Author Topic: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology  (Read 18551 times)

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Offline Oldandslow

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2015, 07:58:16 PM »
Can't go past a good T model Ford, they don't make cars like that anymore. Funny how blokes get so attached to their cars and think nothing could ever replace them. I just traded a 5 year old Hyundai IX35 turbo diesel, two liter motor producing amazing power and nearly 400nm of torque. People said it would not last because it was so "stressed" when in reality it produced max torque at 1800rpm and would pull like a train from idle. It would also give a WRX a scare at the lights. It had 85K on it and still felt like the day I drove it home. It would not surprise me if that engine lasted 500K.

 Before that I had a 3ltr Patrol, great car that I thought could go anywhere and do it cheaper than most similar cars on the market. It had no power off the turbo and the brakes were only there for show but I still loved it. I now have an Isuzu MUX, the three liter diesel is the same they use in their trucks and has a life expectancy the equal of any motor out there. It does everything so much better than the Patrol. More power right through the rev range, better traction in the soft stuff, brakes that work just like a normal car, much better drive experience on the highway and uses even less fuel than the Patrol. I bought it to last 20 years and I have no doubts at all about it doing it.

 We seem to become very attached to our cars but if you shop around it is easy to see that improvements are being made. I have driven a lot of the new 4x4's on the market and nearly all of them are much better than all the old classics.

Offline dales133

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2015, 08:22:24 PM »
I love my 80 and for 20 years old its cost me nothing.
My mrs piece of Shit astra thats 1/4 the age got to a certain birthday and everything shat itself at once.
Holden rebadge the Shittist of the Shittist when it comes to small cars.
Ever since the torana theyve just rebadged Shit you can't sell anywhere else.
As far as im concerned boycott ford and holden.
They owned the market and through thier own Shit decisions they got bailed out billions to keep work here..... they make Shit cars and further more they sold aussie out.
**** them quite frankly

Offline shanegtr

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2015, 10:33:51 PM »
Interesting thread read so far. My thoughts on the old vs. new debate includes a few points:

1: Maintenance/Servicing - If your handy with the spanners and can do all the maintenance and servicing work yourself then drive something that's out of warranty so you can do it yourself. If your a complete numpty mechanically then drive something newer and pay the cheaper servicing cost. I think older vehicles in general could potentially cost more if your paying someone to repair/service them. In saying that, cars are just machines and in general machines tend to fail early (called infant mortality) so I wouldn't expect anything major to fail on any older car (common failure modes for models excluded)

2: Safety - Newer cars are designed for passenger safety a lot more than in the past so there's defiantly a valid argument for using newer cars IMHO. No one plans to jump in their car and say to themselves today is the day I have an accident. Just over a year ago my family where involved in a high speed rollover in our 97 80 series landcruiser. In our situation if our landcruiser had stability control then it would have intervened and either prevented it going over or at worse case minimised the severity of the roll. My wife was driving at the time and simply reacted the wrong way when she dropped a couple of wheels onto the dirt shoulder, happens so quickly and you don't get the opportunity for a second chance. I read a report from the American insurance institute in regards to car safety - generally speaking they reported that cars from the early and mid 90's are the worst for safety of the passengers - the cars from the late 80s where better!.

3: Using a 4wd Offroad - Really who wants to bash and scratch up a brand spanking new 4wd offroad! (actually if I won lotto I might do 8) )

So for me after the destruction of our old 80 series, we replaced it with a 05 Land Rover discovery 3. It suits me as I do all my own maintenance work and there's heaps of products on the market for them in regards to diagnostic's so I'm covered for the "modern technology" side. Its old enough that I'm not fussed if I get a few bush pin stripes (brought it with a few already on). Its also new enough to have some vital safety features like DSC which after going through what we did I wouldn't have a high centre of gravity car without it now.

The newer car does have some drawbacks compared to the old 80 - I am more aware of the fuel quality due to the modern turbo diesel compared to the old 1HZ in the 80. There are some items that require a bit more maintenance or they wear out quicker and some parts can be more expensive. But in general towing the camper in my D3 is so much nicer than my old cruiser - I can power up the hills now without having to slow down to 60km/h, its quieter inside, more comfortable (for all the family - all 4 kids!)and uses less fuel. It is a different car to drive offroad however, the old 80 was more point and shoot. Put it in 4wd and away you go. Im still getting used to driving the disco offroad, combination of its terrain response and the auto gearbox means its a learning curve for me and Im still getting used to it. In all honesty I still prefer the old school 4wd approach that my 80 had, however ask me the same question in another years time and I might have changed my mind ;D
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Offline latestarter

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2015, 07:28:31 AM »
Oldandslow.
I really do appreciate your comments. Firstly , I'm hanging onto my pathy at the moment purely because I can't afford to replace it and it has been reliable. That's it.
Now that said, I acknowledge that at some point I will have to replace it and then the question becomes with what ?

My previous question really revolves around whether the new generation diesels are not suited to city driving long term. 85k out of your ix35 is no where near proving longevity. It may well turn out that it does the long term with little trouble .... But the runs aren't on the board yet.

The MUX and DMax are certainly something I would consider ... Actually I will, but luckily when the time comes for me, my previous question about reliability where there has been a lot of city driving involved will be more easily answered re the modern diesels.
I don't want to go back to a TModel, I wouldn't have thought an FJ cruiser fell into that category. I just hope the manufacturers keep developing good petrol donks so we have a choice

Offline powerd

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2015, 08:13:48 AM »
shanegtr - some interesting points you raise which I predominantly agree with.  Modern vehicles offer so much more in terms of performance, handling, safety and capability, plus build quality and engineering in most cases has improved dramatically. 

One of the challenges here in Australia for us 4WD people who want to travel remotely is how harsh the conditions are, and much different to those found in most other countries apart, perhaps, from parts of Africa and South America.  Also, the remoteness, particularly from towns and assistance,  is not really matched anywhere except perhaps Siberia.  That poses unique challenges.

On the diesel vs petrol issue, that's a tricky one.  One of them is the risk of picking up water and other contamination in fuel in remotes spots.  This is most dangerous for diesel.  In speaking to a well regarded diesel specialists, he told me of many instances of travellers' and farm vehicles requiring major, expensive repairs from ingesting contaminants.  A Discovery 2.7TD that required $17,000 worth, a Landcruiser not much less, various ordinary utes and traytops at around $8,000.  The problems affect older more basic engines too, but a bit less so because of the lack of high pressure fuel systems, but the cost to repair is lower too because of fewer, cheaper parts.

His advice?  Either fit a premium quality water separator/filter system and check it/maintain it religiously, and have the car properly serviced regularly by knowledgeable people, just accept that diesels require more servicing and care, particularly as they age.  Or else, buy a strong petrol  engine vehicle, add an extra filter and a long range tank and pay a bit more for petrol, but save on servicing and lower maintenance/repair costs.
Particular models, such as the 3.0 turbodiesel Jackaroo, some Toyota engines (one series of Prado D4D and the early V8TD Landcruiser, some Hyundai/Kias, Merc diesels in the earlier Jeep Grand Cherokee and others, these are just examples) have proved troublesome.  But overall, modern engines were well made and reliable, and the biggest risk for offroaders was the water issue and lack of quality maintenance.  And he said that from a business point of view, he was very pleased to be in the diesel maintenance trade!

Many people have great experiences with their modern diesels.  A chap in the UK who deals in and moves classic cars did 540,000 MILES in his Disco 3 2.7TD mostly towing a car trailer which was often well loaded around UK and Europe), before needing a top end rebuild (he replaced it with a new engine and did various other items while there, then kept using it). On Landrover sites I have seen many with more than 300,000kms+  largely trouble-free.  You will find similar example on other brand forums.  Not surprisingly, people who do high kms tend to prefer diesels.

On the other hand I have just sold our 300,000km old 2000 Astra auto to a friend, a great little car that drives really well, feels tight and is reliable.  It had a rebuilt head at 270,000 after a blown head gaskets, replacements of brakes, shockers, O2 sensor, aircon compressor and a few little electrical gremlins.  Feels like it will do many more kms and interior almost like new.  Have another at 200,000kms that feels great too.
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Offline slydar

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2015, 08:14:43 AM »
Now, I am not frightened of electronics anymore, having taught myself how to maintain and repair modern fuel injected stuff and use a laptop and diagnostic tools.  Trust me, I am no talented mechanic, just a determined plodder who used the internet and skilled friends to help me.  If I can do it, you can.


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Offline Hairs

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2015, 02:42:52 PM »
I love my 80 and for 20 years old its cost me nothing.
My mrs piece of Shit astra thats 1/4 the age got to a certain birthday and everything shat itself at once.


My 80 turns 25 next August,
1991 1htd gxl, She will become a 'Classic' I've owned her since 2005, she had 245 000kms on her and now she has 396500kms, just replaced the water pump and had the timing belt replace while at it.
She owes me 43k including purchase price, services and maintenance.
More than happy to spend another 20k on the 80 in the coming years. 8)


The minister for War & Finance has a 2002 Astra(Vauxhall) with less than 200 000k's on the clock and it seems every week we have our hand in our pockets to fix something.   >:D >:D >:D >:D


   
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 02:47:34 PM by Hairs »
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Offline dales133

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2015, 02:46:08 PM »
I hear you mate,buying an astra was the single stupidest thing shes ever done.
Its the biggest piece of Shit on wheels and we are now stuck with tbe bastard forever

Offline Hairs

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2015, 03:05:16 PM »
Same, not even game to give it to number one daughter when she gets her P'S
Only thing to do is drive it till it stops I guess  :-[
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Offline glenm64

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2015, 03:08:21 PM »
I hear you mate,buying an astra was the single stupidest thing shes ever done.
Its the biggest piece of Shit on wheels and we are now stuck with tbe bastard forever
Dont worry mate you wont be stuck with it forever. It will die soon enough!
My sons ex had one too and he was forever working on it.

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Offline dales133

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2015, 03:11:40 PM »
She had the very last year of Hyundai accent and she drove it up tbe back of a frontend loader driving up tourqey road with no lights on at 5am
Lucky she only wrote the car off not herself.
I told her to get another one but she chose tbis other lemon instead

Offline Hewy54

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2015, 04:07:10 PM »
My preference on old technology is based purely on economics.
A new landcruiser in 2006 was $72800. The current value with 140 - 240 k on the clock is $36000 (Redbook price)
If I had the money then it would have cost me $36800 in devaluation for 9 years.
In 2006 I bought an 80 series for $18000 and 9 years later the current redbook value is $12000.
Depreciation on a new car would have cost me $36k while on an older car cost me $6k.
I have spent $8181 in servicing/tyres/batteries, $2895 in repairs and $13028 on accessories.
I have no doubt that the new tech would have given a better safety and comfort level, but old tech is all I can afford.

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Offline powerd

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2015, 04:17:07 PM »
Astras - it seems some people have bad runs with them and others good.  They are prone to electrical gremlins, but if you know how to sort them the major mechanicals seem to be robust.  And I like them to drive, for that era at least they were about the best in their class.

Maybe GM should have got Izuzu to make them, and they would have been as bulletproof as the Jackaroo (excluding the later diesel).  Speaking of 80 series Toyotas, they seem pretty bulletproof.  I have friends who reckon they were the best Toyota 4WD  and who say that their 100 and 200 series were not as reliable or well made as the 80s they used to own. 
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Offline Hoyks

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2015, 04:55:50 PM »
One thing I do like about the older vehicles; Almost everything was able to be serviced/overhauled and put back into service.

On modern vehicles, repair is by replacement. Good luck flushing water out a common rail diesel with a bit of kero/metho mix, re-priming with diesel and getting it going again. You are tied to the dealer network to keep the thing on the road and any repair like that is thousands.

With my old courier I could run it on 50:50 cooking oil and diesel mix, I knocked up a set of contacts for the starter solenoid from a bit of copper sheet and it cost me nothing... 100km/h up any sort of incline was impossible though, so there are certainly trade offs.

Offline dales133

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2015, 05:32:56 PM »
Astras - it seems some people have bad runs with them and others good.  They are prone to electrical gremlins, but if you know how to sort them the major mechanicals seem to be robust.  And I like them to drive, for that era at least they were about the best in their class.

Maybe GM should have got Izuzu to make them, and they would have been as bulletproof as the Jackaroo (excluding the later diesel).  Speaking of 80 series Toyotas, they seem pretty bulletproof.  I have friends who reckon they were the best Toyota 4WD  and who say that their 100 and 200 series were not as reliable or well made as the 80s they used to own.
Electrical gremlins are our issue.
Motors strong as an ox but the window regulators,shocks,alternator (twice)check engine light,ads light ,ignition ect all have random issues.
The indicator wont work then it does .
Annoying!

Offline Snapman007

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2015, 08:34:36 PM »
Only thing to do is drive it till it stops I guess  :-[


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Offline dales133

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2015, 08:47:24 PM »
 Its been broken i to 5 times ,they just make a mess but wont steel it.
Cant say i blame them.
Thieves are opertunistic wankers with an eye for quality

Offline shanegtr

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2015, 09:15:35 PM »
The problems affect older more basic engines too, but a bit less so because of the lack of high pressure fuel systems, but the cost to repair is lower too because of fewer, cheaper parts.

The older systems "should" be more expensive to repair as they typically run injection pumps witch done both pumping up the pressure and distributing the fuel to each injector and a generally more complex pumps to deal with. Most common rail systems are now far simpler with a single high pressure fuel pump and the injectors do all the work individually for metering the fuel. In the real world the cost to repair doesn't always reflect that however..........
Your dead right that the older systems run less pressure and there for the internal pump clearances are larger than the higher pressure systems so they can get away with a bit more dirty fuel - water contamination would be similar across both and cause equal trouble.

Offline Snapman007

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2015, 09:17:40 PM »
Lol, remind's me of the the old pulsar didn't want to make it home one night. Go to rescue it in the morning and some mofos have broken into it. Luckily one of the genius thought to use one of his old mans screw drivers with a name engraved in the handle. First rule of car steelin, what ever you take on car steelin, don't leave on passenger seat of car steelin ya dumb f'kn.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 09:36:59 AM by Snapman007 »
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Offline Barry G

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2015, 11:31:40 PM »
Astras - it seems some people have bad runs with them and others good.  They are prone to electrical gremlins, but if you know how to sort them the major mechanicals seem to be robust.  And I like them to drive, for that era at least they were about the best in their class.

Maybe GM should have got Izuzu to make them, and they would have been as bulletproof as the Jackaroo (excluding the later diesel).  Speaking of 80 series Toyotas, they seem pretty bulletproof.  I have friends who reckon they were the best Toyota 4WD  and who say that their 100 and 200 series were not as reliable or well made as the 80s they used to own.
Great to see another late petrol Jackaroo on the forum!
While the diesels are too high maintenance for me, given the kms I do, (400-500 / wheel commuting) I believe the problems are exaggerated.  Provided the oil is changed on schedule and for the correct weight, all should be fine.  Those who don't have problems, those who do run fine. And any that were abused have long since died.  Having said that, I wouldn't swap my petrol / LPG Equipe in a hurry. Gradually turning it into the tow vehicle I want.  Next mod will be a Harrop e-locker in the rear.
BTW, don't forget to list your Jack in the what do you drive? Thread poll!
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Offline Fizzie

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2015, 07:22:09 AM »
Subaru discussed petrol v diesel engines a little while ago:
http://www.subaru.com.au/car-advice/benefits-of-a-diesel-engine

To sum up: if you do short city trips go with petrol, but if long highway drives go diesel.

So the obvious solution is a petrol town car & another diesel country one  8)
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Offline Hairs

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Re: 4WD’s – Old verses new technology
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2015, 05:09:29 PM »

Next Tuesday???

Smart Arse  :angel:
 It's Wednesday  ;D
 :cheers:
You don't use magic to disappear, all you need is a 4wd & a Swag ;)