Author Topic: Interesting read on electric cars  (Read 139809 times)

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Online Fizzie

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #250 on: December 01, 2019, 03:27:49 PM »
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #251 on: December 10, 2019, 11:21:50 PM »

Offline DandyD

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #252 on: December 10, 2019, 11:57:25 PM »
It’s on the streets....

On the wrong side of the road.

Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #253 on: December 11, 2019, 06:04:07 AM »
It will change a hell of a lot before it actually becomes a road registered vehicle...I reckon it has potential though.
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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #254 on: December 11, 2019, 09:16:26 AM »
Quote from: Pete79
It’s on the streets....
Its on the traffic sign  :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/video-elon-musk-hits-traffic-sign-tesla-cybertruck-malibu-2019-12
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #255 on: December 12, 2019, 12:02:35 PM »
Worlds first commercial all electric plane takes off...

Will only get better..

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/worlds-first-all-electric-commercial-aircraft-harbour-air/?fbclid=IwAR3ro0XrJX_fclhwp0Xr8rtY_SAiceBVxC7bR8IXgKPfCofxsrBnSi9YVDM
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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #256 on: December 12, 2019, 12:58:37 PM »
Worlds first commercial all electric plane takes off...

Will only get better..

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/worlds-first-all-electric-commercial-aircraft-harbour-air/?fbclid=IwAR3ro0XrJX_fclhwp0Xr8rtY_SAiceBVxC7bR8IXgKPfCofxsrBnSi9YVDM
pass..
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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #257 on: December 12, 2019, 01:36:51 PM »
Harbour Air reckon 50 > 80% lower operating costs .. Will equal cheaper seating ticket prices for flying .. Next breath ...
The engine maker has to get the Electric motor  Certified and its systems yet with Transport Canada  [ TC has NO Electric aircraft regulations to use as guide lines on Electric flight certification ] , we think that might take about two to three years, then the Aircraft will have to be approved  to use this power plant .  ;D
160 Km maximum operating range, They dont say what payload it will be able to carry .

 A Normal fuel powered DHC-2 Beaver  can carry 953 Kg of payload..    1 x crew/   6 x passengers / cargo   ..
Normal range is 730 Km
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 01:59:07 PM by edz »
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Offline gronk

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #258 on: December 12, 2019, 05:51:10 PM »


 A Normal fuel powered DHC-2 Beaver  can carry 953 Kg of payload..    1 x crew/   6 x passengers / cargo   ..
Normal range is 730 Km

BUT...it's green !!

And to be able to do a return trip, range one way would be approx 50 klms, seeing as they need to have a safety margin with fuel ( battery ).....may as well use a canoe !!
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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #259 on: December 12, 2019, 06:27:01 PM »
I'm gathering, where these guys operate around the lakes of the area ..
The range isnt a big issue .. Lots and lots of short haul hops .. Read somewhere they moved roughly 500, 000 people last year with their fleet of 50+ aircraft .. Thats big numbers ..
So for them Electric, If and when its certified will be a big bonus $$ wise .. Would be interesting to see if that range was at a normal load out weight ..
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Offline gronk

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #260 on: December 12, 2019, 08:28:44 PM »

The range isnt a big issue .. Lots and lots of short haul hops ..

I'm thinking short haul in a plane would be a bit longer than 50K's.

Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #261 on: December 12, 2019, 08:57:08 PM »
I'm thinking short haul in a plane would be a bit longer than 50K's.

Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
Looking at all of their schedules, the vast majority of them are 20 minute flights.

Only 2 destinations are over an hour flight times (the longest being 1hr 10min).

Sounds like these planes are a pretty good solution for a company like that doing super short flights over a lake.
Savings in operating costs would allow for investment in a bigger fleet, freeing up some time to recharge throughout the day.

Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #262 on: December 12, 2019, 09:03:39 PM »
Company quote ::
  Harbour currently has 14 six-passenger DHC-2 Beaver aircraft, many of which are equipped with Pratt & Whitney PT-6A turbine engines that burn about $300 worth of jet A fuel per hour. By contrast, the eBeaver packs enough battery life to fly about 100 miles at a cost of around $10 to $20 worth of electricity.

E-planes have a very limited range compared to ICE-powered models because lithium-ion batteries have less than 5 percent the energy density of gasoline or jet fuel. However, 100 miles is enough for many of the short seaplane hops around Vancouver's lower mainland. The distance between Vancouver and British Columbia capital Victoria (downtown to downtown) is 58 miles and takes about 30 minutes by plane, while the same trip on a ferry can run over four hours including driving time and waiting. (Also, as your author can attest from brutal experience, the flight is a lot less boring.)

Despite the range challenges, electric planes have big advantages over ICE-powered models. That includes lower maintenance and operating costs, no need for fueling infrastructure (other than chargers) and easier boarding on local routes. "We are proving that low-cost, environmentally friendly, commercial electric air travel can be a reality in the very near future," said Ganzarski.
End Quote ::: 
Be interesting to see how long a recharge / top up would take . Some places they would go to I reckon that would have be a diesel gen set . ;D
###   FOUND IT ###
 He expects that the MagniX installation in the Otters will give the planes at least 30 minutes of flying time. Harbour Air operates its flights under visual flight rules (VFR) regulations, which will require an additional 30-minute battery reserve.

It’ll be a while until the operational procedures and infrastructure requirements are worked out, but McDougall has been told by the propulsion system’s engineering team that recharging will be “a minute for a minute. Half an hour flight, half an hour recharge. Don’t forget you’re not charging the full battery, you still have the 30-minute reserve in the battery, so you’re going to be recharging from half.”
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 09:19:31 PM by edz »
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Online Fizzie

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #263 on: December 13, 2019, 07:57:55 AM »
Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.

But if you work on land, taxi in, the first thing that happens is hook up the charger / gen set, then unload passengers & cargo for this stop, followed by new one's on, I'd reckon you'd have at least 30 minutes charge time & probably closer to 1 hour for every stop.

Do that 3 - 4 times during the day, then get a full recharge at night & it should work ???
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Offline Pottsy

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #264 on: December 13, 2019, 12:41:22 PM »
But if you work on land, taxi in, the first thing that happens is hook up the charger / gen set, then unload passengers & cargo for this stop, followed by new one's on, I'd reckon you'd have at least 30 minutes charge time & probably closer to 1 hour for every stop.

Do that 3 - 4 times during the day, then get a full recharge at night & it should work ???

When I fly I like to hear the noise of the props or jet, somewhat reassuring that things are working, does an electric plane make noise or is it like a Prius, silent?
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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #265 on: December 13, 2019, 02:36:42 PM »
Have listen  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjsKq5Bf1Dk    ..... This was interesting .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CS3isCH4bk                                                                          Oooppps recharged by a diesel genny well kind of .. ;D
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 07:18:00 PM by edz »
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Offline gronk

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #266 on: December 13, 2019, 07:05:54 PM »
When I fly I like to hear the noise of the props or jet, somewhat reassuring that things are working, does an electric plane make noise or is it like a Prius, silent?

Have a listen to the vid......a propeller going round at a hundred miles an hour still makes a lot of noise !!  ;D
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #267 on: December 13, 2019, 07:15:02 PM »
Fair bit of Realestate on those wings for some solar panels too.. ;)

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #268 on: December 13, 2019, 08:46:05 PM »

Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.

Design the planes with a removable battery sled. Arrive at destination, slide out battery sled and replace with fully charged one. Multiple battery packs rather than multiple planes. Down time would be minimal.
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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #269 on: December 13, 2019, 10:25:23 PM »
The light two seater in the link above has two 10 Kw batteries each take about 5 minutes to remove / replace .. Give a Maximum  of two hours flight time till flat . Given weather and winds flight times with safety margins could be just over the hour .
Flight regulations .
 "Fuel and oil supply / power "  requirements: For IFR [ Instrument flight rules ]  enough fuel to reach destination, then alternate (if required), plus 45 minutes. For day VFR [ Visual Flight Rules ] enough fuel to reach destination plus 30 minutes. For night VFR, enough fuel to reach destination plus 45 minutes..
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #270 on: December 15, 2019, 09:38:00 PM »
One of the favorite arguments from the anti EV crowd is about batteries needing to be replaced long before the vehicle reaches end of life.

Well looks like that’s another one we can throw on the big smoking pile of untruths about alternative industries and renewables.

“All batteries lose some storage capacity over time. But how might that degradation affect your driving range a few years down the line? To help answer that question, we can now look to Geotab, a leading telematics-fleet-management company with access to a lot of EVs. Lo and behold, the losses are minor.

Geotab created its so-called EV Battery Degradation Tool by pulling data directly from the 6,300 EVs from its fleets. What’s super-cool is the interactive nature of the tool, allowing users to drill down to 21 specific electric models.

You can use the tool to slice and dice the data for yourself;
https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html

In June 2018, Geotab acquired FleetCarma, a forerunner in providing technology support the use of EVs in fleets.

Here’s a quick rundown of what the data revealed:

* If current degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle.

* The average decline in energy storage is 2.3% per year. For a 150-mile EV, you’re likely to lose 17 miles of accessible range after five years.
* EV batteries decline in a non-linear fashion. There’s an early drop, but the rate of decline slows down in subsequent years.
* Liquid-cooled batteries decline slower than air-cooled packs. Geotab saw that a 2015 Tesla Model S with liquid cooling had an average annual degradation rate of 2.3%, compared to an air-cooled 2015 Nissan Leaf’s rate of 4.2%.
* Battery-powered vehicles that have bigger state-of-charge buffers fare better. In other words, some carmakers use a smaller percentage of the battery’s capacity, which reduces usable range. But the conservative approach slows down the degradation rate, most notably in early versions of the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid.
* Higher vehicle use does not necessarily equal higher battery degradation.
* Vehicles driven in hot temperatures show a faster decline in battery health.
* The use of DC fast-chargers speeds up the process of degradation, but there’s not much difference in battery health based on frequent use of Level 1 versus Leve 2 charging. Losses that happen with frequent DC charging are made worse in hot climates.”

Offline gronk

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #271 on: December 16, 2019, 05:38:05 AM »
These same arguments could be said about batteries that RV's use.........but we all know it's very rare to get 10yrs or more out of a battery.
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Offline PWE

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #272 on: December 16, 2019, 06:06:31 AM »
Quickly turnout to be a for and against renewable discussion

Anyway, I had my Tesla Model 3 for two months and it is great.
Other than planning your trips, it is the same as any new sports car - full of gadgets and tech stuff.
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Link below comparison between a BMW M3 vs Tesla Model 3 Performance
BMW cost more and have that ongoing petrol cost.
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #273 on: December 16, 2019, 06:47:00 AM »
We are all assuming that the lithium batteries these planes use are going to be the current generation of lithium.  Science is playing a huge behind the scenes game developing batteries that will easily double the time and power output of the current generation.  They also dont have to be lithium. Have read of other materials being used with outstanding results. Renewable energy science is raging ahead. .
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #274 on: December 16, 2019, 06:51:31 AM »
These same arguments could be said about batteries that RV's use.........but we all know it's very rare to get 10yrs or more out of a battery.

I normally get 7 years out of my dumb Fullriver agm,s.  However RV,s do not have very stringent and specific maintenance schedules like aircraft do.  I,d doubt that the batteries would be just left to sit and be charged every now and again without a critical inspection regularly and extensive..  Like many parts of an aircraft they would probably be changed after so many hours..  The batteries will get smaller , more powerful and longer lasting..I,m sure.
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