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Author Topic: Interesting read on electric cars  (Read 146288 times)

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #825 on: August 01, 2023, 11:03:30 AM »
Quote from: Champin on July 31, 2023, 06:46:40 PM
Yeah I've seen how hard they are to extinguish.  I suppose there is the toxic fumes to consider too.

Here's the Mouth warning on that-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ9-mW-cmdE

Note comment from @MidgetBarmaid-

As someone who works in the fire industry. A number massive global insurance companies banded together and spent millions on researching how to attack lithium-ion battery fires. They tried a few things to fight a lithium-oim fires. Putting water on the battery. This did not work. Next they started a battery fire and submerged under water. This did not work. They tried liquard nitrogen. They even tried using nitrogen gas and a vacuum chamber. After millions of dollars they worked out there is only one thing that can put out a lithium-ion fires. TIME. They stood on the stage of this massive conference (I was there) and said let it burn and wait it out. They tried a number of gases products that claim they can put out the a battery fire but these did not work due to them being self oxygen producing.

What they found with all this testing was car batteries are quite safe as the chances of something going wrong is small however still very severe. What they found out what they is currently rumours of aftermarket batteries being product for cars like Telsa, Ford, Honda and Toyota they are much much worse in quality. Look at electric scooter fires. They are super common because the batteries are rubbish. The Australian fire industry is extremely worried about the prospect of EV cars have poor quality aftermarket batteries driving relatively soon.
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #826 on: August 02, 2023, 01:36:44 AM »
We were told not to try and extinguish but to push outside the workshop if could be done safely and just let it burn out.
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Offline Champin

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #827 on: August 02, 2023, 05:00:53 AM »
Did they suggest how long that could take Dandy?

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #828 on: August 02, 2023, 10:11:29 AM »
https://wildfiretoday.com/2018/05/18/electric-vehicle-fires-can-take-3000-gallons-and-24-hours-to-extinguish/
Independent research and information for first responders produced by Tesla warn that a battery fire in an electric vehicle can take 3,000 gallons of water and up to 24 hours to fully suppress. Firefighters should immediately arrange for water tenders and use a master stream if possible.
Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures. Breathing apparatus is absolutely required. In some cases firefighters have run out of air and had to get a second bottle.


BA required... Which is a no Shit situation, but not all RFS carry them nor are most accredited for BA (or werent when I was playing).


https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=9391
https://www.evfiresafe.com/ev-fire-global-timeline
https://www.fireextinguisheronline.com.au/blog/post/electric-vehicle-fire-extinguisher-australia
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #829 on: August 02, 2023, 06:25:25 PM »
Quote from: Champin on August 02, 2023, 05:00:53 AM
Did they suggest how long that could take Dandy?

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No, but the cars I was working on had relatively small batteries. Luckily none have gone up in smoke.

Batteries under test have gone up, but they are restricted to a special building that contains the fire.

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Offline Hairs

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #830 on: August 15, 2023, 08:36:02 PM »
This should be in the joke section.
"Welcome to Bowen and Albanese's wonderful world of net zero.

For just $92,990, plus on-road costs you can drive away in a brand new, made in China, LDV eT60.

Dream of weekends away camping, caravaning or boating? Forget it, this beauty has a towing limit of 1,000kg and is only available in 2wd.

With a driving range of 330km (halved when towing or carrying a load), you better go without free floor mats and ask the salesman to throw in a diesel generator and a jerry can. You can just read a book (or 2)  while you wait between 1 and 9 hours for a recharge.

Not convinced? Here's the kicker, it's 'carbon neutral'. As long as you ignore its 3,050kg of steel, copper, lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt, graphite, zinc and rare earths etc. Don't forget to turn a blind eye to the coal fired power used in the factory, the diesel trains, trucks and ships used for transport and the fossil fuels you will use to charge it at night in the comfort of your own garage.

Virtue signalling sure is an expensive business."

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Offline Bad Scott

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #831 on: August 16, 2023, 06:49:57 AM »
Quote from: Hairs on August 15, 2023, 08:36:02 PM
This should be in the joke section.
"Welcome to Bowen and Albanese's wonderful world of net zero.

For just $92,990, plus on-road costs you can drive away in a brand new, made in China, LDV eT60.

Dream of weekends away camping, caravaning or boating? Forget it, this beauty has a towing limit of 1,000kg and is only available in 2wd.

With a driving range of 330km (halved when towing or carrying a load), you better go without free floor mats and ask the salesman to throw in a diesel generator and a jerry can. You can just read a book (or 2)  while you wait between 1 and 9 hours for a recharge.

Not convinced? Here's the kicker, it's 'carbon neutral'. As long as you ignore its 3,050kg of steel, copper, lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt, graphite, zinc and rare earths etc. Don't forget to turn a blind eye to the coal fired power used in the factory, the diesel trains, trucks and ships used for transport and the fossil fuels you will use to charge it at night in the comfort of your own garage.

Virtue signalling sure is an expensive business."

You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
At least the ultimate camper fits the towing capacity   >:D
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Offline Champin

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #832 on: August 17, 2023, 10:46:09 AM »
Just finished a book by Siddharth Kara called Cobalt Red. It would be interesting to see people's reaction to the child slavery, mutation and death, not to mention the destruction of land and water quality from where 70% of the world's Cobalt comes from. It is shocking we can allow this to happen in today's world where no-one wants to accept responsibility .
I apologise for the rant but the book truly sickened me.
 

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Offline NZMarkb

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #833 on: August 17, 2023, 11:26:57 AM »
Quote from: Champin on August 17, 2023, 10:46:09 AM
Just finished a book by Siddharth Kara called Cobalt Red. It would be interesting to see people's reaction to the child slavery, mutation and death, not to mention the destruction of land and water quality from where 70% of the world's Cobalt comes from. It is shocking we can allow this to happen in today's world where no-one wants to accept responsibility .
I apologise for the rant but the book truly sickened me.
 

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They should take all the greenies and throw them in the mines :cheers:
« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 11:30:19 AM by NZMarkb »
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #834 on: August 29, 2023, 12:26:46 PM »
There's no doubt Oz got out of car manufacturing at the right time-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/evs-are-more-expensive-to-repair-in-collisions-study-finds/ar-AA1fTw95
Is EV Tesla or hybrid Toyota on the right track or are they both in terms of remaining profitable enterprises with the Great Transition?
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Offline Black174

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #835 on: August 30, 2023, 01:16:09 PM »
I normally charge my Tesla at Moonee Ponds at the Tesla Supercharger, cost me about $20 per charge. Depends on how much I drive how offen I charge.
Found out last week that if I book an Early Bird parking spot in the City where there is a Tesla normal charger then I only pay $16 for the parking and the charge is for free.
The building where I work have a normal Tesla charger, so speed of charge is not an issue.
Park in the morning, plug in and fully charge when I leave at 5pm.
I normally use Public Transport or cycle in, so will only book a parking bay when the Tesla need a charge.

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #836 on: August 30, 2023, 05:06:19 PM »
The European carmakers are stuffed trying to compete with Chinese EVs which includes those Shanghai Teslas for Oz-
https://thedriven.io/2023/08/29/perfect-storm-how-china-used-evs-to-turned-the-table-on-european-car-makers/
You'd expect it won't be long before the EU goes protectionist like the US already has with domestic EV production.

OTOH Toyota are still kicking butt backing their hybrids for those not convinced battery cars will cut it for all-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/topstocks/toyota-s-global-sales-jump-in-july-to-hit-monthly-record/ar-AA1fY94i

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #837 on: September 01, 2023, 09:29:34 PM »
If we're interested in the big energy picture with the facts rather than hyperbole here's eloquent physicist Mark Mills on that-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrwORoNAQWA
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #838 on: September 03, 2023, 10:55:09 PM »
The best laid plans of mice and men making them compulsory- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7l4wR1zhbc
Toyota San may well have got it right choosing modest NiMh battery hybrids and the moment you witness a lithium battery fire get the Hell away from there and upwind fast.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #839 on: September 04, 2023, 09:53:09 AM »
FInally an electric car with sniff and looks... anyone got a spare 600k????

Legendary custom car creator Kindig ditches V8 for electric

Dave Kindig's latest creation looks like a C1 Corvette, but is an electric beast with more than 4000Nm of torque.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/legendary-custom-car-creator-kindig-ditches-v8-for-electric
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #840 on: September 04, 2023, 03:12:02 PM »
For 600k I’d expect a steering wheel on both sides.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #841 on: September 05, 2023, 09:51:01 AM »
Quote from: DandyD on September 04, 2023, 03:12:02 PM
For 600k I’d expect a steering wheel on both sides.
I'd expect a driver and free fuel... no wait.
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Offline xcvator

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #842 on: September 16, 2023, 06:02:11 PM »
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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #843 on: September 16, 2023, 06:07:17 PM »
Quote from: Champin on August 17, 2023, 10:46:09 AM
Just finished a book by Siddharth Kara called Cobalt Red. It would be interesting to see people's reaction to the child slavery, mutation and death, not to mention the destruction of land and water quality from where 70% of the world's Cobalt comes from. It is shocking we can allow this to happen in today's world where no-one wants to accept responsibility .
I apologise for the rant but the book truly sickened me.
 

Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk



 I felt a bit that way after reading "Blue Murder"
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Offline Bird

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #844 on: September 16, 2023, 07:55:20 PM »
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Offline Brij

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #845 on: September 16, 2023, 10:11:12 PM »
Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2023, 07:55:20 PM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/mg-electric-car-battery-catches-fire-sydney-airport/

Huh? ???

The car caught fire......caused by it's damaged battery.......that had been removed from the car.....
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #846 on: September 17, 2023, 02:48:48 AM »
The battery is on the ground in front of it. Actually, it’s partially under it.

A pretty stupid place to leave a battery that may have been damaged. They should have stored it well away from anything flammable.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2023, 02:58:39 AM by DandyD »
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Offline Fizzie

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #847 on: September 17, 2023, 07:08:38 AM »
But

"Australian research firm EV FireSafe – which records electric-car battery fires across the globe – found at least 375 electric vehicle fires were reported globally between 2010 and 30 April 2023, with an additional 87 incidents being investigated or unverified.

NSW Department of Fire and Emergency Services data – reported there were 2942 vehicle fires (including those powered by petrol, diesel or electricity) in New South Wales between July 2020 to June 2021."

Yep, them electric cars is awful dangerous! ::)
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #848 on: September 17, 2023, 10:53:57 PM »
It's not about the number of fires Fizzie or what starts them but the catastrophic risk with increasing lithium battery aggregation-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/massive-problem-sky-news-host-criticises-sudden-ev-fires/ar-AA1gPlLy
Insurance costs is what will likely choke EV ownership first in that respect but developed countries don't take too kindly to large lumpy loss of life like a Grenfell Towers cladding fire and the like.
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #849 on: September 18, 2023, 09:52:08 AM »
Quote from: Fizzie on September 17, 2023, 07:08:38 AM
But

"Australian research firm EV FireSafe – which records electric-car battery fires across the globe – found at least 375 electric vehicle fires were reported globally between 2010 and 30 April 2023, with an additional 87 incidents being investigated or unverified.

NSW Department of Fire and Emergency Services data – reported there were 2942 vehicle fires (including those powered by petrol, diesel or electricity) in New South Wales between July 2020 to June 2021."

Yep, them electric cars is awful dangerous! ::)

Why dont you massage those figures to make them stats meaningful. IE proportion of ev, trucks and cars, what caused the fires, how many ice vehicles just spontaneously self combusted, how many other assets were destroyed in each event etc. I would not like my family any where near an ev when it catches fire particularily if its in a confined space let alone be in one.
Yes those evs have the potential to be awful dangerous.
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