MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: silverfox1111 on August 18, 2017, 05:20:30 PM
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Gday all
Read this on another post that someone put a towbar hitch on his bullbar to make parking his camper in tight spots easier. Has anyone on here done this & was it easier to move the camper driging forward than reversing it?
Might need to try this cause the new hilux can't push my camper up my front yard without digging trenches while reversing it into position.
Silverfox
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Have you fitted Free Wheeling Hubs to your Hilux? Good investment if you need to reverse up a steep driveway with a CT/van. Allows you to engage 4WD low range without fear of diff wind up. Plenty of torque without wheel spin.
KB
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I've only had it for 3 months but I'll look into this. Would've thought the traction control would control the wheel spinning, but it just digs trenches on dry grass.
Silverfox
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Wheels gotta spin a fair bit first for TC to work ;D
FWHs are easy to fit. Pretty cheap too.
KB
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Lots of Boat owners have modified a front Bullbar, fitting a reece hitch near the left side Chassis rail.
Idea is they can move the trailer and see past anything loaded on the trailer.
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Gday all
Read this on another post that someone put a towbar hitch on his bullbar to make parking his camper in tight spots easier. Has anyone on here done this & was it easier to move the camper driging forward than reversing it?
Might need to try this cause the new hilux can't push my camper up my front yard without digging trenches while reversing it into position.
Silverfox
Mate, with the pivot point so close to the front wheels, you can just about turn a trailer/CT on a 5c bit... great option if you need it. IMHO
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Seen a guy with one put his caravan in his site at a caravan park. I didn't believe how quick and easy it was, and that was with him re hitching. He got out the car and said "I can't back for Shit".
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. He got out the car and said "I can't back for Shit".
it isn't that hard!
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I used to work as what was known as a Montage Monkey; we worked setting up the campsites for Eurocamp/Keycamp/Canvas Holidays in France, and would work alongside the mobile install team.
The Mobile install team would set up the mobile homes (what Aussies call cabins) for the season, including putting them on site (the delivery trucks would drop them at the gates) and they used Daihatsu Fourtraks for that that had 1 towbar on the back and 3 on the front - centre, right and left. Dirty great semi-homemade bars, that were fairly solid. This mobile homes were about 9' x 45', so a decent size to be put into place. Some of the sites/trees were only about 4' wider than the mobile home... needs a bit of a precision.
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it isn't that hard!
yeah I don't get the difficulty myself, it's called practice a bit then it's easy going
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I can't understand the free wheeling hubs suggestion?
Just put it in low range, even drop your tyre pressure if you have to.
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Shouldn't have to drop the tyres, with the traction control these days it is supposed to control wheel spin. I've only been backing my enclosed box trailer ( no more than 500kg) up a dry grassed hill & sit there digging trenches. My previous car had a far better traction control than the hilux (shock, horror, a jeep). Haven't even tried to push the camper (1500kg) on the same path yet.
Silverrfox
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I can't understand the free wheeling hubs suggestion?
Just put it in low range, even drop your tyre pressure if you have to.
Pretty simple really. The Hilux doesn't have a centre diff so being locked in 4WD on a hard surface will create diff wind up which is potentially harmful, not so much on a soft surface like grass. So with FWHs you can still use 4WD low range, more torque, less speed, without harming your driveline.
KB
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Shouldn't have to drop the tyres, with the traction control these days it is supposed to control wheel spin. I've only been backing my enclosed box trailer ( no more than 500kg) up a dry grassed hill & sit there digging trenches. My previous car had a far better traction control than the hilux (shock, horror, a jeep). Haven't even tried to push the camper (1500kg) on the same path yet.
Silverrfox
As I said earlier, for traction control to apply the brakes, the wheel has to be spinning, sometimes quite fast, at least faster than the other wheel on the same axle. Traction control simple works off the ABS wheel sensors. TC is not predictive. And yes, some TC systems have a quicker reaction time.
KB
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How does it create diff wind up if it doesn't have a centre diff?
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This explains it pretty well. Otherwise heaps of other explanations on Google.
With a centre diff, you DON'T get wind up ;D
http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Transmission_Wind-Up.shtml (http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Transmission_Wind-Up.shtml)
KB
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With the short time I've had the hilux, the reaction time of the traction control can be measured with an hour glass or a sun dial.
Silverfox
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put down a path of maxtrax :)
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I had a 2002 Hilux and I replaced the hubs with a set of manual hubs.
It allowed me to select low range and reverse without causing windup on a hard surface.
With the hubs selected in free, there is no direct drive to the front wheels.
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It's written in the manual not to use 4wd because of binding in the driveline, as KB states. This is part of my problem as the first half of my climb is on the concrete driveway.
Thinking that if the trailer is on the front of the car, & the car is pointing up hill the weight transfer onto the rear wheels will give me more traction.
Silverfox
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Hence the use of a manual selectable hub.
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G,Day SF, A mate fitted this unit up under the front his earlier style Hilux .. Pics might give you some ideas.
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If your not doing and sharp turns on the concrete backing the trailer then just use low range the whole way (or engage it just before the grass if it concerns you). It won't hurt it and when it gets to the grass it will undo any wind up anyway. If you drive in a straight line, you can use low range for 242384762738km...
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I have fitted a tow hitch to my bullbar .
I am fairly good at reversing a trailer , but some places it is easier to push in front wards.
Note this is not a recovery point, but handy for carrying the recovery hitch .
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii547/dug59/Old%20Girl%202015/029_1.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/dug59/media/Old%20Girl%202015/029_1.jpg.html)
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Think I'll use a combination of all your suggestions.
Use low range & 4wd when i can without damaging the drivetrain & fit a front tow hitch as well.
Comments about ease of parking trailers with a front hitch sound good as once i get up the rise i need to turn nearly 90° & end up between a retaining wall & another trailer. Plan on using winch mount points on bullbar to make up a carrier for hitch till i get a winch fitted.
Thanks for all the comments.
Silverfox
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This explains it pretty well. Otherwise heaps of other explanations on Google.
With a centre diff, you DON'T get wind up ;D
http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Transmission_Wind-Up.shtml (http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Transmission_Wind-Up.shtml)
KB
With a centre diff comes cdl, therefore you do/can get wind up. (I don't really have much experience with non constant 4wd vehicles so i know all about cdl wind up).
Now if he is losing traction, won't engaging 4wd stop this to back his trailer up a hill? And tyre slippage will eliminate wind up? Whats the point of having 4wd if you can't use it?
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If your not doing and sharp turns on the concrete backing the trailer then just use low range the whole way (or engage it just before the grass if it concerns you). It won't hurt it and when it gets to the grass it will undo any wind up anyway. If you drive in a straight line, you can use low range for 242384762738km...
Don't think so but give it a go and let us all know ;D
AFAIK windup is through a cumulative effect on the driveline when it has no chance of releasing the build up of energy through wheel slip. That build up of energy does not happen only because of lock to lock turns but builds up through every small difference in the rotation of wheels between the axles. If you drive "242384762738km", or even only a few kms, your wheels are constantly moving at different speeds due to road undulations and steering corrections.
KB
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With a centre diff comes cdl, therefore you do/can get wind up. (I don't really have much experience with non constant 4wd vehicles so i know all about cdl wind up).
Now if he is losing traction, won't engaging 4wd stop this to back his trailer up a hill? And tyre slippage will eliminate wind up? Whats the point of having 4wd if you can't use it?
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Seriously, I know some centre diffs can be locked and I know that if you lock your centre diff then you can get wind up. Geeez.
KB
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Now if he is losing traction, won't engaging 4wd stop this to back his trailer up a hill? And tyre slippage will eliminate wind up? Whats the point of having 4wd if you can't use it?
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X2
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Don't think so but give it a go and let us all know ;D
AFAIK windup is through a cumulative effect on the driveline when it has no chance of releasing the build up of energy through wheel slip. That build up of energy does not happen only because of lock to lock turns but builds up through every small difference in the rotation of wheels between the axles. If you drive "242384762738km", or even only a few kms, your wheels are constantly moving at different speeds due to road undulations and steering corrections.
KB
I agree (maybe not 242384762738km haha) but in my experience the short distance backing a trailer has negligible effect on the 4x4. I have done it with all my 4x4s with no issues to date. Occasionally a wheel would skip/hop (the wind up releasing) but only when turning more than approx half a steering wheel turn.
Or maybe my concrete is more slippery than yours haha!
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I back my van up the drive in low range sometimes. On concrete, no freewheel hubs. I just make sure it is pretty straight before I drop into low and don't turn the wheel much. It's not real steep and not really long either, but if I don't have access to my wife's car (auto) it certainly saves the clutch on the ute.
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Most caravan/ camper trailer yards have a vehicle with a front mounted towball. Driving in 4wd low range on concrete will give you diff wind up, it will release when driven on the grass. Short distance on hard surfaces in 4wd low range will not hurt your car and will release when taken out of gear/ low range
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