MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: trinityalyce on April 16, 2018, 10:31:49 AM
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So, this is only loosely camping related, but I know there's some techies on here who may be able to point me in the right direction to get me started!
I'm after a home/personal cloud storage set-up that I can use both at home and away from home. Something like the WD My Cloud drives... I'm looking for something that is secure, allows me to access files from anywhere I have an internet connection with any of my devices, and is easy enough to use that my completely non-tech husband would be comfortable uploading and accessing files (a little more complicated set up is fine, as I'd be doing that. But I don't have the time on my hands to research and build some kind of complicated bespoke home server option!). A wifi hard drive was my first thought (as I routinely switch between two computers, the iPad etc. when I'm working at home), but I want to be able to keep the thing at home and access it remotely from anywhere, particularly when I'm travelling and want to back up photos/etc. and not just rely on my MacBook for storage!
(I should clearly add to this post that I'm after a physical home "server" type of set up... something along those lines. Not iCloud, Google Drive, etc. Sorry I wasn't clear initially!)
I haven't even scratched the surface yet with doing any research. So keen to hear what those of you with experience or in the know would suggest I look into.
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an office365 home subscription ($129 per year) offers pretty good value, with up to 5 users getting 1TB each of cloud storage via onedrive...
https://products.office.com/en-au/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?tab=1
(the personal version allows one user to get 1TB of storage... personally, i think the home version of the subscription is better value)...
onedrive have apps for just about every ecosystem... i have been using the onedrive platform for years and am currently using it via an iphone, ipad and home desktop (windows 10) with no issues...
allows me to save pictures taken on my iphone directly to my onedrive cloud storage (this option can be configured to upload via mobile data or only when connected to wifi)...
YMMV, but i see it as pretty good value...
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"google drive"
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+1 to OneDrive - the ability to have it synchronised across both my laptops, my Windows Phone and my Android tablet is great.
The ability to then share a folder with someone outside my network is useful as well - I've used it to share photos and videos with a friend after we've been away for a weekend together.
I have Office 365 Home as well, as it covers all of our devices (wife's laptop, iPhone and iPad) as well as my stuff.
Photos take moments to come from my phone to my laptop once I'm on a wifi network.
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Sorry, should have been a little more clear. I am looking for a physical set up at home. I am well aware of the limitations and downfalls of them, eg. limited by internet upload/download speeds, no off-site storage (well, for some options, other proprietary options have their own cloud back-up systems, etc.), and so on... But I think for what I'm looking for this will possibly work well for me. I do need to investigate further. I've been using third party cloud set ups (iCloud, Google Drive, etc.) for a while but they're not what I'm after for this purpose.
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then i would get one of these:
https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS218 (https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS218)
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Your talking about a NAS??
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=32727.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=32727.0)
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Backblaze. Works fantastically.
Aaron
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Sorry, should have been a little more clear. I am looking for a physical set up at home.
Backblaze. Works fantastically.
Aaron
i think OP is looking for a NAS-type setup, as previously advised...
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i think OP is looking for a NAS-type setup, as previously advised...
You've got it. Have done a little more digging so more familiar with the terminology. A NAS-type setup is the kind of thing I'm after. Given my time and knowledge limitations, something relatively straightforward to set up out of the box would be ideal (like the WD My Cloud or one of the Synology options or something?), unless there's some kind of dummy's guide for setting up a RAID array on a Linux server and running something like OwnCloud. LOL. I think at this stage doing something like the latter is a) beyond what I need and b) beyond what I could get up to speed on in a realistic amount of time (there'd be a lot of expletives and rants if I attempted to take that on!).
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Your talking about a NAS??
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=32727.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=32727.0)
Yep, but I didn't realise when first posting that was the term for it. LOL.
I've spent a good part of the day reading about some of the Synology gear though there seems to be potential issues with iOS/OSX systems, which would be an issue for me... Anyone on here used a Synology set up with Apple devices?
Part of my issue is I'm trying to future-proof, as I always do. So not only do I want it to handle what I'd current throw at it (which isn't a lot - photo and document cloud-type storage), but down the track I may add other systems or require other features (doubtful that our home internet would ever be stable enough for me to do away with my website hosting, LOL. But you get the idea.).
If anyone knows any good resources just to do the background research, get a good handle on what products/options are on the market and so forth, that's what I'm interested in at this stage. I'm pretty handy when it comes to learning tech, but its not a field I've ever been trained in and haven't spent much time learning about in a decent while, particularly not this stuff.
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If anyone knows any good resources just to do the background research, get a good handle on what products/options are on the market and so forth, that's what I'm interested in at this stage. I'm pretty handy when it comes to learning tech, but its not a field I've ever been trained in and haven't spent much time learning about in a decent while, particularly not this stuff.
future-proofing can be fraught with danger... but it makes sense to look a little into the future... more so with the amount of storage required...
also, don't buy the lowest end model, if you can afford it... the lowest models tend to have the least effective CPU and RAM configurations...
for the synology NAS models, base your research on their OS, which is Diskstation Manager (DSM)
https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm (https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm)
this will give you a good idea of what is possible with these NAS devices...
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Abode Lightroom Cloud.
http://news.adobe.com/press-release/creative-cloud/adobe-introduces-new-lightroom-cc-cloud-photography-service (http://news.adobe.com/press-release/creative-cloud/adobe-introduces-new-lightroom-cc-cloud-photography-service)
store and work of your photos
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Hi Trinity
If you have an old PC box sitting around there is a system called Unraid which is a NAS style system that runs on any old PC
I have been using it for years with no issues except for a failed hard drive. I just unplugged the old drive and plugged in a new one and it rebuilt all the data from what it had stored on the parity drive.
Basically it has a specified drive that stores all the data from the data drives and can rebuild it if any of the drives fail.
There is a big community for support not that I have ever needed it and is very customizable.
If the PC ever fails you can very easily move it to another PC. It is not hardware dependent like a lot of the NAS boxes.
PM me if you need any more info and I can help with a build if you need it.
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Modern NAS devices run very light on power , which is very important when it will be running 24/7 365 days a year and their security is very good right out of the box. On top of that they will have a huge range of app's that you can use to customise your setup.
We have both in use here at home, a pc that is mainly used as a games and weather server an then a Synology NAS that handles all the stuff that needs to be secure.
Synology have mobile app's for both apple and android and can be accessed on your desktop computers as well. You can sync folders between all the devices and can even have photos taken on your Phone/tablet automatically backed up to your NAS. You can even sync your dropbox and some other cloud storage sites to your NAS.
You need to remember that to give yourself access to your files you will be potentially exposing it to the net, so security is very very important. That is why most non techie people go with a NAS.
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Both Synology and Drobo make it easy but you pay for it.
Linux makes it more DIY, but you don't pay anywhere near as much.
Pick your poison :-)
Personally I was using Ubuntu on a HP N40L with 3x 2TB WD Reds in raid for quite a while. Never had an issue. I'm comfortable with Linux though. Since I've upgraded my desktop and it's always on, we just use that instead now (via Samba Share) and the N40L is turned off and sitting in the corner. Important stuff goes to Dropbox and/or Google Drive as well.
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Both Synology and Drobo make it easy but you pay for it.
Linux makes it more DIY, but you don't pay anywhere near as much.
Pick your poison :-)
linux is perfectly OK, if you are comfortable with it... pretty steep learning curve if you don't know much about it, to get to a level where you are confident in managing all of your primary data on a linux setup...
would disagree that synology (and qnap) units are expensive...
in both scenarios, drive storage is where the bulk of the cost is... NAS units themselves compare pretty well with server-grade or even workstation-grade components, when it comes to price...
as always, individual use case should guide which solution is best for each situation...
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We use the WD My Cloud. Seems to work well and able to access files from phone and iPad remotely.
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Synology and qnap would be my recommendation, primarily because you can set it and forget it.
If you want to future proof further down the track, you can also install another at a family members house and sync the data between the two of them...
Unraid, Amahi, ClearOS, and the other open source solutions are pretty cool, but if they do pear shaped you're a little more dependent on community support than with the Synology and qnap devices
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Synology and qnap would be my recommendation, primarily because you can set it and forget it.
Unraid, Amahi, ClearOS, and the other open source solutions are pretty cool, but if they do pear shaped you're a little more dependent on community support than with the Synology and qnap devices
I would disagree there. I had a ReadyNas that went pear shape and I could not get any data off the drives whatsoever as it had proprietry format on the drives ( I did get some data off it but it stripped all the file attributes so I ended up with millions of unnamed files). The good thing about any Linux based NAS systems is they use a standard formatting system. Unraid goes one step further in my mind where the whole system is hardware independant. If the PC it is loaded on goes under all you have to do is move the drives and USB boot drive to another PC and it is working again. There is no Raid systems to worry about and all the data is protected by a Parity drive. There is a browser based management system which covers all you need. I have never needed to go to the command prompt yet in 7 years of running my Unraid systems.
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I would disagree there. I had a ReadyNas that went pear shape and I could not get any data off the drives whatsoever as it had proprietry format on the drives ( I did get some data off it but it stripped all the file attributes so I ended up with millions of unnamed files). The good thing about any Linux based NAS systems is they use a standard formatting system. Unraid goes one step further in my mind where the whole system is hardware independant. If the PC it is loaded on goes under all you have to do is move the drives and USB boot drive to another PC and it is working again. There is no Raid systems to worry about and all the data is protected by a Parity drive. There is a browser based management system which covers all you need. I have never needed to go to the command prompt yet in 7 years of running my Unraid systems.
that's why you have a backup... :)
moving data from NAS to NAS (because of NAS failure) is not as dangerous as it once was...
some synology examples below:
https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Storage/How_can_I_recover_data_from_my_DiskStation_using_a_PC (https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Storage/How_can_I_recover_data_from_my_DiskStation_using_a_PC)
https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/General/How_to_migrate_between_Synology_NAS_DSM_5_0_and_later (https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/General/How_to_migrate_between_Synology_NAS_DSM_5_0_and_later)
and if a drive issue occurs (like all NAS/server implementations), you just follow the normal drive replacement procedures for your specific device...
no doubt those non-nas systems are powerful, but one advantage of the nas-based systems is that it doesn't take much to implement other features (remote access, web sites, etc) with a small amount of knowledge, which the OP has detailed...
i'm all for the build-your-own approach (and have two HP microservers on the go right now), but it's horses for courses and whether you are up for a learning curve, if needed...
as always, YMMV... and there are horror stories everywhere, no matter which way you go...
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Synology and qnap would be my recommendation, primarily because you can set it and forget it.
Agree... Keep it simple..
I've got a TS-431 Qnap - and the interface is so simple and intuitive that a few people here at work bought them and they are the kind of numpties that forget their password daily..
https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-431 (https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-431)
Looking to sell it though and get a 64bit 4 bay so I can run Plex
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Agree... Keep it simple..
I've got a TS-431 Qnap - and the interface is so simple and intuitive that a few people here at work bought them and they are the kind of numpties that forget their password daily..
https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-431 (https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-431)
Looking to sell it though and get a 64bit 4 bay so I can run Plex
So for a numpty like me can someone explain what these are??
I ask because we use a seperate hard drive that the mac's time machine system backs everything up to, which is great. Works perfectly and gives us peace of mind that we wont lose any of those precious photos etc.
But due to space restrictions we also use seperate drives to drop older photos etc onto for safe keeping. This is starting to get messy and out of hand.
So from what I am reading about these systems above, we can not only use them to back up through time machine but we can also just place files onto it for other computers in the house to access and even access them online while away? And it has slots for extra storage??
Is that how they work? It could essentially be a one stop shop for home digital storage solutions that the kids can access old movies...photos or whatever at home and when away??
Thanks for any help.
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You can share drives and folders etc on a NAS like a normal PC.. You give the NAS a static IP for ease of use.
So any machine you can map a drive on you can share anything from the NAS.
You can copy files directly to the NAS
Think of a NAS as a server - which is what it is..
The only thing is you do lose a bit of space running it in RAID5 but if you lose a drive, just wack in a new one and it rebuilds.
https://www.synology.com/en-global/support/RAID_calculator (https://www.synology.com/en-global/support/RAID_calculator)
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(I should clearly add to this post that I'm after a physical home "server" type of set up... something along those lines. Not iCloud, Google Drive, etc. Sorry I wasn't clear initially!)
I haven't even scratched the surface yet with doing any research. So keen to hear what those of you with experience or in the know would suggest I look into.
Can I ask why not iCloud or a Google Drive solution?
As I use Google especially for travel -- as it has nice ways to work work with documents off and online. Google photos really does rock off and online, and one of the few online solutions that views photo RAW files -- For instance someone knocked off your laptop, you have managed to obtained a cheapy from Officeworks, you are immediately able to view your photos with hardly any software just a web browser.
The problems with a server at home,
- As to work remote you will have to have something open to connect back -- That's a possible entry point for a hacker to login into your weak home network
- Power and aircon issues -- When your away, you have a nice little blackout or a brownout -- lighting strike, or even a power surge (your gear is down)
- You will have to rely on home's internet connection -- your home NBN connection has gone down, so you ring Bigpond or TPGI, to try to get them to fix while you are not at home (that's not going to work is it?
- You might have to ring up a friend to reset your home router and home NAS -- it's still not up, there would probably no way that your friend could help you.
- Using a home server, needs to be backed up -- O.K. maybe back up back to the cloud -- oh your back to the cloud >:D
- Online cloud solutions from either of Google or Icloud have very well sorted 2 factor auth regimes, could be something that could be a bit tricky to setup on a home server.
Things that are good travel, and in general.
- Get a decent password manager that work off and online
- try not to use the same password on different sites -- for instance especially myswag the connection is not encrypted, making the password easy to steal, if you have used a common password that you have used on MySwag consider changing all your other passwords -- that's where a decent password manager is essential
- Encrypt your laptop hard drive, and use a decent login password on your laptop, they are just to easy to knock off out of your 4WD, caravan or camper
I can keep going, but I reckon a good setup is have a good cloud solution with a NAS to store what you can afford to loose, like your pirate stuff and may be back up some of the cloud stuff back to the NAS, and when you go away just switch everything off.
:cheers:
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Can I ask why not iCloud or a Google Drive solution?
Its not so much about not using a large Cloud option like Google Drive, iCloud, Dropbox, etc., as using different tools for different purposes. I do already use the iCloud for some things.
You raise some really, really good points that a lot more people should be aware of. I personally do use a password manager so that I can have stupidly complicated unique passwords for everything, LOL. So I'm never all that concerned when some website I use has a data breach (which has happened to me more than once) and my login details are compromised - I can just change the password for that site and am not worried about other accounts being compromised. (I also have multiple email accounts and use some for the more "spammy", less trustworthy websites - huge help!)
I think I noted in a previous comment that I'm aware that a NAS type setup relies on the stability of your internet. Personally that's why I wouldn't use something like that as a web or mail server, even though you technically can. No way is my internet connection that reliable (we only had a technician out last week, LOL). It is unlikely going to be the end of the world if I can't access something on my NAS set up for a few days if it took that long to get an internet issue sorted and I was away. I always have a house sitter stay if I do extended travel, so I'd be aware of any internet problems as they arose. House sitter also solves some of the other issues you've mentioned.
Part of the reason I'm looking for a NAS type set up is security and privacy. There are certain documents and files that I would be very apprehensive about storing in a more widely accessible Cloud. Sure, I realise 100% that you've gotta be careful with what you store on a NAS set up too, but at least I can have some degree of control over how secure it is - that's part of the homework I'm doing now on different systems, and something that will make or break my decision to get one/a particular system. Security of the home network would also be beefed up if I do go down this path.
The other issue is data ownership, copyright, use licensing, that sort of thing. Depending on the service and their very detailed terms, you may find that you have signed over ownership and/or use rights to your data with a Cloud service (take Instagram as an example there - far as I'm aware Instagram can still use the photos you upload in any way they see fit, without your consent... because you've already given it... unless they've since changed that detail in their ToS). I know that certain companies don't use Dropbox/other Cloud services for work-related documents for this reason, and certain academic libraries discourage academics from using some of those services for that reason also... particularly when servers are off-shore (International Copyright Law isn't one of my strengths, LOL, but apparently that can create a problem). With a NAS, I don't have that problem. I own the server, I own the files, no one has access to them without my say-so. Simples. LOL.
The one "issue" with a NAS I haven't completely solved is the ability to do an off-site backup of whatever I have stored on my NAS system. Unless I rope a family member into also setting one up. In which case I can tick that off the list as achievable also. ;D I'd plan to do some kind of local back-up of anything critical on a regular basis too.
I'm definitely not saying I have all the answers. There are a lot of potential downfalls, issues and compromises. But I wouldn't be using the NAS alone as my only "Cloud" option, only back up location, etc. For me this is just the research phase. Reasons why I'd get a NAS won't apply to or suit others. Heck, it may end up being all too difficult and I might not bother, LOL.
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Also, thank you to everyone who's added suggestions, advice and input. It's definitely helped a lot. At this early stage I'm looking at the likes of a Synology unit, but no idea just yet exactly what would suit. I have a LOT more reading still to do! ;)
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The one "issue" with a NAS I haven't completely solved is the ability to do an off-site backup of whatever I have stored on my NAS system. Unless I rope a family member into also setting one up. In which case I can tick that off the list as achievable also. ;D I'd plan to do some kind of local back-up of anything critical on a regular basis too.
look up amazon glacier and how it integrates with synology for your offsite backups...
https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/
the synology NAS has glacier support built in...
i am using glacier as my offsite backup solution... costs me about $3 a month for 500gb
the key is that it costs less if you don't have to restore from it very often and you're not in a mad rush to get the stuff back...
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look up amazon glacier and how it integrates with synology for your offsite backups...
https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/
the synology NAS has glacier support built in...
i am using glacier as my offsite backup solution... costs me about $3 a month for 500gb
the key is that it costs less if you don't have to restore from it very often and you're not in a mad rush to get the stuff back...
Will definitely look into it, cheers.
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amazon glacier is not the only type of cheap, long term cloud storage...
backblaze has their own solution - B2
https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage.html (https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage.html)
also integrates nicely with a synology (qnap) NAS device...
https://www.backblaze.com/b2/partner-synology.html (https://www.backblaze.com/b2/partner-synology.html)
just remember, these types of cloud storage options are cheap because the expectation is that they are for disaster recovery only, and you won't actually be retrieving from them very often...
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amazon glacier is not the only type of cheap, long term cloud storage...
just remember, these types of cloud storage options are cheap because the expectation is that they are for disaster recovery only, and you won't actually be retrieving from them very often.
theres dozens of pages showing the good/bad/ugly in all the options.
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theres dozens of pages showing the good/bad/ugly in all the options.
just trying to help, mate... not trying to sell anything...
i do have some experience in this particular area, so i thought i would try and contribute...
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just trying to help, mate... not trying to sell anything..
na na not bolloxin ya... you should know me better than that by now :P
Just sayin so he can see the options in 1 place
although I do hesitate to believe any reviews by magazines they are useful for listing options so you can make up ya mind or find independent reviews..
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na na not bolloxin ya... you should know me better than that by now :P
Just sayin so he can see the options in 1 place
although I do hesitate to believe any reviews by magazines they are useful for listing options so you can make up ya mind or find independent reviews..
fair enough... ;D
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It could essentially be a one stop shop for home digital storage solutions that the kids can access old movies...photos or whatever at home and when away??
Run a program called Plex and it you can stream movies, music, what ever you like to most devices, (phones, tablets, tv's etc) as long as you have internets connection.. Note; you need a 64bit NAS to run Plex.
Bloke at work steams music from his NAS to work PC or phone all day and movies LOL.. well he is the boss :(
Just installed it on my NAS and my mobile phone for much happy :)
I believe you can have your phones etc auto backup to the NAS remotely too but still gettin my head around the new NAS.
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So I've got few test songs on the NAS at home, and playing them here at work on PC through the browser 8)
Movies next :D
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I'm late to this conversation but in case you are still looking for a solution trinity - consider just using an old computer and a VPN. Personally I have a small Cisco router to be the VPN server but if you want something simpler then use a software solution like Hamachi.
Kirsty's Mac Mini and my Windows PC store their own files locally which are then automatically backed up to an old PC which has a couple of hard drives in a RAID 1 configuration which acts as a file server. The VPN router allows me to connect to anything on my network securely, but mainly I use it to access stuff on the file server while overseas.
If you are wedded to the Apple ecosystem then you could just use a mac mini or something with a desktop hard drive plugged into it running Hamachi as a file server. Mac mini's draw stuff all and if you put an SSD in them they run pretty well. Also if you use Hamachi you don't need to stuff around with the firewall settings in your modem/router to open up the right ports.
The Synology and QNAP NAS products are really good but the issue I have with them is that if you DO happen to have an issue you are relying on their tech support. With my own PC's I am quite proficient in supporting those myself and I don't need to rely on anyone else.
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What the F**K language are you guys talking in
Makes my quarterly back up to an external hard drive look ancient
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Thanks guys! This all went on the back-burner for a bit but will definitely be putting the wheels in motion sometime in the foreseeable future! :D The advice and suggestions on here have been awesome.
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Diggity Dig.
Well worth revisiting with Gronk nearly binning all his photos and the lot due to a dropped laptop - who do you use for your online backs of all your precious stuff these days and rough costs?
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Diggity Dig.
Well worth revisiting with Gronk nearly binning all his photos and the lot due to a dropped laptop - who do you use for your online backs of all your precious stuff these days and rough costs?
Still using Backblaze for cloud backups...
500GB of files backed up for about $5 a month...
Done automatically via the NAS you sold me, Bird...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Still using Backblaze for cloud backups...
500GB of files backed up for about $5 a month...
Done automatically via the NAS you sold me, Bird...
Sweet - glad its still 8) 8) 8) 8) happily :) :) :)
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Sweet - glad its still 8) 8) 8) 8) happily :) :) :)
Me too... it’s running as my backup onsite NAS, which just runs a script to copy new or changed files to Backblaze...
To clarify, I use the B2 Cloud storage option with Backblaze...
It’s specifically designed for long term storage, with little copying back from their servers, unless a recovery is required.
That’s why it’s cheap...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I'll start looking tomorrow. Only want to store photos.
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Personally I use a second Unraid PC based nas that sits in my shed on a shelf that gets pulled out occasionally so I can update my backup from my server based main Unraid nas. Been doing this for about five years now and works fine. The second nas has some pretty good hardware sitting in a battered and ugly looking 15 yo pc case that no one in their right mind would steal. Thats the plan anyway. Is in a second building away from the house, is not connected to the net so is basically secure.