Author Topic: Leadership spill happened...  (Read 27249 times)

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Offline gronk

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #125 on: August 25, 2018, 07:22:15 PM »


I cannot remember the last time I actually voted for a party. I just get my name ticked off and leave the forms blank and put them in the ballot box.

 

Mark

I have done the same some years....even left a msg on top of the form....f**k you.......just so the vote counter has something to talk about before they trow the form in the bin !!  ;D
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Offline glenm64

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #126 on: August 25, 2018, 07:22:28 PM »
It does not worry me who gets in power and runs the country.

They never do what they say, in fact the opposite.

They continually lie.

They are only there to look after themselves.

They do not give a Shite about the voters.

Next election we will hear the same crap and lies and yet people still believe them and vote what ever party in.

Mark

Sadly Mark your dead right. Its been a long time since we had men of vision, with hearts that were for the people, country and future generational betterment.
The only polly I can think of that gives a rats arse about the workers is Doug Cameron, and sadly he is retiring after this term.
But there are working class men and women who genuinely want to leave the world in as good a shape as we can. Thats why the union movement still supports and tries to influence the policies of the ALP. Otherwise the flood gates would open and as bad as things are, we would be truly screwed by the greedy corporates of this world that really run the show.

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Offline tryagain

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #127 on: August 25, 2018, 09:24:14 PM »
People take for granted all the hard fought victories the union movement has made FOR ALL.

Compulsory super.
40hr work week.
Annual leave.
OH&S.
Workers compensation
Equal pay for Women.
Maternity leave.
Sick Leave.
Long service leave.
Meal breaks(yes you had to work ALL day without a break)
Thats just a start.


Was it a coincidence that as unions began getting stronger, child labour was eventually regulated and then made illegal?
I visit my grand dads grave in Fremantle and in that whole older section theres his and dozens of others buried by the unions because they were worked to death, died poor, and it was the Lumpers and WWF unions that gave them the decency of a burial.
Ever heard of The Hungry Mile and the Bull System? It wasnt so long ago.
Yep unions have ruined this country.

As you can tell Im slightly a "little" bit left.




Cheers Glen

Those achievements were from a time when the union's actually cared about workers, my experience is that now they will happily sell out those they are supposed to represent for self interest. I am sure there are still some good people involved but I think as a whole they are a shadow of their former self and past their used by date.

As for the Whitlam comparison, I realise it's just a bit of political advertising bit how anybody takes that seriously I don't know, there are always two sides to every coin, but the fact the the Australian public decided to give a massive majority (91 seats to 36) to Fraser after Kerr turfed Whitlam out is enough to show that he was far from an effective leader.

Offline gronk

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #128 on: August 25, 2018, 10:04:05 PM »
Those achievements were from a time when the union's actually cared about workers, my experience is that now they will happily sell out those they are supposed to represent for self interest.

That may happen at the top level of any big organisation, but at the "coal face ", the workers are still represented by the "little" men who have their hearts in the right place.

Not unlike the local representative of a political party....who think they are in it for the right reasons....until they climb the ladder and find themselves feeding out of the same trough as the parliament pigs !!
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Offline Hookie

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #129 on: August 26, 2018, 07:33:01 AM »
The only polly I can think of that gives a rats arse about the workers is Doug Cameron, and sadly he is retiring after this term.

That's news to me. Makes me sad, I like Doug too. Labour needs more like him.

Offline Rumpig

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #130 on: August 26, 2018, 08:06:17 AM »
Used to really love it many years ago when Labor were in power and the union guys would randomly pay our jobsites a visit trying to get all the subbies to join up...all with no luck...guaranteed every single time, the very next day a government Work Place Health and Safety guy would miraculously show up and give the site a hard time trying to shut the site down.....no collusion going on there at all ::) ::) whilst the unions have a place and have done good things for workers rights over the years, I have zero respect for the way they operated at the times I have had anything to do with them.
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Offline gronk

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #131 on: August 26, 2018, 08:23:52 AM »
Used to really love it many years ago when Labor were in power and the union guys would randomly pay our jobsites a visit trying to get all the subbies to join up...all with no luck...guaranteed every single time, the very next day a government Work Place Health and Safety guy would miraculously show up and give the site a hard time trying to shut the site down.....no collusion going on there at all ::) ::) whilst the unions have a place and have done good things for workers rights over the years, I have zero respect for the way they operated at the times I have had anything to do with them.

In the mines , a totally different workplace. We were covered by the mines OH&S, so one of the few industries with no ties to Workcover.
Different now, but yrs ago, everyone was in the union. We plodded along and did our own thing......until we amalgamated with the construction mob !
These days, the non unionists sit back and let the union get better pay or conditions, then get the benifits.......which they are entitled to do, but I didn't agree with it.
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #132 on: August 26, 2018, 08:28:30 AM »
I've given up.
Given up watching, listening or reading the NEWS.
Now I find myself a truck driver, I just have the Radio on JJ for the no talking and great random music they have.
At night, I spend it with the kids.
So now on, I don't care. What's the point. We'll now see the come back of Clive, Pauline will have more numbers, so to Katter, hey, how about the camping party, they have a good chance. Lets include Ricky again with his 17 in 1,000 votes, and the sex party.
Full on circus then
Then we'll be like Belgium, where I lived for a while, when they had no government for 2 years due to not being able to settle a result of a polling day.
Lots of entertainment to come with no issues or needs of US will be sorted out.
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Offline Rumpig

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #133 on: August 26, 2018, 09:27:19 AM »
In the mines , a totally different workplace. We were covered by the mines OH&S, so one of the few industries with no ties to Workcover.
Different now, but yrs ago, everyone was in the union. We plodded along and did our own thing......until we amalgamated with the construction mob !
These days, the non unionists sit back and let the union get better pay or conditions, then get the benifits.......which they are entitled to do, but I didn't agree with it.
being a self employed subbie i get to dictate my own pay rate, don't like the rate then I don't work for that builder....never worked in the mining or commercial sector in over 25 years of self employment and don't plan to any time soon, the BS paperwork and over the top WH&S that goes on there is not for me.
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Offline glenm64

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #134 on: August 26, 2018, 10:02:04 AM »



 how anybody takes that seriously I don't know, there are always two sides to every coin, but the fact the the Australian public decided to give a massive majority (91 seats to 36) to Fraser after Kerr turfed Whitlam out is enough to show that he was far from an effective leader.

Yes Whitlam got flogged in the 75 election. Australia had just gone through the 73 oil crisis  where oil prices had tripled, and that then ran into the 73 - 75 world wide recession.
On top of that Labor had the Khemlani loans affair, where they tried to raise funds from the middle east (which was awash with cash due to the oil crisis) .
The loans were to be at lower interest rates than the formal US bond market, but not done through the Aus Finance department. When it was reported on, they denied it and that was the end of them when Fraser blocked supply.
As for Whitlams legacy being bit of PR fluff, heres a bit more detail of his achievements in 3 years. Taken from an article a few years back in the SMH.
 


Gough Whitlam is perhaps best known for the manner in which he prematurely exited from power rather than how he chose to wield it
But wield it he did. Whitlam's short three-year shelf life as prime minister is generally recognised as one of Australia's most reforming governments.
Conservative government has been the norm in Australian politics since federation and the preference is for reform by increment rather than by rush. Consequently, much of what Gough Whitlam built – such as a free university education – has been torn down by successive governments on both sides of the political spectrum.
But what remains continues to shape Australia's national life like a guardian angel. Here is some of the Whitlam legacy:
? His government extricated Australia from the Vietnam War and abolished conscription. Australia had been fighting in South Vietnam since 1962. Two years later conscription was introduced but the first wave of baby boomers rebelled and eventually they, and their elders, took to the streets in moratorium nationwide marches that saw mass civil disobedience reflect the prevailing view. Labor's anti-war policy became one of Whitlam's most powerful election campaign assets.
? Whitlam took the demonology out of foreign policy, recognising China after the Coalition had refused contact with Beijing for 24 years. Whitlam ripped the rug from beneath Bill McMahon when he led a Labor delegation to China in July 1971 and the Coalition prime minister accused him of being a Communist pawn only to see United States President Richard Nixon announce his proposed visit to China a week later. Whitlam also attempted to redefine the alliance with the US.
  ? Medibank, the precursor to Medicare, was established.
? Social welfare reforms included the supporting mother's benefit and welfare payment for homeless people. Before 1973 only widows were entitled to pension payments, so other women who were raising children alone faced invidious choices. But the pension payment gave single mothers choices and options around the raising of their children. It also helped remove old stigmas around single mothers.
? Equal pay for women: One of the first acts of the Whitlam government was to reopen the National Wage and Equal Pay cases at the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission. The 1972 Equal Pay case meant that Australian women doing work similar to that done by men should be paid an equal wage. Two years later the commission extended the adult minimum wage to include women workers for the first time.
? The Postmaster-General's Department was replaced by the twin-headed Telecom and Australia Post.
? The Australian Legal Office and Australian Law Reform Commission were set up.
  ? The death penalty for Commonwealth offences was abolished. Melbourne escapee Ronald Ryan was the last man executed in Australia on February 3, 1967, for shooting a prison guard. Victoria and some state governments (not NSW which abolished capital punishment for murder in 1955) remained proponents of the death penalty. Whitlam's reforms led to the 2010 federal legislation prohibiting the reinstatement of capital punishment in all Australian states and territories.
? The Family Law Act providing for a national Family Court was enacted, and simplified, non-punitive divorce laws were introduced.
? The Whitlam government also established needs-based funding for schools after appointing Peter Karmel to head a committee examining the position of government and non-government primary and secondary schools throughout Australia. Karmel's report identified many inequities in the funding system, which for the first time led to the federal government providing funding to state schools.
? A free university education was briefly available to all Australians. In Whitlam's three years of government, participation in higher education increased by 25 per cent, to 276,559 enrolments. The main beneficiaries were women.
? Amid widespread business and union opposition, in 1973 the Australian economy was opened to the world by a 25 per cent cut in tariffs across the board. An early forerunner of the Productivity Commission was established as was the Trade Practices Act and a predecessor of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
  ? The Australian Assistance Plan to fund regional councils and employment projects continues in the concepts of "social planning" and "community development".
? The National Sewerage Program connected suburban homes to sewerage. The government spent $330 million on the program before it was cancelled by the Fraser government but in Sydney the backlog of unsewered properties fell from 158,884 in 1973 to 95,505 in 1978. Similarly, in Melbourne, the backlog was reduced from 160,000 in 1972-73, to 88,000 in 1978-79.
? The Whitlam government reduced the voting age to 18 and provided the Northern Territory and Australian Capital Territory with representation in the Senate.
? It replaced God Save the Queen with Advance Australia Fair as the national anthem.
? Queen Elizabeth became Queen of Australia when she signed her assent to The Royal Style and Titles Act 1973. The legislation also deleted the traditional reference to the Queen as Head of the Church of England by removing "Defender of the Faith" from her Australian titles.
  ? An Order of Australia replaced the British Honours system.
? The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 conferred rights to equality before the law and bound the Commonwealth and the states to the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination.
? The Department of Aboriginal Affairs was set up and the first Commonwealth legislation to grant land rights to indigenous people was drafted. The subsequent Malcolm Fraser government passed the legislation.
? Land title deeds were handed to some Gurindji traditional lands owners in the Northern Territory in 1975, a real and symbolic gesture that became a touchstone for the land rights movement.
? The Whitlam government also established the National Gallery of Australia, the Australia Council for the Arts, the Australian Heritage Commission. It introduced FM radio, pushed for the setting up of 2JJ, a radio established to support Australian music and connect with young Australians. It set up multicultural radio services – 2EA Sydney and 3EA in Melbourne – and issued licences to community radio stations for the first time.
  ? The Australian film industry flowered and the Australian Film and Television School, an idea of a previous Coalition prime minister, John Gorton, was opened.
? The reorganisation and modernisation of Labor's policy platform saved the ALP from its past.
? Papua New Guinea became independent on September 16, 1975, after being administered from Australia since the First World War.


Cheers Glen

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Offline edz

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #135 on: August 26, 2018, 10:23:59 AM »
And apart from that ... What else have they done for us ...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ      ;D ;D
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Offline JusyApples

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #136 on: August 26, 2018, 10:40:43 AM »
Why don’t you detail how good Kevin07 was for Australia open borders, pink batts, building the education revolution I mean 1mil dollars for a Cola in a school was money really well spent.

Unions... well probably a good reason why Australia is no longer competitive and work is moved off shore. Unions push employers asking for ridiculous conditions and pay and wonder why things close down. Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.
They force contractors to sign up to the union before they are allowed to work on a job site, if they don’t they don’t get the work.
I see the CFMEU belters all the time in the cafes of Parramatta with their bikie looking long sleeved shirts with the big gold chains and roid munching necks hanging out. Their sole role is intimidation.



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Offline DrewXT

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #137 on: August 26, 2018, 11:11:49 AM »
I have done the same some years....even left a msg on top of the form....f**k you.......just so the vote counter has something to talk about before they trow the form in the bin !!  ;D
Those ballot papers get put in the box after you leave, and counted as a discarded vote.  Nothing goes in the bin anymore unless you put it there.

I think we need a PM like Trump, he's going to go down in US history as being the only president who ever delivered on an his election promises in his first term.

Love him or hate him, he's doing what he said he would...

My brief experience with unions, I worked at GM during Uni holidays, and the steward worked out after 6 weeks I wasn't a member, and was going to stand down the entire engine plant if I didn't join.  I didn't join, and GM compensated me for having to break my contract early.

Ironically, I worked there many years later for their IT provider, and the same steward had another go at shutting down the plant if I didn't join the union, despite being a contractor with no direct relationship to GM.

We have a white collar union in the door where I work now, but everyone who's a member gets nothing from them when the cards are down, as the company refuses to acknowledge them...

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Online Fizzie

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #138 on: August 26, 2018, 11:28:31 AM »
Somebody sent me this earlier on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QfXP5kDFqQ

Very, very definitely NSFW!!!, but also very true >:D
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Offline corndog

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #139 on: August 26, 2018, 11:39:49 AM »
Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.

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Not sure if they actually did earn that much. Cars are definitely no cheaper now that they are being made overseas for a 3rd of the price.

Offline glenm64

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #140 on: August 26, 2018, 11:41:42 AM »
Hey Jusy
Didnt see anywhere I defended Rudd. Just another professional polly. One of the worst things that happened to Labor.

Easy to make blanket statements with no background or substance.

As for money well spent, Australia was spared recession due to our domestic economy not collapsing like those countries where austerity measures were introduced, collapsing internal economies. People here in Australia have no idea how bad the world economy was in the midst of the GFC. We still had money coming in from gas and iron ore, but the inability of banks to borrow money from the international markets meant tightening of the domestic financial market, stalling our economy.
Swann/Rudd listened to economic advice to keep our economy going. The deaths from the HIP were from greedy contractors fleecing a scheme administered by government departments unable to cope.
Companies sprung up, run by unscrupulous people, using unskilled and untrained workers. Gutted government departments were unable to administer the scheme. Rudd was ignorant to it all. Thats what sadly killed the poor victims. When Combett was brought in to oversee it, he was terrified by what he found and it was shut down.

There was a royal commission into it. Every bothered to read its findings?

As for the CFMEU comments, well thats another blanket statement I'll let go to the keeper. I contend that to paint all unions with a brush you colour from one proud militant union is erroneous.

Again what is the alternative to having unions?
Going cap in hand individually to the boss begging for scraps?
It would be like the scene from Oliver Twist.


 

Cheers Glen

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Offline tryagain

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #141 on: August 26, 2018, 11:53:22 AM »
I have friends who are reasonably high up in the public service, one of them took on a new role in a different area and quickly identified someone incompetent and not doing anything, so they went to start the long process of managing them out, only to be told from the top that that the person is going no where, the union in the previous workplace negotions had traded off literally millions that their members could have received in order to gain a favour by getting this person the position.
It's one thing to intimidate people into paying membership fees, it's another all together to then rip them off for the privilege.

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #142 on: August 26, 2018, 12:18:13 PM »
Why don’t you detail how good Kevin07 was for Australia open borders, pink batts, building the education revolution I mean 1mil dollars for a Cola in a school was money really well spent.

Unions... well probably a good reason why Australia is no longer competitive and work is moved off shore
. Unions push employers asking for ridiculous conditions and pay and wonder why things close down. Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.
They force contractors to sign up to the union before they are allowed to work on a job site, if they don’t they don’t get the work.
I see the CFMEU belters all the time in the cafes of Parramatta with their bikie looking long sleeved shirts with the big gold chains and roid munching necks hanging out. Their sole role is intimidation.
Ignoring or course companies who decide they don't want to pay fare wages to workers, and are quite happy to exploit slave wage conditions of overseas workers, purely to boost their profit margin with absolutely no concern for what it does to the Australian economy, or it's workers.

It's always a two edged blade when you discuss employers and employees. The unions make it a bit easier for the average worker, now especially for the ones on individual contracts, to negotiate farer wages and conditions on more equal terms.
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Offline Troopy_03

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #143 on: August 26, 2018, 12:21:25 PM »
I have friends who are reasonably high up in the public service, one of them took on a new role in a different area and quickly identified someone incompetent and not doing anything, so they went to start the long process of managing them out, only to be told from the top that that the person is going no where, the union in the previous workplace negotions had traded off literally millions that their members could have received in order to gain a favour by getting this person the position.
It's one thing to intimidate people into paying membership fees, it's another all together to then rip them off for the privilege.

Yeah, plenty of stories/rumors like that floating around work places though.
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Offline Spada

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #144 on: August 26, 2018, 02:12:46 PM »
How did a mostly sensible discussion on the political events of the week deteriorate into a union bash ?

time to lock it up before it gets ugly I think  :-[
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Offline glenm64

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #145 on: August 26, 2018, 02:54:52 PM »
I dont have a problem with robust factual discussion. Just no need to take it personal or get personal.
Thats exactly what the powers to be want us to do. Keep the peasants hungry, desperate and fighting amongst themselves. Then they dont look up and start to question the status quo.
In fact the world politics of today is very similar to the age old rule of nobility. Without coming from wealthy or powerful backgrounds, the common man cannot get into the rulership structure. Thus those of wealth and power continue to consolidate and grow their position, exploiting the workers who generate it.



If you stand for nothing you fall for everything.



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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #146 on: August 26, 2018, 03:26:16 PM »
Those ballot papers get put in the box after you leave, and counted as a discarded vote.  Nothing goes in the bin anymore unless you put it there.

I think we need a PM like Trump, he's going to go down in US history as being the only president who ever delivered on an his election promises in his first term.

Love him or hate him, he's doing what he said he would...

My brief experience with unions, I worked at GM during Uni holidays, and the steward worked out after 6 weeks I wasn't a member, and was going to stand down the entire engine plant if I didn't join.  I didn't join, and GM compensated me for having to break my contract early.

Ironically, I worked there many years later for their IT provider, and the same steward had another go at shutting down the plant if I didn't join the union, despite being a contractor with no direct relationship to GM.

We have a white collar union in the door where I work now, but everyone who's a member gets nothing from them when the cards are down, as the company refuses to acknowledge them...

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You want a prime minister like trump... haven't we got enough two faced, egotistical, hypocritical, sexist, mentally unstable boof heads now?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 03:28:23 PM by Bigfish »
Having lots of friends on farcebook is the same as having lots of money in monopoly...means absolutely nothing!!
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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #147 on: August 26, 2018, 04:56:18 PM »
The difficulty with discussion / debate around politics and unions ( and religion for that matter) is it becomes emotive, boss vs worker, from my point of view neither would survive without the other. It is an age old argument and it will continue forever and a day.
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Offline JusyApples

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #148 on: August 26, 2018, 06:13:08 PM »
You want a prime minister like trump... haven't we got enough two faced, egotistical, hypocritical, sexist, mentally unstable boof heads now?
Take trump any day. You won’t find a fair trump o meter from any of the leftist media.




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Offline JusyApples

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Re: Leadership spill happened...
« Reply #149 on: August 26, 2018, 06:26:27 PM »
Hey Jusy
Didnt see anywhere I defended Rudd. Just another professional polly. One of the worst things that happened to Labor.

Easy to make blanket statements with no background or substance.

As for money well spent, Australia was spared recession due to our domestic economy not collapsing like those countries where austerity measures were introduced, collapsing internal economies. People here in Australia have no idea how bad the world economy was in the midst of the GFC. We still had money coming in from gas and iron ore, but the inability of banks to borrow money from the international markets meant tightening of the domestic financial market, stalling our economy.
Swann/Rudd listened to economic advice to keep our economy going. The deaths from the HIP were from greedy contractors fleecing a scheme administered by government departments unable to cope.
Companies sprung up, run by unscrupulous people, using unskilled and untrained workers. Gutted government departments were unable to administer the scheme. Rudd was ignorant to it all. Thats what sadly killed the poor victims. When Combett was brought in to oversee it, he was terrified by what he found and it was shut down.

There was a royal commission into it. Every bothered to read its findings?

As for the CFMEU comments, well thats another blanket statement I'll let go to the keeper. I contend that to paint all unions with a brush you colour from one proud militant union is erroneous.

Again what is the alternative to having unions?
Going cap in hand individually to the boss begging for scraps?
It would be like the scene from Oliver Twist.


 

Cheers Glen
Spared a recession due to spending every cent and now being in debt for god knows how long.

If you are a good worker an employer will do anything they can to keep you. Without having to be intimidated by thugs masking as unions reps. Look at good old Bill shorten fleecing hundreds of millions from cleaners when he was a union rep.

When he becomes prime minister just watch the boats come, watch our money being sunk into economic refugees. More money being wasted on solar and wind instead of building power stations.



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