 1 great wall, that was fitting a bullbar. Build quality under the bumper didn't look too bad, but the paint work around joins and seams etc was very ordinary, it already had rust appearing around the front seams where the front guards met the rad cross panel. This car was only 3 weeks old.

Sounds like a Landrover Defender...

[torsion]

And you base this observation on personal experiance?
Please tell us why they are crap and maybe save someone some agravation.
Bill and Morag

read the reviews or maybe just read the 4 pages here. 

[NewcastleKnight]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=68536

[Bill]

read the reviews or maybe just read the 4 pages here. 

I asked what you based your opinion on for a reason.
I was hoping you might have first hand experiance with them
I have seen and read media reviews (tv, magazine, dvd etc.) and the 4 pages of posts here.
My conclusion is 1/2 the media reviews favor the GW and 1/2 dont.
And there are more reviews favoring the GW almost monthly.
But we all know that media reviews are mostly based on the amount of money manufacturers spend on media advertising.
The more a manufacturer spends on media advertising the better the review.
The 4 pages of posts here are about 50-50.
I would like first hand personal experiance from owners or people who have driven them for awhile...
Bill and Morag

[Juggs]

Good point terra vista, however you have just demonstrated "cherry picking".  You have taken some of what I said, and added to what someone else said to come up with your conclusion above.

In post 11 I said
And in post 33 I said
On this basis the labour cost would equate to $25,000..... a little more feasible perhaps?  But whether the labour cost is $25 /hr, or $23.65/hr and the man hours 1000hrs or 835hrs the point is there is a huge difference in labour costs between something made overseas (like China) and something made here in Australia.

a commodore is assembled in 8 hours travel time on the production chain, this does not include time for paint drying
labour to make parts is already in the cost of the parts
you may have 2 guys putting a engine in taking 1 houreach or  1 guy putting in a windscreen 15mins etc
no way 1000 individual man hours more like 50 individual man hours

my uncle works at fishermans bend in part supplier liason

[Gonewalkabouts]

Unless you have actually had one and used it for a while, can provide first hand experience of being an owner you will find alot of people talking s___t based on personal opinion with no real quantifiable evidence.

No one is going to know what they are truely like until they have been in the market out here for a while.

Ive seen arguements on the flood of chinese motorcyles, Quads etc flooding this country. There is alot of crap ones out there where the manufacturer has no Quality Control.

I did a fair bit of personal research on this and have found some of the higher standard manufacturers (cream of the crop) from the many crap ones, produce motobikes, Quads and parts which are of good quality. The company I bought my chinese motobike from manufacturers parts for BMW bikes and some of the Jap bike companies (but this is the minority from a crap majority).

Please note I own a few bikes including a good quality Suzuki off road bike and a chinese bike Thumpstar 125 cc 4 stroke for the kids which I also ride 120 KG Max rider load. I have had the chinese bike for 2 years now (not expecting much from it), I have riden it quite a bit, including cruising around paddocks and narrow trails on trips away hunting and fishing.

In the 2 years Ive had it, the only problem Ive had is a flat tyre, some minor tuning and replacing 1 leaking fuel line. I can say that bike has paid for itself with the number of hours Ive riden it over the last years amd lasted far longer than I expected which is a bonus for me. I still ride my Suzuki but like the Pit Bike for mucking around and when my loading for trips is limited. My camper trailer holds 2 x bikes and have used both in mud, creeks and climbed hills chasing feral pigs all over NW NSW.

The Great Wall of China 4x4 is going to be an interesting case study to watch wehter they hold up to what they claim or another lemon. I wouldnt compare them to our traditional 4x4, yet I know too many people who are yuppie 4x4 owners and have seen pathetic photo's of a wanker in an office job bragging he was hard core 4x4 driving on the weekend and the photo's show nothing more than a clean Disco with 1 tyre in 6 inches of water from a mud puddle. Those yuppie owners or soft 4x4 owners dont do anything too hard so the Great Wall 4x4 might have a market for people who wont flog them too much.

Resale I imagine will be crap, but for those prices I would proabably run it into the ground.

Just my 5 cents worth

Gonewalkabouts

[rotare]

no way 1000 individual man hours more like 50 individual man hours

Based on your statement, if only 50 man hours goes into building a car, then at $25/hour are you saying the total labour cost for building a car in Australia would be $1250?

Have I missed something?   

[Juggs]

Based on your statement, if only 50 man hours goes into building a car, then at $25/hour are you saying the total labour cost for building a car in Australia would be $1250?

Have I missed something?   

50 man hours for assembly on the production line
all i know is a shell goes in and 12 hours later its a rolling vehicle ready to be sold

you have design quality control and i assume hundreds of other people involved before it gets to the assembly stage so a little bit of everything they do is factored into the cost

and tbh i doubt the sell price is realistic as the money is in service spare parts and add ons and trying to upsell you from the poverty pack base models

[StevenM]

50 man hours for assembly on the production line
all i know is a shell goes in and 12 hours later its a rolling vehicle ready to be sold

you have design quality control and i assume hundreds of other people involved before it gets to the assembly stage so a little bit of everything they do is factored into the cost

and tbh i doubt the sell price is realistic as the money is in service spare parts and add ons and trying to upsell you from the poverty pack base models

would be about right.

Problem is the 500 hours of supervisor, lower level manager, middle level manager and the list goes on of guys on 80-100k plus that adds to the cost.

[Juggs]

Unless you have actually had one and used it for a while, can provide first hand experience of being an owner you will find alot of people talking s___t based on personal opinion with no real quantifiable evidence.

No one is going to know what they are truely like until they have been in the market out here for a while.

Ive seen arguements on the flood of chinese motorcyles, Quads etc flooding this country. There is alot of crap ones out there where the manufacturer has no Quality Control.

I did a fair bit of personal research on this and have found some of the higher standard manufacturers (cream of the crop) from the many crap ones, produce motobikes, Quads and parts which are of good quality. The company I bought my chinese motobike from manufacturers parts for BMW bikes and some of the Jap bike companies (but this is the minority from a crap majority).

Please note I own a few bikes including a good quality Suzuki off road bike and a chinese bike Thumpstar 125 cc 4 stroke for the kids which I also ride 120 KG Max rider load. I have had the chinese bike for 2 years now (not expecting much from it), I have riden it quite a bit, including cruising around paddocks and narrow trails on trips away hunting and fishing.

In the 2 years Ive had it, the only problem Ive had is a flat tyre, some minor tuning and replacing 1 leaking fuel line. I can say that bike has paid for itself with the number of hours Ive riden it over the last years amd lasted far longer than I expected which is a bonus for me. I still ride my Suzuki but like the Pit Bike for mucking around and when my loading for trips is limited. My camper trailer holds 2 x bikes and have used both in mud, creeks and climbed hills chasing feral pigs all over NW NSW.

The Great Wall of China 4x4 is going to be an interesting case study to watch wehter they hold up to what they claim or another lemon. I wouldnt compare them to our traditional 4x4, yet I know too many people who are yuppie 4x4 owners and have seen pathetic photo's of a wanker in an office job bragging he was hard core 4x4 driving on the weekend and the photo's show nothing more than a clean Disco with 1 tyre in 6 inches of water from a mud puddle. Those yuppie owners or soft 4x4 owners dont do anything too hard so the Great Wall 4x4 might have a market for people who wont flog them too much.

Resale I imagine will be crap, but for those prices I would proabably run it into the ground.

Just my 5 cents worth

Gonewalkabouts

and once they have sorted the issues the pricin will be still low but at a figure you have to decide to i spend 5k to get to the next heapest vehicle

im scpetical and i think they are buying into the market the chinese government controls almost everything exported and will advise on pricing and supply nos

we import roughly one 40 foot container of product from china every 2 weeks and we have to pay a cooperative run by the chinese government and cannot discuss pricing with th emill we buy from, quality order no etc we do but everything else its a gov official

[UIZ733]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/113966/2011-great-wall-x240-v240-upgrades-for-australia/
A diesel engine (110KW?) with automatic transmission. Could be interesting.

[MDS69]

I'm under no preconceptions that the Great Wall will be comparable with your LC, Patrol, Hilux,etc...

What's got me really thinking though is the fact that the price difference doesn't equate to the difference in materials and quality.
If Great Wall can make a profit from the X240 at $24K then why is a brand new Kluger, challenger, pathfinder, etc.. $50K+? The profit margin must be huge on these vehicles. I just can't see an extra $25K worth of vehicle.

Maybe in time as Great Wall (and others) improve their cars the Toyota and Nissan will rethink the pricing structure on their cars and come back to something more reasonable.

....hmmmm..... maybe not

probably more likely that Great Wall will increase their prices once they get themselves bedded in the Australian market

Sorry guys I will say upfront I haven't read all 5 pages but I think some of the price difference can be attributed to older technology engines (mentioned before here) and also when Great Wall get a piece from here and a piece from there (not quite the same result as the interceptor ) they are buying technology that has had the patents run out. That is they don't have to fork out for R&D on all these components like chassis, body panels, interior trims etc

[griz066]

http://www.ancap.com.au/results?make=47&model=0&vehicleyear=0

4 Stars is ok with me. My Triton has 4 stars

[RebsWA]

Unless you have actually had one and used it for a while, can provide first hand experience of being an owner you will find alot of people talking s___t based on personal opinion with no real quantifiable evidence.

Couldn't agree more and applies to a lot more than just this thread IMO.

[terravista]

A previous statement had a response about power in a BT50.

Holy Crap.

160 million kilometres in 18 months in a BT50 towing an excavator.
That's some travelling. Averaging around 290 thousand kilometres a day, I'd like to see a Great Wall do that.

[toad]

A previous statement had a response about power in a BT50.

Holy Crap.

160 million kilometres in 18 months in a BT50 towing an excavator.
That's some travelling. Averaging around 290 thousand kilometres a day, I'd like to see a Great Wall do that.

 What helps his ability to cover that much ground is the excavator has two toones. Maybe music makes the time fly faster.

[tonyw]

Interesting!

http://youtu.be/PKA0y5CZcAc