MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: feisty on May 17, 2018, 11:43:15 AM
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With 3 weeks until the big trip ftom Melbourne to Cape York via the Kimberley Region and I discover I have a stuffed stub axle on the the Pioneer. It appears to have had an inner bearing sieze on it and has been removed by a butcher with chisels and and angle grinder. This was before ny time of ownership.
It is an 09 and the company has had three owners in this time (now Trakmaster as of last week). They cannot help me as the axle is of an old design and know nothing about it. Although they did offer two sell me two current stub axle, hubs, discs and calipers for a fortune but couldn't guarantee the offset of my current rims. I've rung 20 trailer and caravan places who tell me they can't help. I gather my last resort is to have one made up and have it welded or machined. Anybody know anyone with the required talents? Any help appreciated. Cheers (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/0179fbaae88a7d4ef6535dbfd474e8bb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/4ca8830f7305fe70f80ebfe63e12295d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/3b3bfee0c100b90ec4fb69f0d6f0afc6.jpg)
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that's where the seal sits?
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Hi Feisty
If it's Pioneer trailer originally made in WA it would have a Gaffa Suspension on it The stub axle is a replaceable unit
Martins Trailer Parts can supply
Bayswater
Ph. 08 9279 5777
Fax. 08 9377 1156
sales@trailerparts.net.a
GAFFA COMPONENTS
I0852 GAFFA ARM ASSEMBLY
I0855 GAFFA STUB : SLIM LINE
I0855B GAFFA STUB : 1500 KG
I0855C GAFFA STUB : PARALLEL TURNING
I0855D GAFFA STUB : SPECIAL TURNING
I0860 GAFFA REBOUND STRAP
I0861 GAFFA REBOUND STRAP COVER
I0862 GAFFA BUMP STOP
I0863 GAFFA HANGER FOR ARM
I0864 GAFFA SUSPENSION BOLT
I0865 GAFFA CHASSIS MOUNTING FRAME
I0870 GAFFA COIL SPRING 14MM 750 KG
I0872 GAFFA COIL SPRING 15MM 1000 KG
I0874 GAFFA COIL SPRING 16MM 1500 KG
I0876 GAFFA COIL SPRING 14MM 750 KG : SHORT
I0878 GAFFA COIL SPRING 15MM 1000 KG : SHORT
I0879 GAFFA COIL SPRING 16MM 1500 KG : SHORT
I0885 GAFFA SHOCK ABSORBER PER PAIR
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Might help .. https://www.trailerparts.net.au/kits/trailer-kit-16-camper-trailer-with-gaffa/ (https://www.trailerparts.net.au/kits/trailer-kit-16-camper-trailer-with-gaffa/) ....
https://www.trailerparts.net.au/kits/ (https://www.trailerparts.net.au/kits/)
If your happy enough to run with the stub axle as is and just want to fix the seal face area, you can get stainless steel speedy sleeves that you tap on over the damaged seal face .. Get them at REPCO / AUTOBARN ETC Car parts places . http://www.skf.com/au/products/seals/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve/index.html (http://www.skf.com/au/products/seals/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve/index.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5x0yahjT2I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5x0yahjT2I)
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meant to add this as well
https://trailerparts.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/GAFFA_POSTER.pdf
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Failing to be able to get the exact part that caliper bracket is a std part and you could buy a full axle and get a fabricated to weld it all up. Wouldn’t be the the most complicated of jobs
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It should have the Alko brake set up
https://www.trailerparts.net.au/latest-catalogue/ (https://www.trailerparts.net.au/latest-catalogue/)
Section C Pg 39
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If it's the seal that your worried about use either a speedy sleeve or one of the seals they sell for boat trailers, they have a rubber seal that sits on the axle and a stainless cup that goes in the hub, just make sure that you grease up the cup and seal surface that runs in it.
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X2 for a speedy sleeve
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Speedy sleeves, by lots, for a quick fix.
Speedy Sleeves are done cold, like Edz described, or pressed on if you have the right gear.
Some of those stub-axles have a ring that's fitted as the seal seat, right up close to the backing plate.
To get a new one on, you heat it so it grows, put it in place and let it cool down to fit.
Getting the old one off can be done as you described.
Or you cook it with an oxy, to make it grow and separate. Has to be a quick heat up, you don't have to melt it or cut it with a torch.
You could possibly achieve the same result with an LPG torch, but I'm not sure it'd get hot enough, quick enough.
You would get the heat transfer into the axle, because it took so long, and it would still be stuck there.
Older mechanics used to do this in the local servos, when they were workshops as well as fuel stops.
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I would be more worried about the condition of the inner bearing land than the seal land. It looks like the bearing has been rotating on the axle stub and worn it well below tolerances. For peace of mind, considering where you are going, replace the sub axle assy along with new bearings - whats the hub / disc like??
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Here is the seal I was referring to https://trailerrepaircentre.com/shop/trailer-parts/hubs-bearings/two-part-standard-bearing-seal-skin-packed/
As long as the bearing is not loose on the axle it shouldn't be a problem, an old trick to firm up a bearing is to go around where it sits with a centre punch and make lots of little dimples.
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I would be more worried about the condition of the inner bearing land than the seal land. It looks like the bearing has been rotating on the axle stub and worn it well below tolerances. For peace of mind, considering where you are going, replace the sub axle assy along with new bearings - whats the hub / disc like??
X2. Where the inner sits looks toasted. Given the distances about to be traveled, I'd be replacing the stub too.
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Thanks all. I believe it is the grafta suspension. Which was an an house copy of the gaffa suspension. Two mechanics have looked at it and said speedy sleeves will not work in this situation. Rang the pioneer rental company in w.a. who referred me to their engineer who told me he fitted the the last two stub axles of this type he had last week........
So he suggested having an engineer remove the axle from the housing and take is around trailer places to see if they can match it or have the engineer copy it. He didn't think it would be too much of an issue. Tomorrow is going to be busy I can tell......
Thanks again for all your suggestions.
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Just as on off chance have you tried AJ Thomas in Caulfield who were the Pioneer agents before the takeovers, may have something lying around still.
Another rebuild option would to be have the stub axle metal sprayed and machined back to OEM specs. That could be determined by the inside diameter of the bearing races and seal diameter
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seems like a Shit load of effort and work for something so simple :(
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I'm just wondering what the other axle looks like, if that one's so bad?
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Yes Al at AJ Thomas was the second person I rang. He had one but it was for the later mode suspension.
And yes it does seem like it shouldn't be this hard. It is a fairly simple thing.
The other side looks pristine. Obviously it never had an issue so the butcher didn't have to go near it.
Pioneer sold a lot of these over about a 12 year period. The Argle isn't made anymore. The company is focussing on the big expensive models as they cant compete at the smaller, cheaper end of the market. I dare say I won't be the first or last person with this issue.
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Here is the seal I was referring to https://trailerrepaircentre.com/shop/trailer-parts/hubs-bearings/two-part-standard-bearing-seal-skin-packed/
As long as the bearing is not loose on the axle it shouldn't be a problem, an old trick to firm up a bearing is to go around where it sits with a centre punch and make lots of little dimples.
Not sure I would use the punch method for the cone/bearing half it would make adjust the bearing difficult and also removing the bearing for service as the inner half is design to slide over the stub.
I have use the centre punch method for the cup and seal recess.
Personally I would run with a speedi sleeve.
The joys of independent suspension.....
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So he suggested having an engineer remove the axle from the housing and take is around trailer places to see if they can match it or have the engineer copy it. He didn't think it would be too much of an issue. Tomorrow is going to be busy I can tell......
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If you do get one machined up, I would get two done at the same time so at least you then have a spare as well as its not much extra cost once programmed into the lathe
GG
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HI
If the bearings are Falcon or parallel type would be easy to make another .
Flat square plate + 4 holes
support triangles as needed
above plasma or laser cut [preferred ]
stub axle Off the shelf
Have somebody weld it up
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YEEHAH!
I reckon i found the last one in Australia. It turns out Al at AJ THOMAS campers had one hidden away. It needs the caliper mounting plate off the old one mounted on the new one but that is not a biggie.
A mate's neighbour is an engineer who said he would make me up a spare or two which is brilliant.
A big thankyou to all the myswag community for your help and advice especially Gazza who sent a huge message and went to lots of effort to research the issue for me.
If anyone else has this problem with the same stub axle in the future feel free to pm me as I may be able to help with a spare(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180518/bfa516a5d8342c87c680a1f12076ce81.jpg)
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Lookin good, Feisty. Well done.
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Great work. Now get it all back together
GG
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