Post by: duggie on December 26, 2018, 02:59:14 PM
He came up with a reasonable argument to back up his case .
Some people today are coming up with different ways to rob , bash/assault , rape and in some cases murder people .
As this is an unmarked police car , no visible police markings , that is wanting you to pull oner and stop , how could you know that it is in fact a honest member of the police force and not someone wanting to commit an offence by posing as a police officer .
You may be thinking , red/blue flashing lights , but you or I can buy red/blue flashing strobe lights for as little as $19 and fit then into/behind your grill or windscreen .
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8LED-Red-Blue-Car-Police-Strobe-Flash-Light-Dash-Emergency-3-Flashing-Lamp-DC12V/232429401410?epid=23006160272&hash=item361ddf3542:g:zH4AAOSwBnZbBn~w (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8LED-Red-Blue-Car-Police-Strobe-Flash-Light-Dash-Emergency-3-Flashing-Lamp-DC12V/232429401410?epid=23006160272&hash=item361ddf3542:g:zH4AAOSwBnZbBn~w)
By doing this does it make either you or I a police officer ?
No it does not , but I bet that if either you or I did fit these ebay purchased blue/red flashing lights , and activated these said lights whilst either behind or coming towards another vehicle , that vehicle would more than likely pull over and come to a stop .
Ultimately , by not pulling over/stopping for an unmarked police car , you will get pulled over/stopped by 1 or more marked police cars down the road .
As the person was saying yesterday , at that point he would have no problem pulling over and stopping . His argument when asked , would be that he feared for his , and/or those with him , safety , as he believed that the vehicle displaying the flashing lights may have wanted to harm/rob/kill him and/or those with him .
I don't know if this argument would pass the test , but it has/did get me thinking .
What would you do ?
Post by: JD-120 on December 26, 2018, 03:03:20 PM
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Post by: Bird on December 26, 2018, 03:12:25 PM
Quote from: duggie
No it does not , but I bet that if either you or I did fit these ebay purchased blue/red flashing lights , and activated these said lights whilst either behind or coming towards another vehicle , that vehicle would more than likely pull over and come to a stop .Young bloke back home did this in the 80's in his dads Magna company car... The issue was after weeks of having a ball pulling people over with lights and siren, he pulled over a car of Detectives that were out looking for this bogus cop car... The Snr cop at Cronulla taught him not to do it via his wallet, his dad lost his job.
Ultimately , by not pulling over/stopping for an unmarked police car , you will get pulled over/stopped by 1 or more marked police cars down the road .
As the person was saying yesterday , at that point he would have no problem pulling over and stopping . His argument when asked , would be that he feared for his , and/or those with him , safety , as he believed that the vehicle displaying the flashing lights may have wanted to harm/rob/kill him and/or those with him .
If you don't pull over, don't be shocked if you get the works
Quote
I don't know if this argument would pass the test , but it has/did get me thinking .As you get dragged out at gunpoint, I don't think there would be much in the way of discussion.
(https://www.shycart.com/productimages/ky-jelly-massage-2in1-Lubes-Gel.jpg)
Post by: Hoyks on December 26, 2018, 03:28:49 PM
It will be a newish, clean and well maintained vehicle, less than 2 years old.
Lights, if ignored will be soon accompanied by a siren to really get your attention.
You pull over and they will stop behind you.
A official looking person will get out in a well maintained uniform, approach your vehicle and have identification on display.
If its a crappy looking commodore and 2 guys in singlets pile out and come running at you, then drive off and call 000.
The 000 operator will be able to contact the area controller and will be able to confirm its a legit police car trying to get you to stop.
There was 4 teenagers in a beat up old car on the Gold Coast Motorway pulling people over, armed with an iPhone with a red/blue flashing screen, but one look at them should have been a giveaway.
Despite the best efforts of the media to make the average person scared of random acts of violence, its a minute number that get randomly attacked going about their lives. Most people that get assaulted know their attacker, whether its family, someone that holds a grudge or they owe $$/drugs to.
Or it could be a real copper that's having a really bad day https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-20/stephen-flanagan-guilty-over-pulling-gun-on-speeding-couple/8134192 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-20/stephen-flanagan-guilty-over-pulling-gun-on-speeding-couple/8134192)
Post by: edz on December 26, 2018, 03:37:29 PM
Reckon I'd pull over though ..
Dont reckon any grub would see a rough old 21 yro Hilux as a good target for anything other than an IOU .
Post by: nab on December 26, 2018, 03:56:15 PM
I bought those cheap police lights as a joke for a mate, they are pretty crap and nothing like the real lights. Real red and blues cost a fair bit and their brightness/intensity is much more than the ebay specials. No doubt could still get them online but a a bit harder to find and more $$$.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 26, 2018, 04:06:36 PM
Go to a Maccas Drive through for instance and ask for assistance.
Unmarked car at night time, wife or daughter on their own. cops would have to let them off.
Blokes will get a phone book around the head, kick in the arse and a court appearance the next day.
Post by: Mitch92 on December 26, 2018, 04:11:42 PM
Post by: JusyApples on December 26, 2018, 04:15:21 PM
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Post by: Kangaron on December 26, 2018, 04:50:24 PM
Pull over.
It will be a newish, clean and well maintained vehicle, less than 2 years old.
Back in the day we used to hit the second hand car yards for a "lend" or hire cars, or utes, or trucks.
But then again, we were not chasing cars for traffic crap.
Only dogs chase cars.
Post by: duggie on December 26, 2018, 05:17:03 PM
Pull over.
It will be a newish, clean and well maintained vehicle, less than 2 years old.
Lights, if ignored will be soon accompanied by a siren to really get your attention.
You pull over and they will stop behind you.
Up here in Northern Queensland they have and do use cars from the impound yard , some a bit older than 2 years .
They have used rice burners with P plates as unmarked patrol cars in Cairns .
As for a siren, I own 3 . These were bought and used when I was in the blasting industry ( to warn the public that explosives are about to be fired/exploded ) 1 of these is electronic and is adjustable to both different sound and pitch and it is very easy to make it sound the same as the police sirens .
Anyone can fit a siren , still does not make me a copper . But it could and would convince the general public that I am .
I think a wife or daughter at night time, would be best advised to head for a easy target, if unsure if car was cops or not..
Go to a Maccas Drive through for instance and ask for assistance.
Unmarked car at night time, wife or daughter on their own. cops would have to let them off.
Blokes will get a phone book around the head, kick in the arse and a court appearance the next day.
This is the exact sort of thing that got me thinking .
If one is in fear of been mugged, robbed, raped or killed . Where would they stand in a court of law , after all they ( the driver) did not fail to follow a police directive/order as the police were not displaying ( been unmarked car ) that they are a member of the police force .
Post by: Mace on December 26, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
Sit and wait with doors locked if worried.
Wait for the officer to produce their freddy.
:cheers:
Post by: KingBilly on December 26, 2018, 06:15:32 PM
Up here in Northern Queensland they have and do use cars from the impound yard , some a bit older than 2 years .
They have used rice burners with P plates as unmarked patrol cars in Cairns .
Thanks Duggie, I had a crap day at work and needed a good belly laugh.
KB
Post by: JusyApples on December 26, 2018, 06:59:42 PM
Pull over.What if they don’t carry a “Freddy”?
Sit and wait with doors locked if worried.
Wait for the officer to produce their freddy.
:cheers:
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Post by: duggie on December 26, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
What if they don’t carry a “Freddy”?
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They have never ever given me a Freddo Frog on any of the occasions that I have pulled over .
Post by: #jonesy on December 27, 2018, 04:36:28 AM
Post by: weeds on December 27, 2018, 08:39:34 AM
I’d pull over as the odds are very low.....
For the wife and daughter, at night, I have said to continue driving to a well lit area where there are other around and as other have said lever car in gear and wind the window down a bit or....
just ring 000 and ask if there is police activity where they are (not sure how well that would work)
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Post by: Bird on December 27, 2018, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: weeds
just ring 000 and ask if there is police activity where they are (not sure how well that would work)and add using a mobile phone to refusing to stop for bacon etc etc :D
Post by: weeds on December 27, 2018, 02:42:56 PM
and add using a mobile phone to refusing to stop for bacon etc etc :D
Suppose....
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Post by: #jonesy on December 27, 2018, 04:24:42 PM
It used to happen a bit years ago but haven’t heard of it lately......I wouldn't suggest ringing 000 unless they genuinely have doubts about who pulled them over. 000 is already overworked and don't need a "just wondering if this is really a police car"
I’d pull over as the odds are very low.....
For the wife and daughter, at night, I have said to continue driving to a well lit area where there are other around and as other have said lever car in gear and wind the window down a bit or....
just ring 000 and ask if there is police activity where they are (not sure how well that would work)
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Post by: weeds on December 27, 2018, 05:04:27 PM
I wouldn't suggest ringing 000 unless they genuinely have doubts about who pulled them over. 000 is already overworked and don't need a "just wondering if this is really a police car"
Wife or daughter driving solo at night and is concerned about a car following her with a dodgy blue or red flashing light.....000 is quite fine in my books. Just imagine if they don’t ring 000 and it’s turns out a whole lot worse. QLD under cover cars light up like a Xmas tree and you can always wait under sirens come on.
As I said it’s rare occurrence and I doubt they’ll ever be in that position.
I rang 000 just last week to report a minor fire, I tried calling the local regional station as I figured it would burn itself out and didn’t want to clog 000, they said call 000 and they will despatch them and that what I . Drove past the same spot XMAS eve and as I suspected the fire would have burned itself out before the crews got there.
A mate, before his last big trip, rang 000 from his sat phone that didn’t have a SIM fitted to prove or disprove that it actually works....it worked and they said it was a good idea to test....keep in mind the first person you talk to isn’t police/fire/ambulance .....
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Post by: Bill on December 27, 2018, 07:08:21 PM
I’ll ring 000 and inform them of what’s happening.
Then if they tell me it’s an actual officer I’ll pull over. And yes, they will tell you.
Baring that I’ll drive to a very busy public place and pull over.
Y’all might say I’m paranoid and maybe I’am but I don’t care.
My neighbor who happens to be my best mate is a cop and has been for nearly 20 years.
The stories I’ve heard from him justify my paranoia in my mind.
Bill
Post by: edz on December 27, 2018, 07:30:46 PM
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/man-sought-for-impersonating-police-during-attempted-robbery-20180704-p4zpdg.html (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/man-sought-for-impersonating-police-during-attempted-robbery-20180704-p4zpdg.html)
Post by: JD-120 on December 27, 2018, 07:34:55 PM
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Post by: GBC on December 28, 2018, 07:05:50 AM
Post by: Steffo1 on December 28, 2018, 08:48:49 AM
In qld the police have the right to pull you over in a marked or unmarked vehicle. Since the invention of the ‘random’ breath test, they can randomly profile anyone they want and pull them over for a test and a chat. You do not have the right to continue driving to anywhere you please. You have the right to remain in your locked vehicle until they sufficiently identify themselves which won’t take long because they mostly always have badges and guns. If the first one isn’t sufficient they’ll show you the second one. They also wear uniforms. If you’ve managed to get pulled up by non uniform Detectives for a traffic breach they’ll have a very good reason and may well have guns drawn anyway. I never understood how anyone thought that antagonising a copper would ever further their cause. In other states there are very strong penalties for failing to stop (jades law? Can’t recall - a toddler was killed by someone refusing to stop). If you intend to drive to a well lit public area, put your hazards on and slow down so the coppers know that you acknowledge them and intend to comply. They will not do anything unreasonable until you do. Ring police link or 000 if you fully suspect they are not police and comms will work it out within 30 seconds and dispatch many proper coppers to come save your arse.
All so very true....................for city slickers!
Post by: GBC on December 28, 2018, 09:06:18 AM
All so very true....................for city slickers!
Haha do you know somebody who lives in the country? :police:
Post by: Steffo1 on December 28, 2018, 10:04:15 AM
Haha do you know somebody who lives in the country? :police:
But, of course!!! My main man.
Tjupurulu Mulan. O0
Post by: GBC on December 28, 2018, 10:20:59 AM
But, of course!!! My main man.
Tjupurulu Mulan. O0
You spelt it wrong. A lot of unmarked traffic coppers get around the western desert? :cheers:
Post by: Steffo1 on December 28, 2018, 10:46:47 AM
Post by: edz on December 28, 2018, 12:33:11 PM
If you’ve managed to get pulled up by non uniform Detectives for a traffic breach they’ll have a very good reason
Quote
Yep being p*ssed out of their brains and ticked off that your girlfriend and her two flat mates knocked them and their advances plus an invite to a party back, Also tended to get you pulled up pretty quick at any hour of the day / night just because you fitted a description and followed for a few weeks, in my town ..
Post by: JD-120 on December 28, 2018, 12:57:09 PM
In qld the police have the right to pull you over in a marked or unmarked vehicle. Since the invention of the ‘random’ breath test, they can randomly profile anyone they want and pull them over for a test and a chat. You do not have the right to continue driving to anywhere you please. You have the right to remain in your locked vehicle until they sufficiently identify themselves which won’t take long because they mostly always have badges and guns. If the first one isn’t sufficient they’ll show you the second one. They also wear uniforms. If you’ve managed to get pulled up by non uniform Detectives for a traffic breach they’ll have a very good reason and may well have guns drawn anyway. I never understood how anyone thought that antagonising a copper would ever further their cause. In other states there are very strong penalties for failing to stop (jades law? Can’t recall - a toddler was killed by someone refusing to stop). If you intend to drive to a well lit public area, put your hazards on and slow down so the coppers know that you acknowledge them and intend to comply. They will not do anything unreasonable until you do. Ring police link or 000 if you fully suspect they are not police and comms will work it out within 30 seconds and dispatch many proper coppers to come save your arse.Best answer yet.
Refuse to pull over and don't be surprised with a not so polite response.
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Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 28, 2018, 02:00:03 PM
don't be surprised with a not so polite response.
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If they have to chase you, it ends up pretty similar too. ;D
:police: wasn't happy.....
Post by: JusyApples on December 28, 2018, 07:29:39 PM
Would like to see an official ruling from the police themselves.It’s quite simply an offence, legislation tells you it is.
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Post by: gronk on December 29, 2018, 01:37:57 PM
It’s quite simply an offence, legislation tells you it is.
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Yep, and for the nervous people who think otherwise, if a half normal looking bloke (or female ) pulls you over, and shows you their badge, it's about this time you start saying yes sir , no sir and anything else they want to know. And with a lot of luck, they MIGHT just let you off with a warning for the thing you just did wrong !! ;D
Post by: alnjan on December 29, 2018, 02:36:25 PM
Post by: JusyApples on December 30, 2018, 05:26:29 AM
By the same token, the Police, have been doing their job for a while. They can tell the difference between someone refusing to stop and someone not stopping. Yes there a difference. They are aware some people do have concerns about an unmarked vehicle pulling them over. Particularly at night, Police would rather pull are vehicle over in a well light, not for your safety, but for their safety. If you have concerns, firstly acknowledge them, by slowing firstly. Like I say, there is a big difference between refusing to stop and not stopping.In saying that though highway cars have cameras. If you do not call a pursuit on the radio you get a big kick up the butt so there is a high likelihood you will face a legal process
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Post by: alnjan on December 30, 2018, 08:09:42 AM
In saying that though highway cars have cameras. If you do not call a pursuit on the radio you get a big kick up the butt so there is a high likelihood you will face a legal process
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Big difference between a pursuit, refusing to stop and not stopping.
Post by: D4D on December 30, 2018, 03:36:21 PM
Post by: Hoyks on December 30, 2018, 04:27:03 PM
This was a marked car though...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/police-officer-draws-gun-on-pensioner-and-pepper-sprays-her-dog/10419258 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/police-officer-draws-gun-on-pensioner-and-pepper-sprays-her-dog/10419258)
Post by: KingBilly on December 30, 2018, 04:42:12 PM
Explaining yourself is a nice idea, provided you get the chance.
This was a marked car though...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/police-officer-draws-gun-on-pensioner-and-pepper-sprays-her-dog/10419258 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/police-officer-draws-gun-on-pensioner-and-pepper-sprays-her-dog/10419258)
This should be in the what made me smile thread ;D
There are always two sides to every story and somewhere in between is the truth. Unfortunately, the media only ever chooses to report the sensational side of a story. Bet the ABC will never report the court outcome.
KB
Post by: Hoyks on December 30, 2018, 04:55:20 PM
Cop pulls in behind her and puts his lights on.
she drives on...
lights and siren
she drives on
lights, siren, flashing headlights and horn
she pulls over a bit and slows
cop pulls in behind her
she drives back on to the road, drives home and parks in the shed
'I thought he was after someone else' ??? ???
Cop over reacted, maybe. Should she still have a license....
Post by: Bird on December 30, 2018, 07:14:48 PM
Explaining yourself is a nice idea, provided you get the chance.Sorry but she is too ****in stupid to have a license.
This was a marked car though...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/police-officer-draws-gun-on-pensioner-and-pepper-sprays-her-dog/10419258 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/police-officer-draws-gun-on-pensioner-and-pepper-sprays-her-dog/10419258)
You see a marked ambo/firetruck/bacon car following you bells and whistles, and you don't pull over (someone of her age should know what to do by now), then she should have had the book thrown at her, but the felame judge bought the whole box and dice.
Post by: Hairs on December 30, 2018, 08:17:06 PM
Sorry but she is too ****in stupid to have a license.90% aren't capable.
felame judge bought the whole box and dice.
A bleeding heart.
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Post by: Troopy_03 on January 01, 2019, 09:17:42 AM
This should be in the what made me smile thread ;D
There are always two sides to every story and somewhere in between is the truth. Unfortunately, the media only ever chooses to report the sensational side of a story. Bet the ABC will never report the court outcome.
KB
Yep, he's not only a wanker, he is arrogant. Hope she sues his arse off.
Post by: KingBilly on January 01, 2019, 09:38:16 AM
Yep, he's not only a wanker, he is arrogant. Hope she sues his arse off.
A well balanced, thoughtful response :cup:
KB
Post by: Merts on January 01, 2019, 11:34:45 AM
Yep, he's not only a wanker, he is arrogant. Hope she sues his arse off.
Whilst pulling the gun may have been an overreaction, it's a matter of fact that she failed to stop, and she was driving an unregistered vehicle. The mind blowing thing here is that the magistrate dismissed the charges when she was clearly guilty.
Post by: Pete79 on January 01, 2019, 11:52:12 AM
One side;
“Fines for driving unregistered vehicles have accelerated in NSW since the removal of car registration stickers in 2013, with hapless motorists blaming the state government for not sending reminders to renew registration.
Fines for driving unregistered in NSW, worth more than $240 million in state revenue over the past six years, are up from about 60,000 to 65,000 last year. There was a sharp jump in fines when registration stickers were first removed in 2013, and five years on they remained elevated, suggesting drivers have not adjusted to the new system.
Erasing rego stickers was sold as a "making life easier" measure but many drivers told The Sun-Herald it served as an everyday reminder. They say they were not contacted, reminded by post, email or SMS before NSW Police pulled them over and gave them two fines – one for being unregistered and one for being uninsured, worth $673 each.”
And the other side;
“THE last thing police expected when scanning for unregistered cars at their local station was to nab two of their own.
But that’s just what happened when a highway patrol car fitted with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology, known as ANPR, started reading plates in the Windsor Police Station carpark.
Two police vehicles were red flagged by the system last month for being unregistered and, therefore, uninsured, meaning its officers had been breaking the law each time they put them on the road.
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
But unlike the average NSW motorist, the station’s commanding officers decided to let themselves off without a fine, declaring that the vehicles hadn’t been in use at the time they were caught, and therefore no law was being flouted.”
See 2 sides to every story, or as its more commonly known “one rule them, different rules for everyone else”.
Post by: MDS69 on January 01, 2019, 11:56:38 AM
There is always 2 sides to every story...
One side;
“Fines for driving unregistered vehicles have accelerated in NSW since the removal of car registration stickers in 2013, with hapless motorists blaming the state government for not sending reminders to renew registration.
Fines for driving unregistered in NSW, worth more than $240 million in state revenue over the past six years, are up from about 60,000 to 65,000 last year. There was a sharp jump in fines when registration stickers were first removed in 2013, and five years on they remained elevated, suggesting drivers have not adjusted to the new system.
Erasing rego stickers was sold as a "making life easier" measure but many drivers told The Sun-Herald it served as an everyday reminder. They say they were not contacted, reminded by post, email or SMS before NSW Police pulled them over and gave them two fines – one for being unregistered and one for being uninsured, worth $673 each.”
And the other side;
“THE last thing police expected when scanning for unregistered cars at their local station was to nab two of their own.
But that’s just what happened when a highway patrol car fitted with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology, known as ANPR, started reading plates in the Windsor Police Station carpark.
Two police vehicles were red flagged by the system last month for being unregistered and, therefore, uninsured, meaning its officers had been breaking the law each time they put them on the road.
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
But unlike the average NSW motorist, the station’s commanding officers decided to let themselves off without a fine, declaring that the vehicles hadn’t been in use at the time they were caught, and therefore no law was being flouted.”
See 2 sides to every story, or as its more commonly known “one rule them, different rules for everyone else”.
When my rego is due in NSW I get two reminders. The first is when the current green slip insurer sends me a renewal and the second is when the RMS sends me my rego renewal papers. Haven’t missed a rego renewal yet.
Post by: shanegtr on January 01, 2019, 12:00:13 PM
There is always 2 sides to every story...I fail to see how that example is "one rule them, different rules for everyone else". If the vehicles where not being used at the time what is the offence? No different to having an unregistered vehicle sitting in your driveway - you cant get pinged for it if its not being used
One side;
“Fines for driving unregistered vehicles have accelerated in NSW since the removal of car registration stickers in 2013, with hapless motorists blaming the state government for not sending reminders to renew registration.
Fines for driving unregistered in NSW, worth more than $240 million in state revenue over the past six years, are up from about 60,000 to 65,000 last year. There was a sharp jump in fines when registration stickers were first removed in 2013, and five years on they remained elevated, suggesting drivers have not adjusted to the new system.
Erasing rego stickers was sold as a "making life easier" measure but many drivers told The Sun-Herald it served as an everyday reminder. They say they were not contacted, reminded by post, email or SMS before NSW Police pulled them over and gave them two fines – one for being unregistered and one for being uninsured, worth $673 each.”
And the other side;
“THE last thing police expected when scanning for unregistered cars at their local station was to nab two of their own.
But that’s just what happened when a highway patrol car fitted with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology, known as ANPR, started reading plates in the Windsor Police Station carpark.
Two police vehicles were red flagged by the system last month for being unregistered and, therefore, uninsured, meaning its officers had been breaking the law each time they put them on the road.
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
But unlike the average NSW motorist, the station’s commanding officers decided to let themselves off without a fine, declaring that the vehicles hadn’t been in use at the time they were caught, and therefore no law was being flouted.”
See 2 sides to every story, or as its more commonly known “one rule them, different rules for everyone else”.
Post by: Pete79 on January 01, 2019, 12:03:06 PM
I fail to see how that example is "one rule them, different rules for everyone else". If the vehicles where not being used at the time what is the offence? No different to having an unregistered vehicle sitting in your driveway - you cant get pinged for it if its not being usedSeveral weeks of driving unregistered vehicles on the road is most certainly an offense.
What if either of those police vehicles had been involved in an accident with you or your family while being used unregistered and uninsured??
Post by: shanegtr on January 01, 2019, 12:23:00 PM
Post by: JusyApples on January 01, 2019, 12:25:23 PM
There is always 2 sides to every story...No offence if the vehicle was not driven.
One side;
“Fines for driving unregistered vehicles have accelerated in NSW since the removal of car registration stickers in 2013, with hapless motorists blaming the state government for not sending reminders to renew registration.
Fines for driving unregistered in NSW, worth more than $240 million in state revenue over the past six years, are up from about 60,000 to 65,000 last year. There was a sharp jump in fines when registration stickers were first removed in 2013, and five years on they remained elevated, suggesting drivers have not adjusted to the new system.
Erasing rego stickers was sold as a "making life easier" measure but many drivers told The Sun-Herald it served as an everyday reminder. They say they were not contacted, reminded by post, email or SMS before NSW Police pulled them over and gave them two fines – one for being unregistered and one for being uninsured, worth $673 each.”
And the other side;
“THE last thing police expected when scanning for unregistered cars at their local station was to nab two of their own.
But that’s just what happened when a highway patrol car fitted with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology, known as ANPR, started reading plates in the Windsor Police Station carpark.
Two police vehicles were red flagged by the system last month for being unregistered and, therefore, uninsured, meaning its officers had been breaking the law each time they put them on the road.
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
But unlike the average NSW motorist, the station’s commanding officers decided to let themselves off without a fine, declaring that the vehicles hadn’t been in use at the time they were caught, and therefore no law was being flouted.”
See 2 sides to every story, or as its more commonly known “one rule them, different rules for everyone else”.
I get an email, a follow up email and a letter in the mail from both RMS and also from the insurer. So what excuse is there? Why can’t people be responsible for taking care of their own paperwork. I know my rego is due on the 10th of August, my other car the 22nd of September and my wife’s car the 30th of May.
People are just too lazy to get their Shit sorted themselves
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Post by: JD-120 on January 01, 2019, 12:58:46 PM
I forgot to rego my prado. Police pulled over the missus,.450$ fine but said if this is your first time forgetting, ring up and ask for a warning.
Wife made the call and the fine changed to a warning.
I liked the stickers as previously mentioned,served as a reminder
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Post by: rags on January 01, 2019, 01:04:06 PM
I don't need a rego sticker to remind me and suspect those who get caught need to take responsibility for their actions which may include ensuring rego details are kept up to date with the RMS RTA or whichever dept oversees vehicle regos.
Post by: JD-120 on January 01, 2019, 01:12:10 PM
those who get caught need to take responsibility for their actionsWhich brings us to the op. Keep driving, but take responsibility for the repercussions
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Post by: gronk on January 01, 2019, 01:26:31 PM
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
Daughter used to work at a big lease company for vehicles and one of her jobs was to ensure all cop cars were registered ( in NSW )..Would have been easy for one to slip thru the cracks ?? ;D Or two ?? :police:
Post by: KingBilly on January 01, 2019, 01:42:09 PM
Now if you do get caught unregistered, the first time, you will still get a ticket but if you immediately go to Qld Transport and pay your rego, like that day or the next business day, the ticket will be cancelled, no questions asked. Just don’t do it again.
KB
Post by: KingBilly on January 01, 2019, 01:45:17 PM
Several weeks of driving unregistered vehicles on the road is most certainly an offense.
Where did you get that info from? The other voice in your head?
Both of those vehicles could remain parked up for weeks and be used.
KB
Post by: JusyApples on January 01, 2019, 03:00:30 PM
Lol,.never forgotten to do anything ever???People may forget a day or two. But when it becomes weeks and months there is no excuse.
I forgot to rego my prado. Police pulled over the missus,.450$ fine but said if this is your first time forgetting, ring up and ask for a warning.
Wife made the call and the fine changed to a warning.
I liked the stickers as previously mentioned,served as a reminder
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Post by: JD-120 on January 01, 2019, 03:03:11 PM
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Post by: Pete79 on January 01, 2019, 03:07:50 PM
Where did you get that info from? The other voice in your head?The boss man said the vehicles where unregistered for several weeks, no mention of the vehicles being taken out of service during that time.
Both of those vehicles could remain parked up for weeks and be used.
KB
So I applied the rule for everyone else and assumed they had been using the vehicles completely unaware that they where breaking the law.
Sure, if I apply the rule for them then there is no way they could have possibly ever had inadvertently illegally driven unregistered and uninsured vehicles in the road. We all know it’s only those evil old ladies that do that sort of stuff... ;)
Post by: #jonesy on January 01, 2019, 03:23:19 PM
The boss man said the vehicles where unregistered for several weeks, no mention of the vehicles being taken out of service during that time.
So I applied the rule for everyone else and assumed they had been using the vehicles completely unaware that they where breaking the law.
Sure, if I apply the rule for them then there is no way they could have possibly ever had inadvertently illegally driven unregistered and uninsured vehicles in the road. We all know it’s only those evil old ladies that do that sort of stuff... ;)
So based on that if you get pulled up with your car being out of rego by a couple of weeks you expect the Policeman to issue you an additional fine for every day you might have used it???
Also the "increase" of fines for unregistered in NSW is more likely as ANPR became more widespread and the technology better at reading number plates.
Post by: Pottsy on January 01, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
Registration is just another important date you need to keep track, like licences, birthdays, anniversaries etc, forget them and the consequences can be severe, some more than others!
Post by: Hoyks on January 01, 2019, 03:47:46 PM
A call to Qld Transport told him that the plates had been issued, but no record of the rego or vehicle. Paperwork had got mixed up at the dealer and never submitted, so lucky he didn't hit anything and number plate scanning was still confined to scifi.
Free rego reminder sticker: https://www.greenslips.com.au/registration-a-ctp-greenslip-reminder-sticker-rego-sticker.html (https://www.greenslips.com.au/registration-a-ctp-greenslip-reminder-sticker-rego-sticker.html)
And the get out of gaol free card the police can play...
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2017/451/sch1 (https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2017/451/sch1)
Quote
13 Vehicles used in connection with police work(cf 2007 reg Sch 1 cl 13)
The registration provisions do not apply to any registrable vehicle that is being used in connection with police work and to which is affixed a number-plate issued by the Authority for the purpose of being substituted for the number-plate that would otherwise be required to be affixed to the vehicle by this Regulation.
Post by: kylarama on January 01, 2019, 03:53:01 PM
Or is it the prolific increase in number plate recognition technology being commonplace on the roads now?
My best mate is a licensed RWC tester. He reckons 40% of his RWC certs are to re-register a car, usually a result of a fine. That's 3 months of 'forgetting'....
The lack of stickers might be part of the problem, but I'm tipping the fact Police can now check all vehicles in even heavy traffic with ease.
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Post by: rags on January 01, 2019, 04:15:44 PM
So is rego sticker deletion really to blame for the massive increase in unregistered fines?
Or is it the prolific increase in number plate recognition technology being commonplace on the roads now?
My best mate is a licensed RWC tester. He reckons 40% of his RWC certs are to re-register a car, usually a result of a fine. That's 3 months of 'forgetting'....
The lack of stickers might be part of the problem, but I'm tipping the fact Police can now check all vehicles in even heavy traffic with ease.
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Have you ever wondered why in NSW there maybe a highway patrol car sitting on the side of a Motorway with traffic crawling by in peak hour?
It is to detect unregistered cars and unlicensed drivers with the number plate recognition technology. The number plate is always associated with an owner who may in fact be unlicensed or it is the daily double no rego, no licence.
The officer tasked with that shift is usually on one of their 'days of' doing an overtime shift, payed for by the RMS rather than the police budget.
I suspect this technology has ever thing to do with the increase in fines rather than there being an increase in unpaid rego because somebody relied on a rego sticker to prompt them to pay rego.
As to the Hawkesbury (Windsor) command having an unregistered boat trailer and tow tug, it is quite probable that the boat is not used for an extended period but rather dragged out and towed the short 2 kms to the boat ramp when there is an incident/ accident on the Upper Hawkesbury river, which may not be all that often.
Post by: JD-120 on January 01, 2019, 04:22:27 PM
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Post by: Pete79 on January 01, 2019, 04:33:27 PM
So based on that if you get pulled up with your car being out of rego by a couple of weeks you expect the Policeman to issue you an additional fine for every day you might have used itI’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at there.
Also the "increase" of fines for unregistered in NSW is more likely as ANPR became more widespread and the technology better at reading number plates.
My point was of the 65,000 people that have been fined a very large number of those where over 64 years old. Its a pretty safe bet that the vast majority of those fines where due to “administration errors” as well. And a number of those people fined would have argued that the time they got booked was the only time they had driven the vehicle since the redgo had expired. Obviously excuses are ignored and fined are issued.
The reason the police gave for not fining themselves was the vehicle was not being driven at the specific moment the plates were checked. They did not say the vehicles were out of service and had not moved in several weeks.
So in my view (rightly or wrongly) the police story should be weighted exactly the same as the other 64,000 peoples and one would find it hard to believe they had not left the station at any point in several weeks and one would also expect the officer in charge knew this when he declined to issue fines. Doesn’t fly with me, but I’m a bit of a cynical old bastard sometimes.
As for the no sticker thing, we never missed a single rego payment on our cars or trailer while we lived in NSW.
But we did forgot (as in honestly forgot) to pay the rego on my camping trailer before we left on our current family holiday (the camping trailer is currently parked at home, we towed the boat on this trip). We had received our renewal notice in the mail and stuck it on the fridge, it’s due for payment the day before we’re due to get back home next week.
I only remembered about it when I was reading this thread this morning and quickly logged onto the QLD transport to pay it on line, but I have no idea what the license plate number is and we don’t have any photos of the plates on either of our phones.
So it looks like they gov will be getting a few extra dollars off me when I finally pay it after the due date.
Forgetting is forgetting, we all do it from time to time.
Post by: Homerj on January 01, 2019, 04:33:53 PM
Where did you get that info from? The other voice in your head?
Both of those vehicles could remain parked up for weeks and be used.
KB
Log books would show if either had or had not been used in the period they were unregistered. If the log book says the car has been used in that time, there's the offence. I'm not aware of many police forces that would have a vehicle parked up and unused for weeks at a time.
Post by: JusyApples on January 01, 2019, 04:54:24 PM
Have you ever wondered why in NSW there maybe a highway patrol car sitting on the side of a Motorway with traffic crawling by in peak hour?That’s operation mercury. The officer is tasked to respond to collisions on the highways so the road is cleared ASAP. It’s a rostered shift not paid by RMS.
It is to detect unregistered cars and unlicensed drivers with the number plate recognition technology. The number plate is always associated with an owner who may in fact be unlicensed or it is the daily double no rego, no licence.
The officer tasked with that shift is usually on one of their 'days of' doing an overtime shift, payed for by the RMS rather than the police budget.
I suspect this technology has ever thing to do with the increase in fines rather than there being an increase in unpaid rego because somebody relied on a rego sticker to prompt them to pay rego.
As to the Hawkesbury (Windsor) command having an unregistered boat trailer and tow tug, it is quite probable that the boat is not used for an extended period but rather dragged out and towed the short 2 kms to the boat ramp when there is an incident/ accident on the Upper Hawkesbury river, which may not be all that often.
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Post by: Pete79 on January 01, 2019, 05:01:01 PM
That’s operation mercury. The officer is tasked to respond to collisions on the highways so the road is cleared ASAP. It’s a rostered shift not paid by RMS.Has operation mercury been going continuously for the last 6 or 7 years?
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Just asking as I’ve noticed those parked cars at overpasses and near merging lanes checking plates for at least the last 6 years.
Post by: KingBilly on January 01, 2019, 06:28:53 PM
Log books would show if either had or had not been used in the period they were unregistered. If the log book says the car has been used in that time, there's the offence. I'm not aware of many police forces that would have a vehicle parked up and unused for weeks at a time.
Yes, there would be a vehicle register, not a log book as such.
As for a vehicle being parked up for weeks, you obvously don’t know too much about specialist police vehicles, as these were both specialist vehicles ;D ;D
KB
Post by: #jonesy on January 01, 2019, 06:38:13 PM
Post by: GBC on January 01, 2019, 06:52:16 PM
There is always 2 sides to every story...
One side;
“Fines for driving unregistered vehicles have accelerated in NSW since the removal of car registration stickers in 2013, with hapless motorists blaming the state government for not sending reminders to renew registration.
Fines for driving unregistered in NSW, worth more than $240 million in state revenue over the past six years, are up from about 60,000 to 65,000 last year. There was a sharp jump in fines when registration stickers were first removed in 2013, and five years on they remained elevated, suggesting drivers have not adjusted to the new system.
Erasing rego stickers was sold as a "making life easier" measure but many drivers told The Sun-Herald it served as an everyday reminder. They say they were not contacted, reminded by post, email or SMS before NSW Police pulled them over and gave them two fines – one for being unregistered and one for being uninsured, worth $673 each.”
And the other side;
“THE last thing police expected when scanning for unregistered cars at their local station was to nab two of their own.
But that’s just what happened when a highway patrol car fitted with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology, known as ANPR, started reading plates in the Windsor Police Station carpark.
Two police vehicles were red flagged by the system last month for being unregistered and, therefore, uninsured, meaning its officers had been breaking the law each time they put them on the road.
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
But unlike the average NSW motorist, the station’s commanding officers decided to let themselves off without a fine, declaring that the vehicles hadn’t been in use at the time they were caught, and therefore no law was being flouted.”
See 2 sides to every story, or as its more commonly known “one rule them, different rules for everyone else”.
State governments self insure.
Second, what moron thought that having one state government department pay rego to another state government department on a state government owned vehicle was any sort of a bright idea? This type of wasteful money transfer happens all through the public service and is nuts.
Post by: rags on January 01, 2019, 07:00:24 PM
That’s operation mercury. The officer is tasked to respond to collisions on the highways so the road is cleared ASAP. It’s a rostered shift not paid by RMS.
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I'm only going off what the young bloke tells us,he is in a highway patrol command and does that shift often and it is in addition to his regular shift roster. He does it for the OT money to pay bills.
Post by: alnjan on January 01, 2019, 07:18:07 PM
I'm only going off what the young bloke tells us,he is in a highway patrol command and does that shift often and it is in addition to his regular shift roster. He does it for the OT money to pay bills.
Yep they work a rostered 8hrs shift and then RMS pay the over time to take it up to a 12hr shift.
Post by: JusyApples on January 01, 2019, 08:33:19 PM
Yep they work a rostered 8hrs shift and then RMS pay the over time to take it up to a 12hr shift.It’s a ten hour shift with 2hrs overtime but not for operation mercury. That’s a straight 10hr shift with no overtime.
It’s definitely not a cancelled rest day meaning 10hrs of OT.
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Post by: JusyApples on January 01, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Has operation mercury been going continuously for the last 6 or 7 years?In Sydney yes it’s been going for years, was previously called Freeflow.
Just asking as I’ve noticed those parked cars at overpasses and near merging lanes checking plates for at least the last 6 years.
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Post by: alnjan on January 02, 2019, 06:34:45 AM
It’s a ten hour shift with 2hrs overtime but not for operation mercury. That’s a straight 10hr shift with no overtime.
It’s definitely not a cancelled rest day meaning 10hrs of OT.
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Depends what their shift already was, 10hr or default 8hr, which ever RMS takes it up to 12hrs.
Post by: JusyApples on January 02, 2019, 06:38:59 AM
Depends what their shift already was, 10hr or default 8hr, which ever RMS takes it up to 12hrs.There is no 8hr shift.
Hwp do 10 hr shifts (9.5hrs with 30min meal break)
Certain shifts have a provision for 2hrs overtime.
The only 8hr shifts are cancelled rest days, meaning it’s actually a day off but the officer works and gets paid more. This is generally funded by the centre for road safety.
Post by: Troopy_03 on January 02, 2019, 08:23:24 AM
In Queensland, you can go online at any time and check the status of your vehicle rego. You can choose to have an electronic reminder sent and if you have a smart phone, that date is automatically added to your calendar. No excuse really, except laziness.
Now if you do get caught unregistered, the first time, you will still get a ticket but if you immediately go to Qld Transport and pay your rego, like that day or the next business day, the ticket will be cancelled, no questions asked. Just don’t do it again.
KB
And for the people who aren't on the internet, and don't have a smart phone? They do exist. There are quite a few old people who just aren't tech that savvy. But anyway, doesn't excuse the actions and attitude of the copper in that clip. I stand by my original statement.
Oh, you can also add "not too bright" to his faults. If you see a dog sitting beside it's owner, clearly in a protective role, you should expect that it may have a go at you, if you start man-handling the owner. Would have been much easier to let her secure the dog first.
Post by: GBC on January 02, 2019, 09:02:36 AM
Post by: edz on January 02, 2019, 12:16:52 PM
No footage other than chase / Only She said He said and did / Judge takes into account Blue Badge of reality statement / fail to stop / chase, drive unregistered what ever / case / sentence etc finalised, pay fine, Whinge all you like lady .
No Trial by Media for the Blue Badge of Reality .
Post by: alnjan on January 02, 2019, 08:38:52 PM
There is no 8hr shift.
Hwp do 10 hr shifts (9.5hrs with 30min meal break)
Certain shifts have a provision for 2hrs overtime.
The only 8hr shifts are cancelled rest days, meaning it’s actually a day off but the officer works and gets paid more. This is generally funded by the centre for road safety.
Did that come about with Highway going under the THPC? Shift lengths were determined by the troops within the Commanders. 8 (default), 10 or 12Hrs.
Post by: JusyApples on January 02, 2019, 09:14:37 PM
Did that come about with Highway going under the THPC? Shift lengths were determined by the troops within the Commanders. 8 (default), 10 or 12Hrs.As far as I know all regions do 10hr shifts. There has been a recent push for 12hr shifts like GDs but I can’t see it happening unfortunately.
If it was 8hr shifts you would pretty much work everyday and not get any cancelled rest days
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Post by: alnjan on January 02, 2019, 09:41:08 PM
As far as I know all regions do 10hr shifts. There has been a recent push for 12hr shifts like GDs but I can’t see it happening unfortunately.
If it was 8hr shifts you would pretty much work everyday and not get any cancelled rest days
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Most 24hr GDs are 12hr shift with a mix of 8hrs if needed for a 'summer roster', Non 24hr Stations will run either 8hr or 10hr some were doing a mix of the two. Same for Highway and other Specialist were also doing either the 8 or 10hr or a mix. It came down to majority rule and is the boss allowed it or how creative a roster person can be. Joys of flexible rostering.
Post by: Sixpack on January 04, 2019, 03:42:50 PM
There is always 2 sides to every story...
One side;
“Fines for driving unregistered vehicles have accelerated in NSW since the removal of car registration stickers in 2013, with hapless motorists blaming the state government for not sending reminders to renew registration.
Fines for driving unregistered in NSW, worth more than $240 million in state revenue over the past six years, are up from about 60,000 to 65,000 last year. There was a sharp jump in fines when registration stickers were first removed in 2013, and five years on they remained elevated, suggesting drivers have not adjusted to the new system.
Erasing rego stickers was sold as a "making life easier" measure but many drivers told The Sun-Herald it served as an everyday reminder. They say they were not contacted, reminded by post, email or SMS before NSW Police pulled them over and gave them two fines – one for being unregistered and one for being uninsured, worth $673 each.”
And the other side;
“THE last thing police expected when scanning for unregistered cars at their local station was to nab two of their own.
But that’s just what happened when a highway patrol car fitted with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology, known as ANPR, started reading plates in the Windsor Police Station carpark.
Two police vehicles were red flagged by the system last month for being unregistered and, therefore, uninsured, meaning its officers had been breaking the law each time they put them on the road.
The rogue vehicles were revealed as a mobile police van and a trailer used to launch the command’s police boat.
The station’s commander, Superintendent Steve Egginton, said both vehicles had been unregistered for several weeks.
A police spokesman said a paperwork error was to blame for the rego bungle, the same excuse used by thousands of drivers pinged every year by the ANPR system.
But unlike the average NSW motorist, the station’s commanding officers decided to let themselves off without a fine, declaring that the vehicles hadn’t been in use at the time they were caught, and therefore no law was being flouted.”
See 2 sides to every story, or as its more commonly known “one rule them, different rules for everyone else”.
I'm calling bullShit on this one Pete79. Considering the fact that Windsor Police Station was decommissioned in 1991, and ANPR was only introduced to the QPS a couple of years ago I find it very hard to believe that two police vehicles were detected unregistered recently.
Post by: Spada on January 04, 2019, 03:55:02 PM
I'm calling bullShit on this one Pete79. Considering the fact that Windsor Police Station was decommissioned in 1991, and ANPR was only introduced to the QPS a couple of years ago I find it very hard to believe that two police vehicles were detected unregistered recently.
Windsor QLD or Windsor NSW ?
I think the article was referring to the NSW station mate?
Post by: Sixpack on January 04, 2019, 04:01:31 PM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 04, 2019, 04:11:25 PM
Ok my blue
Ha, get back in ya corner.... ;D
How ya been Boof?
Post by: Sixpack on January 04, 2019, 04:16:41 PM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 04, 2019, 04:17:54 PM
Post by: Sixpack on January 04, 2019, 04:18:38 PM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 04, 2019, 04:25:41 PM
Good to hear. Did the move go well. I heard there was some shonky bastard in the Laidley region trying to sell cars.
:-X ;D
Post by: rags on January 04, 2019, 08:45:14 PM
Windsor QLD or Windsor NSW ?
I think the article was referring to the NSW station mate?
The original Windsor NSW station should have been decommissioned in 1991 but it took about 20 more years before the troops got a new station in a new location in Windsor.