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Offline griz066

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Any truth in this?
« on: August 07, 2014, 07:10:17 AM »
Fact or Fiction?
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Offline Alfa12

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 07:16:18 AM »
Hmm, wife saw that on Farcebook this morning as well. Just had a look on line but can't find anything on the official sites to back it up yet. Anyone else know anything of this?
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Offline grafy82

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 07:17:21 AM »
Fake, that's not even a D shackle as the poster states, its a bow shackle. Though yes, I agree rated shackles should be standard.
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Offline swanny

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 07:18:37 AM »
That's a bow shackle isn't it....D shackles...you guessed it are shaped like a D, so my bet is prob BS.
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Offline firefox

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 07:19:56 AM »
I would say fact. Been through this with a couple of builds. Not necessary about d shackles but more about the fact Shackles must be rate tested to a certain strength. Furthermore they should be looking at the chains as they also have to be rated.

I don't believe its a specific type, it's just that the shackles and equipment need to be rated. I use 3.5t shackles with additional rated closed clip (don't know what is called they use it on big rigs for tying down). I needed the additional clips as the larger shackle would not go through the chain links.

I get scared some days seeing the chains thickness and shackles on campers. And in my travels now I've seen about 4 vans all have fallen of their tow all whilst driving.

Just worked out that those clips are called hammer locks.. I run two high strength chains rated at 3.5t, with hammer locks on each end rated at 5t with two bow shackles.The link I posted below has some good info in it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 08:10:29 AM by firefox »
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Offline firefox

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 07:25:35 AM »
Have a read of this...
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Loads%20and%20towing/Safe%20towing/Safe_towing_guide.pdf

Shackles and chains MUST be rated. You will see probably 90% of the shackles are not stamped and not rated as per compliance. This includes chains.

It's not about bow or d shackles it's about not being rated correctly. And most of the shackles out there do not comply as they are not stamped and more then likely not rated.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:48:53 AM by firefox »
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Offline Jenko67

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 07:46:22 AM »
I know that ignorance if the law is no excuse but never heard if this until now.  Will need to check my shackles now....
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 08:09:56 AM »
Quote from: firefox on August 07, 2014, 07:25:35 AM
And most of the shackles out there do not comply as they are not stamped and more then likely not rated.

The way I read that, is the chain must be marked, but only advisable for the shackle. The shackle must be rated at 1.5 times ATM though.
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Offline firefox

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 08:14:24 AM »
Trying to get access to the full standards. However found this one for NT..
http://www.transport.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/19646/vib13i-Light-Trailer-Safety-Chain-Shackles-Jan-2013.pdf

Definitely chain and shackles, this one only talks about inspection and a notice not a fine.

I've looked in vsb1 it refers to the entire connection and then calls the chain out.it also refers to specific requirements in AS standards i just don't have access, but have found the summary docs for example.
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Offline firefox

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 08:39:02 AM »
So confirmed, finally got the AS standards and VSB. It is not directly referencing shackles and only chains. However it references another standard that references the AS standard.

I think it looks like someone trying to get there head around it here..

http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50180&start=20

In a nutshell I thinks its advisable to definitely have rated chains and shackles..
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Offline ddr

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 09:06:15 AM »
Quote from: firefox on August 07, 2014, 08:39:02 AM
In a nutshell I thinks its advisable to definitely have rated chains and shackles..

From what I have found, which included statements from Police.  Its advisable, but not Law.  The statements from the ADR etc only say that shackle should be strong enough but nothing about using a rated shackle.
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Offline Jakster1

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 01:30:21 PM »
Yes it is true.
I was in the bunnings about a week ago and an old fella was beside me looking for rated shackles for his van.
He was raving on about how he just got booked and fined for using a regular non rated D shackle at a roadside checkpoint.
And I guess in the event of an accident that was caused by an unrated shackle which has failed, the owner will be in a lot of trouble.
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Offline Jakster1

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 01:36:08 PM »
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2014, 02:16:01 PM »
Its all true folks.
The fun will begin when industrial rigging test standards get enforced and we all have to re-test the shackles every 6 months just like other certified rigging equipment.

Yep, OK, I'll now run away as I know your all looking for something to through at me, but, just wait and see, there will be someone, somewhere who will try to carry that regulation over. It will start with heavy transport and then filter down.


PS
When a link is welded, the chain is no longer rated. The alternative is a secured eye and a hammer lock to join the chain to the trailer.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 02:20:13 PM by DaveR »
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Offline ATC

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 02:19:47 PM »
Quote from: DaveR on August 07, 2014, 02:16:01 PM
Its all true folks.
The fun will begin when industrial rigging test standards get enforced and we all have to re-test the shackles every 6 months just like other certified rigging equipment.

Yep, OK, I'll now run away as I know your all looking for something to through at me, but, just wait and see, there will be someone, somewhere who will try to carry that regulation over. It will start with heavy transport and then filter down.

No we have stuff to throw at you, all the old shackles & non-rated chain that manufacturers supply with trailers & tow hitches.

If I paint it red does it make it load rated?
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 02:21:16 PM »
Quote from: ATC on August 07, 2014, 02:19:47 PM
No we have stuff to throw at you, all the old shackles & non-rated chain that manufacturers supply with trailers & tow hitches.

If I paint it red does it make it load rated?

Yep, and change the color every 6 months, sorted.....
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 02:27:34 PM »
My understanding is that from some point in time on, safety chains had to be rated and stamped and D shackles had to be too.
I do not think these new "regs" apply retrospective to all trailers made before that date.
Bit like old cars made without seatbelts, you don't have to fit them to drive them.
But, all states are probably different anyway
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 02:34:56 PM »
So if I read that correctly, your shackle can either meet AS xyz, which will be clearly marked, OR rated breaking load at 1.5 times the ATM, but is not marked.

So if my trailer ATM is 1 tonne, I purchase a "1.5 tonne load rated" shackle from Bunnings with no markings,  it's not stainless, then it is legal, isn't it ???

Shane.  ???
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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2014, 02:53:32 PM »
Stop the world... I want to get off..
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Offline Bad Scott

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2014, 02:55:42 PM »
No. Rating of shackle will be stamped on it. Up to 10% wear is legal.  After that new shackle. Refer to rigging and lifting.
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Offline ddr

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2014, 03:12:00 PM »
I still cant see in the QLD document where it says that a rated shackle must be used.
It gives some recommendations, some examples, but there is no mention of the law where you MUST use a rated shackle.
Even the VSB doesn't go into specifics on the shackle. It just states that the shackle should be strong enough to handle the load.



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Offline Mace

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2014, 03:34:43 PM »
The current AS 4177 outlining rated safety chain requirements dates from 2004.

For towing, a shackle should be seen as a device for  extension of the safety chain to a rated mounting on the vehicle. Why anyone would want to have a rated chain then not ensure the rating of the coupling device (shackle) to the mount is adequate is beyond me!

In this case, IMO its an example of the enforcement agency finally  catching up with game.
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Offline firefox

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2014, 03:40:29 PM »
so as a quick interesting experiment, (i'm in a caravan park currently!)..
I walked along the front and we have 7 vans including mine.. All at least 2.5T+

Out of 7 vans...

2 vans grossly small chains, no rating and d shackles small as.. (i wouldn't hook them up to a 750kg trailer..)
2 vans with decent chains and stamped/rated shackles (mine is one of these)
the 3 others had reasonable sized chains (no stamped on them) and d-shackles with no rating on them..

Just goes to show people either don't know, don't care or just don't understand why a chain is there..
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Offline Suncruise

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2014, 03:55:52 PM »
Surely if a trailer has a compliance plate it will be compliant with the relevant ADR in so far as the chain(s) is concerned.

I have rated shackles on my CT however they are 1 tonne each so won't comply with the gross trailer mass of 1.5 tonne if the 1.5 times mass rule is correct (which I have my doubts).

Unfortunately the next size up shackle wont fit through a chain link.
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Offline Ratbag

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Re: Any truth in this?
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2014, 04:01:24 PM »
Quote from: Jakster1 on August 07, 2014, 01:36:08 PM
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Loads%20and%20towing/Safe%20towing/Safe_towing_guide.pdf


Page 7 & 8 spell it out


Geez, if my trailer had a single safety chain like the one pictured on p.5, I would be very, very worried!

It has two that are each at least double the link thickness of that - i.e. approx. 4x the breaking strain.

The D shackles I use are also at least double the diameter of the chain pictured.

Who are these idiots?

Oh, that's right - government ... Nuff said.

Oh, another minor detail - how does one cross over a single safety chain?

And yet another one ... The ball and coupling on my trailer are both stamped "5000 lb". Now that's only 2,272.7273 Kgs, not the required 2,300 Kgs ... .
I wonder if that's OK for a trailer that has (by law, as it is an un-braked trailer) a maximum ATM/GVM of 750 Kgs ...  ??? .

DRONGOS!
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