Post by: Pipeliner on August 13, 2010, 11:12:28 AM
A National Road Safety Initiative to consider.
Written by D----- A---
Something has been bugging me for sometime now and I wonder why nobody has ever considered it to maybe reduce the Australian Road Toll. I am a 41 year old simple father of two children with a lovely wife who has held a driver license for 23 years and average 70,000kms a year on Australian roads. I am a Motor Mechanic by trade and have been the owner of many motor cars and motorcycles over the years which may have highlighted the initiative in my mind considering how far we have come in the motoring industry even over the time of my driving history. Everyday on my roads I wonder sometimes just what some people are thinking when I see them driving early morning, late afternoon, in low light conditions and heavy fog without their headlights on. Bear with me and please take the time to think back and ask yourself have you ever had a close call or what if?
Everyday all around Australia there are accidents involving all road users, pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, cars, buses and trucks that can and do result in financial loss, injury and loss of life and I wonder how many of these instances could have a different outcome if it was mandatory for all road users to drive or operate their vehicles with their headlights on every time the key is turned on. I wonder how many times the police have heard “I didn’t see him, her or them” and I wonder how many accidents that involve families like mine that have not survived a trip down an Australian road and have come to a horrific end on a perfectly straight road, I wonder what if they had their headlights on and the oncoming vehicle had it’s headlights on would they have seen one another before having the head on. Take note of just how hard it is to see some cars, bikes etc on the road these days due to their colour and how the blend in to the surroundings, then have you ever had to ask yourself as you peer around the tail of the vehicle your about to overtake “ is it clear up ahead” “is that car coming or going” or yeah I have got plenty of room to overtake only to find that the vehicle is on top of you ever so quickly and you were worried although you wouldn’t admit it to your family. Every night I see the aftermath of a horrific tragedy on the news and wonder if there could have been a different outcome.
I own a Harley Davidson motorcycle that as soon as the ignition is switched on the headlight is also illuminated, it doesn’t even have a headlight switch and for the sole reason of safety to make motorcycles more visible to other road users and to help protect the rider, well why are not car drivers, bus drivers, truck drivers and cyclists not as important to implement the same measures adopted to help protect the operator and other road users to make them as visible as possible whilst driving? Just tonight I saw four vehicles on my way home in the pitch black with one headlight working on the highway and one black Commodore station wagon with absolutely no lights on at all, this is a common occurrence on the roads that I travel. Wouldn’t it be good if the headlights were on all the time during the day so you could be warned that you have one out and not find out about it when you need them the most? I wonder how many times have you seen a vehicle drive down the street without their headlights on due to streets lights and then finally switch them on after they realise just how dark it is when they run out of street lights? I wonder how many times drink drivers have hopped behind the wheel and driven off without their headlights on and have run into an innocent party due to lack of visibility for both parties?
I have worked in the mining industry and noted that any vehicle that drives into a mine site MUST have their headlights on all in the name of Mine Safety yet when we drive out the gate the headlights are off and you are in the rat race with other shift workers who have completed their 12 hr shift in a hurry to get home which has resulted in other road user fatalities. Take a drive between Mackay and Moranbah and take note of all the signs someone has put up on the sides of the road every time a motor vehicle has had an accident along that stretch of road, let me tell you there is well over a hundred signs and the words Fatality send a shiver up your spine. An ever increasing number of drivers on the road these days are turning on their headlights which you will notice especially on long weekends, maybe the travellers feel safer knowing that they are more visible in heavy traffic conditions, but what about just the drive to the shop or going to and from work don’t you think it can happen to you then or don’t you think about it at all. Having your headlights on is not only to protect you it may protect the elderly pedestrian or child that didn’t see your vehicle. If the government was really serious about road safety and agreed to make all vehicle manufactures implement an auto headlight system into all new vehicles coming into our country to meet an amended Australian Standard for the vehicle then the question is why hasn’t it been done a long time ago? The vehicle manufactures are only happy to implement auto wipers, voice activated radio controls, GPS, 6 airbags, reversing sensors, reversing cameras, abs braking, stability control and many more features that are too numerous to list yet we miss the thing that makes us visible to other road users and the thing that really could save you and your families lives from the person who says “I didn’t see him”. We need to start somewhere sometime soon and phase in these measures.
· All new vehicles must have an automatic headlight system that can’t be turned off whilst the vehicle is running.
· All used vehicles must have a simple modification completed as apart of roadworthiness before the vehicle can be purchased.
· All current road registered vehicles regardless of size must have the simple modification completed by a nominated time ( maybe when registration is due)
· All young people just starting out their driver training must be taught about the importance of being visible and how much of an impact it may have on their or other road users lives.
· Ban the use of parking lights only while driving on the road.
Just look at the expense that all the different states throw at Road Safety every year trying to minimise the road toll like speed cameras, more police, advertisements and driver education, why not provide a rebate to all vehicle owners to have this implemented as soon as possible. I wonder if it may help to take a bit of the strain off our hospitals and doctors with the flow on effect.
If these measures could be implemented quickly and Nation wide we would find the transition is quick and my guess very effective in not only making some difference to the road toll but also to the suffering and injury to those who were lucky to survive their ordeal?
Now I know people are going to say that “their vehicles headlights turn on and off with the ignition” just like my Toyota Camry right now but the fact is it only works if the headlight switch is on and that is the weak link and there will always be those who forget or just won’t turn them on. I have purchased a second hand 2006 Toyota Hilux Dual Cab two years ago and discovered that the previous owner had the auto headlight modification installed which means that regardless of the headlight switch the headlights are on about 5 seconds after the vehicle ignition is turned on which I for one am only to happy to have. It is a fool proof system where only the low beam is activated when the vehicle is started and high beam can not be operated until the headlight switch is turned on manually meaning you can’t make the mistake of having your high beam on annoying oncoming traffic. Another vehicle I have is my work supplied 2008 Nissan Navara Dual Cab ute that the manufacturers have gone to the trouble to install a buzzer if the headlights are left on when the ignition is turned off, well why do they bother putting in a buzzer and not just a simple command to turn them off or even better a signal to turn them on when the ignition is in the on position and off when the key is off! It does have one very handy feature in that it has a dial with three positions for lowering the low beam when carrying a heavy load for combating lights shining in oncoming traffics eyes.
When you are out next take a look ahead and note how visible a vehicle is with his lights on and then the difference when one hasn’t and try and tell me how that couldn’t possibly help visibility to other road users. I see people driving with their parkers on, now these are next to useless as you can’t see them until they are nearly upon you. Parking lights are exactly as described Parking lights designed for the side of the road in a parking bay just as the heavy transport do regularly not as an on the road visibility fix and should be banned from use on the road as have fog lights now in Queensland when used when it is not foggy (this to me is wrong as least the vehicle is visible to oncoming traffic. Another point to consider if you use your parkers are that if the sun is behind you the parkers are useless but if you headlights are on they still can be visible. My eye sight is starting to fade and when I cover my right eye I can’t read road signs clearly yet I have just had them tested and was told I am fine and I don’t need glasses and am legally fit to drive in that condition, how bad are others eyes who don’t or won’t get them checked and are driving on the roads I travel?
Let’s think about these seriously for a moment and ask ourselves why?
· Why do trains have headlights on all the time?
· Why do planes have headlights on all the time?
· Why do all police and emergency vehicles have flashing lights?
· Why do all road work crews have flashing lights?
· Why do workers wear high visibility clothing?
There is only one answer and it is TO INCREASE VISIBILTY TO OTHER PARTIES AND TO HELP PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL!
Please tell me why we as road users can pass each other by time and again with two metres to spare at 100km an hr with no headlights on, that’s right 2 metres separation is all that’s between us as you pass by, 2 metres that determines life and death and only 2 metres room for error which is why I think visibility is critical. Critical because with an increasing population we have increasing road usage, critical because we allow foreigners or tourists to drive in our country who may not be as up to speed with our road rules and are used to driving for an example on the other side of the road and in vehicles with all controls opposite to what they are used to and critical to oncoming traffic for the users who breach the two metre invisible barrier that protects us and our families due to distractions from gadgets we commonly now have in our vehicles like phones and GPS’s.
I have had first hand experience of being inside a smashed up car holding the drivers head with his 83 year old mother beside him in the passenger seat whilst waiting for the emergency crews to arrive and know the feeling I had when the paramedics told me I had to wear rubber gloves and left me crouched on the back seat with a steering wheel and air bag beside me whilst they went to work, know the smell of urine and faeces, know the feeling while I held his head and they started to cut the roof off, know the feeling of wondering what my wife was thinking while she sat in our car with our two children for an hour and a half with emergency services all around her wondering where her husband is and know the feeling of attending his funeral straight after Christmas and the effect it had on me and his family even though I only knew him for an hour and a half. Don’t we owe it to our emergency services hero’s who deal with these types of tragedies everyday to try and give them maybe just small helping hand to stay more visible whilst on the road so that we all may just get home to our families safely.
Q. What are vehicle headlights for?
A. To increase visibility for the user whilst driving and to increase visibility of the vehicle for other road users.
Well then why do we turn them off when they just might save a life?
If we all want to be HERE FOR LIFE we need to start thinking of others as well as ourselves and increase visibility for all.
Post by: Redback on August 13, 2010, 11:29:28 AM
It can't hurt, whether it will cut the road toll, I can't say, the thing is I've heard that same line a few times when people have run into me and when your driving a bus or truck (which was the case a few times, you have to wonder where were they looking at the time and how much attention were they paying to driving their vehicle and not to their mobile or their passenger.
Unfortunately all the saftey incentive won't prevent morons having accidents.
Baz.
Post by: toad on August 13, 2010, 11:33:39 AM
I always use headlights outside of the suburbs.
Sunset is getting later these days, but only a couple of weeks ago it was still quite dark around 5.00pm when many people leave work.
My car has auto lights, so mine were on, but some clown in dark grey car without lights persisted in driving in my blind spot. Made it very hard to see him. He did get Bixenon flashed when I slowed down to let him go by.
But then again we have idiots who persist in driving in the dark with sidelights on, thinking their foglights look cool and sophisticated.
Post by: oli on August 13, 2010, 11:46:50 AM
It really annoys me when people flick their lights at me during the day though to tell me my lights are on...
Post by: ddr on August 13, 2010, 11:47:54 AM
JMEYMMV
Post by: Symon on August 13, 2010, 11:58:11 AM
Post by: blackstump on August 13, 2010, 12:10:54 PM
And adding to this, how many people turn on their head lights for on coming traffic, on a two lane road, when they know that the oncoming traffic has the sun in their eyes.
sun glare is a killer, but if you can see headlights coming towards you through the glare, and the tail lights of the person in front of you, it makes driving in these conditions a lot easier.
These are the sort of things that should be taught to new drivers.
:cheers:
Post by: gronk on August 13, 2010, 12:11:19 PM
And I'd hate to have a dirty , bleeding bloke in the nice clean 4x4 enroute to hospital!! ;D
Post by: Redback on August 13, 2010, 12:35:08 PM
Always have either the fog or normal lights on when driving around the forest....that split second maybe all it takes for the dirt bike riders not to be an ornament on the front of the bull bar !!
And I'd hate to have a dirty , bleeding bloke in the nice clean 4x4 enroute to hospital!! ;D
Been there, had to cart a bloke from Binacrombe to Goulburn with a compound fracture of the leg (quad bike accident) took me months to get the blood out :-[ luckly it was only a Hilux ;D
Baz.
Post by: coxy1954 on August 13, 2010, 01:16:50 PM
Safe Travels Dave
Post by: nargun on August 13, 2010, 01:27:48 PM
At night you can tell quickly whether your lights are on high beam or not (and how many stuff this up any way?). During the day you still have the capacity to dazzle oncoming drivers. The instrument lights on most cars dim when lights are turned on, some cars can be overridden, others can’t. Back lit LCD instruments can be hard to read in bright sunshine and be impossible during the day when dimmed due to lights being on.
If you need their lights on during the day to see another car you shouldn’t be driving and if you believe that if you have your lights on someone will see you you’re probably not sufficiently paranoid to be on the road (I was taught to drive on the premise that my driving skills were only as good as the worst driver in a 100 metre radius).
I do put my lights on at the first hint of poor visibility, and will put them on earlier if I’m travelling east before dusk.
In Scandinavian countries, it is compulsory to drive with side lights on during the day (a la Volvos and Saabs) and this makes sense in countries where daylight hours in winter are only a couple of hours long. A couple of decades ago in NSW there was a “Lights on for safety” campaign. There should be sufficient statistical evidence arising from that and from Sweden and Finland to tell whether this works or not. Let’s get the evidence before enacting more legislation
Post by: Fivid on August 13, 2010, 01:33:31 PM
I'm not one for posting links to Utube, etc very often but this was posted on our 4wd club site yesterday and in line with the road safety theme of this thread I think it is appropriate. A bit graphic but I think a must see for every driver, specially L or P plate drivers who may not have been on the road long enough to have seen or come across accidents like this in real life...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-az1smQMWHYk/unsafe_driving/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-az1smQMWHYk/unsafe_driving/)
It goes for a few minutes and I think that is the beauty of this, instead of a quick 15 second thing you see on TV, this really rubs it in...
Post by: Bird on August 13, 2010, 01:51:49 PM
It's a great idea and very well written it's something that I have been doing for many years, a carry over from riding motorcycles and in theroy you would think it would cut the road toll.I agree. I always used my lights.
But on Aus.Motorcycles its seen as a bad thing to use your headlights on a bike during the day. Something about being complacent and making cars rely on lights.. WTF? Then agian 2x 100watt globes didnt save me from sausage slurper that wiped me out...
Aus.motorcyclians arent all from Tasmania and Bundeena, but must be close to...
Post by: Paul and Bern on August 13, 2010, 02:32:54 PM
Funnily enough it wasn't that many years ago in Queensland that someone (I think Q transport) ran an intensive
"Light Up and Live" campaign, which actually seemed to work. Mmmm ...just don't use high beam and driving lights.
I thought the RACQ was going to try and get it running again.
Post by: hutchie62 on August 13, 2010, 02:48:57 PM
Post by: BigJules on August 13, 2010, 05:10:12 PM
I disagree that if everyone used their lights it would disadvantage motorcyclists.
Post by: Brett B on August 13, 2010, 05:16:21 PM
Post by: Alloy C/T on August 13, 2010, 05:43:05 PM
Post by: BigJules on August 13, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
Lights on all the time solves the "didnt see" problem and increase safety ? Think not , people will just become indifferent , bit like if it became law for everyone to wear safety fluro shirts ALL the time everywhere , after awhile Who is standing out?
I normally wouldn't criticise a post, but seriously...
Certain colours are simply more visible than others. And lights stand out. It's not like we're all standing next to each other.
Post by: albany_nomads on August 13, 2010, 06:47:40 PM
As for flat batteries..I cant believe how much some folks on this site will pay for their CT and Tow vehicles so less than $100.00 to get a warning chime wired if you don't have one fitted is pittance..just basic vehicle improvements
I work for a state Government Agency here in the West and it COMPULSORY ..that's right COMPULSORY as part of our OSH policy for us to turn on out headlights to low beam during the day..Simply headlights on save lives..also as a motorcyclist I wouldn't drive on the road..especially in the suburbs without my headlight on
Post by: Bird on August 14, 2010, 12:21:04 PM
I normally wouldn't criticise a post, but seriously...I think what he is saying is Yes they are more visible, but over time people tend not to notice them as easily. It does happen daily in warehouses, and factories.
Certain colours are simply more visible than others. And lights stand out. It's not like we're all standing next to each other.
Post by: austastar on August 14, 2010, 03:49:44 PM
the BIG problem with any compulsion is the legal ramifications of some one saying the lights were not on so I didn't see him.
I fought this vigorously as a motorcyclist back in the 1970s, and managed to get the regulation that some bureaucrat had sneaked on to the books repealed retrospectively and deemed not to have been enacted. (Tasmania)
I am not against voluntary usage of headlights in appropriate conditions.
Yes I know Volvo had always on running lights in the 70s, not so now. Yes I know some of the bus lines ran with lights on at about the same time and indeed Vic Rail ran headlights on their locos, it did nothing that was statistically significant to their figures - i.e. the benefit could not be measured.
I would not oppose LED or similar conspicuity lights built into new cars/bikes/trucks/planes/ships/subs etc if they were fail-safe and had multiple redundancy. I would first have to be shown valid statistical evidence that the benefits were measurable though, and when you remove all the single vehicle, OR non daylight hours collisions from the mixture, you are now working with a much smaller data set, and the benefits have to be that much greater to generate any statistical significance to the total data set.
cheers
Post by: camdyson on August 14, 2010, 09:11:58 PM
Personally I use my car/motorcycle lights alot more than most - being an optometrist it scares me to see how bad some drivers' vision is (like the old duck who came in after parking her little red Volksy in the pedestrian mall right outside the clinic, turned out she was legally blind and still driving....) Rest assured, there are alot of people with VERY poor eyesight still driving, certainly in Victoria with no regular testing, so do whatever it takes to be seen.
Safe driving,
Cam
Post by: SUPA105 on August 15, 2010, 07:24:53 PM
All our new work vehicles now supplied have additional day time LED running lights that come on with the ignition......
Cheers
Chris
Post by: Jukebox on August 15, 2010, 07:56:00 PM
Also its been proved (I think I read it somewhere) and I agree just in my mind that it is harder to judge the speed of a vehicle when the lights are on.
I'd leave at if you wish to turn them on do so. if not leave them off.
Lights wont make a safer driver out of an idiot.
Just my 2 cents worth. :D
Jukebox
Landrover Disco 1 TDI
Finch 05 OB
Post by: Bill on August 15, 2010, 08:10:08 PM
And we always have them on when we travel as a group...
Bill and Morag
Post by: Silvo on August 15, 2010, 08:27:00 PM
It goes for a few minutes and I think that is the beauty of this, instead of a quick 15 second thing you see on TV, this really rubs it in...
yeah, but 15 seconds in you can close the advert down.. 15 seconds on a tv commericial is almost over before you've decided to change the channel.
i love the feature of the toyota to leave my lights on and they turn off when i get out of the car. great stuff. i never turn them off.
Post by: whitey1 on August 15, 2010, 10:09:56 PM
Post by: SteveandViv on August 16, 2010, 12:03:11 AM
I don't want my lights on when I am trying to out as much charge into my Batts while out camping or on a remote road. I want an override so I can idle the car while camping with out the light blazing. I want all states to test lights at Rego time so I don't have to put up with halfwitts that don't think to check their lights and height and blind people - even in the day. They must also have high beam alarms fitted and the same for their 3000 watt spotties.
like I said, it's a good idea but not thought out.
Post by: Dave61 on August 16, 2010, 12:29:32 AM
I read somewhere not so long ago that silver was the most popular colour.
Try picking out a silver grey car about a kilometre away coming towards you.
To pass a truck or even someone with a van or CT, you need to see a long way in front, and if you can see some headlights coming towards you, it's an easy decision to make to wait until that vehicle has passed.
Fatigue has got a lot to do with road accidents on country roads, and some headlights coming towards you has got more chance of catching your attention than a vehicle with no lights on.
If you run with your headlights on you have more chance of being seen, and hopefully the driver coming towards you has got his eye on you and not drifting into and out of la-la land.
Dave
Post by: BigBlock1DT6 on August 16, 2010, 04:37:56 AM
on in daylight hours
I'm sure as i am typing this they were Mains Road Signs
or was i the only one to ever of seen them
i know i have a photo here somewhere of the sign around Glenbrook, NSW
In Poor visibility the laws in every State say they should be on
yet so many still drive without doing this, whether on their way home from work or going to work (dawn and Dusk)
and even in heavy rain, and storms
A heat wave on the horizon of any outback road can be classed as Poor visibility
hard to spot a car when the air just above the road is wriggling around :-[
Sun in your eye's ?
if i was driving along any road knowing that the car or truck coming towards me at 100kmh that the sun is in their
eyes, i would be more than happy to turn my lights on to give them more of a safe indication from a distance that I'm coming
at towards them too (AWARENESS)
Here's a questioned how many people out there drive around with just the "Parking" lights on
Especially under Poor visibility Conditions
yep quite a few, thousands and thousands do it >:D
I know that anyone can be hidden by the shadows forming behind them on the roads
and lights would help to see them sooner rather then when its to late
Post by: Jonas on August 16, 2010, 07:12:08 AM
From memory it wasn't a big thing: cheap and easy to install.
Headlights on will certainly not prevent all accidents, but statistics show that it will diminish the number of accidents.
Sometimes it seems that Australia is running 20 years behind on basic issues that has been common for many years in Europe ???
And since we are talking about road safety:
What is going on with the safety distance between cars in this lovely country???
10 meters between cars when doing 100 km/h (or 80 for that matter) is not safe AT ALL.
And when you are trying to keep a safe distance to the car in front of you other motorist will think: Ahhh, here is an open spot on the congested road I'll fit in here.... >:(
But I also think there is a problem with the way you can get a license here.
You can pick up all the bad habits of your parents / family/ friends whereas I think it would be much safer if everyone would have to take lessons with a driving instructor.
When I took my license 14 years ago you had to have a minimum of 14 hours with a driving instructor. Now I think it's 28 hours.
So, YES, it is VERY EXPENSIVE to get a drivers license in DK, but I do believe it is much safer to be on the road in DK than here.
And since I am complaining I might as well continue ;D
When the media reports an accident, in most cases they blame the road or possibly the weather. WHAT ABOUT THE DRIVER??? What about driving to the condition and keeping a safe brake distance to the car in front of you.
I remember a year or 2 ago when they were building the tunnel under the brisbane river: 3 am in the morning, a truckdriver was in the inner lane, and forgot his turn off to the work site, so when he realised he braked very hard to get into the worksite.
Despite having an empty highway a passengercar chose to be a few meters behind the truck and obviously he never had time to react when the truck driver hit the brake pedal hard... Can't remember if he died, but it would have been an accident easily avoided...
I think I am on a roll here: TRUCK ROLL OVERS... WTF ??? ??? ???
Never heard of such things before coming to Australia.
At home they are only allowed to do 80 km on the highways close to urban areas. In peak traffic hours they are only allowed to be in the inner lane so they wont block the traffic.
Another safety issue: We all spend many $$$ modifying our 4wd's to make them better offroad and great for camping. Yet I see some that wont spend money on a cargo barrier despite it might very well one day safe the lives of the family ???
So anyway. If things are to improve I think you need government regulations: ie. headlight on all the time. I am not sure about the tailgating issue as it seems 99.9 % of Brisbane populations is doing it and I think it would be a hard habit to change around.
And just to finish off on a positive note: I love living in Australia and you have a wonderful country with fantastic nature and great people.
Cheers,
Jonas
Post by: Redback on August 16, 2010, 08:14:10 AM
I am from Denmark in the northern part of Europe ( living in Brisbane for now) and I think that for last 20 years all new cars have an automatic headlights-on system. If you had an old car that did not have the automatic system you would have to install it.
From memory it wasn't a big thing: cheap and easy to install.
Headlights on will certainly not prevent all accidents, but statistics show that it will diminish the number of accidents.
Sometimes it seems that Australia is running 20 years behind on basic issues that has been common for many years in Europe ???
And since we are talking about road safety:
What is going on with the safety distance between cars in this lovely country???
10 meters between cars when doing 100 km/h (or 80 for that matter) is not safe AT ALL.
And when you are trying to keep a safe distance to the car in front of you other motorist will think: Ahhh, here is an open spot on the congested road I'll fit in here.... >:(
But I also think there is a problem with the way you can get a license here.
You can pick up all the bad habits of your parents / family/ friends whereas I think it would be much safer if everyone would have to take lessons with a driving instructor.
When I took my license 14 years ago you had to have a minimum of 14 hours with a driving instructor. Now I think it's 28 hours.
So, YES, it is VERY EXPENSIVE to get a drivers license in DK, but I do believe it is much safer to be on the road in DK than here.
And since I am complaining I might as well continue ;D
When the media reports an accident, in most cases they blame the road or possibly the weather. WHAT ABOUT THE DRIVER??? What about driving to the condition and keeping a safe brake distance to the car in front of you.
I remember a year or 2 ago when they were building the tunnel under the brisbane river: 3 am in the morning, a truckdriver was in the inner lane, and forgot his turn off to the work site, so when he realised he braked very hard to get into the worksite.
Despite having an empty highway a passengercar chose to be a few meters behind the truck and obviously he never had time to react when the truck driver hit the brake pedal hard... Can't remember if he died, but it would have been an accident easily avoided...
I think I am on a roll here: TRUCK ROLL OVERS... WTF ??? ??? ???
Never heard of such things before coming to Australia.
At home they are only allowed to do 80 km on the highways close to urban areas. In peak traffic hours they are only allowed to be in the inner lane so they wont block the traffic.
Another safety issue: We all spend many $$$ modifying our 4wd's to make them better offroad and great for camping. Yet I see some that wont spend money on a cargo barrier despite it might very well one day safe the lives of the family ???
So anyway. If things are to improve I think you need government regulations: ie. headlight on all the time. I am not sure about the tailgating issue as it seems 99.9 % of Brisbane populations is doing it and I think it would be a hard habit to change around.
And just to finish off on a positive note: I love living in Australia and you have a wonderful country with fantastic nature and great people.
Cheers,
Jonas
My experience with Europe is pretty much the same, I felt much safer riding around, cars move over to let you go by if your going faster, for the most part they keep right on motorways.
As for trucks, there are a lot of cowboys out there, that try to intimidate other road users >:D
Post by: Bird on August 16, 2010, 11:28:17 AM
... and if you can see some headlights coming towards you, it's an easy decision to make to wait until that vehicle has passed.Just on that, why dont people put their lights on in bad weather anymore??? Nobody seems to. Bucketing down rain in the middle of the day, things are getting dark with cloud, its just as hard to see as midnight, but still they are too dumb to realise...
Is driver education that bad these days?
Post by: whitey1 on August 17, 2010, 08:53:14 AM
Just on that, why dont people put their lights on in bad weather anymore??? Nobody seems to. Bucketing down rain in the middle of the day, things are getting dark with cloud, its just as hard to see as midnight, but still they are too dumb to realise...I think common sense is just not so common anymore! ???
Is driver education that bad these days?
Post by: Benduro on August 17, 2010, 11:47:33 AM
I never turn the lights off in my Cruiser. I appreciate that they just turn of when I take the key out and open the door, no bloody chimes. This only catches me out when someone else drives it, and turns the lights off. I don't think to turn them on again.
My old Subaru Forester and perhaps even the L Series were the same from memory... Just always left them on.
Seems such a simple fix for a big problem. :cheers:
Post by: Diksta on November 19, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
just because you can see where you are going doesn't mean people can see you.
cheers
Diksta
Post by: Roaring Chicken on November 20, 2010, 06:21:54 AM
Having said all that, there are studies that show permanent low beam on may not increase safety however, daytime running lights (DRL) which are a contrasting colour light similar to an indicator or fog light colour does increase visibility and reduce multi vehicle crashes.
Cheers
Shane
Post by: Pete the Pirate on November 20, 2010, 01:32:41 PM
Just on that, why dont people put their lights on in bad weather anymore??? Nobody seems to. Bucketing down rain in the middle of the day, things are getting dark with cloud, its just as hard to see as midnight, but still they are too dumb to realise...
Is driver education that bad these days?
I have a theory on that Lost.........I reckon people are too worried about getting an excessive electricity bill ;D or alternatively wearing out their battery prematurely :D
Post by: LJs GU on November 20, 2010, 01:46:47 PM
or alternatively wearing out their battery prematurely :D
Maybe they need a DC-DC charger...
hehehe
LJ ;D
Post by: Malcur on November 20, 2010, 05:09:38 PM
Mal
Post by: austastar on November 20, 2010, 09:41:39 PM
I think that the advent of the LED lights will render the daylight use of headlamps redundant. LED running lamps will draw less current, and have a better beam shape and spread being designed to be seen - not to see by.
I noticed some cars seem to have a LED ring light around the headlamp.
Any body know if that is a daylight running lamp?
cheers
Post by: theflyingbadger on November 20, 2010, 09:44:49 PM
after working on mine sites it has become habit for e to turn mine on, and as with big Jules the cruiser satys on all the time.
are the mine ones not all hard-wired on these days? I did the 2 day occupational 4wd course this week (mainly Rio and BHP staff) and it was implied that all light vehicles would be wired so the lights were always on..
I remember back when i was a small pom, that volvos always had their lights on with the ignition - but the oz ones don't seem to?
As for leaving the lights on, somewhat irritatingly the ones in my Patrol stay on when i take the key out - my santa fe used to switch the lights off when you took the key out. If you explicitly wanted to leave them on without the key then you could switch them off then on again with the key out. much more sensible.
Post by: shanegtr on November 21, 2010, 01:41:38 AM
Sometimes it seems that Australia is running 20 years behind on basic issues that has been common for many years in Europe ???
Tell me about it, child restraint is a prime example >:( We cant even use isofix (not that I have a car suitable for it) legally here. But if it was made legal Im sure my wife would be out buying a new car just for it. ;D
Post by: tropicbird54 on November 21, 2010, 10:33:53 AM
We have always used our lights when visibilty hasn't been too flash - heavily overcast, rainy, dusk, etc. but not all the time when conditions are normal.
Have to admit how much easier it is to see an oncoming vehicle with lights on than one without.
Time to rethink how we drive me thinks.
Thanks
Safe travelling everyone.
Post by: chunk on November 21, 2010, 11:29:35 AM
Post by: Yoda42 on November 21, 2010, 04:57:23 PM
Post by: cewilson on November 21, 2010, 10:24:01 PM
4trust me ( an NT fire fighter ) its no fun scrapping people up off the road or having to cut a family out of a crushed can that use to be a car!
No it's not - I've spent 15 years doing it.....
And I run lights pretty much all of the time as well, as does the wife. If unfortunately I'm ever involved in an accident - they'd never want to use the excuse they didn't see me. A white Defender (or white Prado for the wife) with headlights on 'should' be easily seen.
As for driver training etc - I think the training is alright. But no-one is accountable now days until we end up going out under lights and sirens hoping that it won't cause more nightmares. I've seen police drive straight past vehicles with no headlights on in heavy fog - but they'll pin some poor bugger doing 3km/h over the speed limit.
Sorry I'm ranting - it's a very passionate subject of mine as I see the results personally when things go wrong. And surprisingly they're all not caused by speeding - actually most of them aren't.
Post by: BigJules on November 22, 2010, 03:57:59 PM
I have been considering thus attitude since my first post in this thread a couple of months ago, as I drive. There is no doubt in my mind that vehicles with their lights on are more visible than those whose lights are off; even in peak hour traffic.
I stated before that I never turn mine off, not even when hoping for a good charge between camps.
I reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer designs a car, giving every one a bauble on the aerial "so you can find it in the carpark". OK, so the car was lost in the myriad of like cars, but the point here is that every vehicle was visible, not just one.
Post by: camdyson on November 28, 2010, 07:14:28 PM
The question is simply:
"When Ethel pulls up at the intersection, is she more likely to notice my Prado with lights on, or off?"
Let me assure you that between her droopy lids, cataracts and macular degeneration, the more photons you can chuck at her the less likely she won't see you!
Lights on still gets my vote.. ;D
Cam
Post by: kiva on November 28, 2010, 08:28:23 PM
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-az1smQMWHYk/unsafe_driving/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-az1smQMWHYk/unsafe_driving/)
Watching that video is heart breaking. Maybe if everyone realised how easily an accident can occur, the roads would be safer.
As for headlights, ours stay permanently on when driving. I think its better to be seen.
Post by: Bird on May 21, 2021, 12:44:27 PM
Post by: manchu on May 21, 2021, 01:53:21 PM
is it cause many cars have a setting of "auto" on and people just assume?
The only problem with my auto lights is when I use the mrs car I forget to turn the manual headlights on. It has really bright DRLs, which is good I guess, but probably why I don't quickly realise the headlights aren't on.
My biggest light gripe these days is auto high beams. Around the dark windy roads near my place I'm constantly being blinded by cars that come around a corner with their high beams on for a second or 2 before dipping.
I'm not sure but I reckon the auto dipping doesn't work until it actually sees the oncoming headlights , whereas a person will see the environment around being lit up, realise there's a car around the bend and dip earlier. Or they wouldn't be using high beams at all, because they're really not much benefit on the roads in question, IMO.
Post by: Bird on May 21, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
Quote from: manchu
My biggest light gripe these days is auto high beams.Never knew there was such a Shit idea out there LOL
Do we really need all these "Auto" things to successfully drive a car?? Auto high beam? WTF?
Like auto park assist? if you cant park a car, hand your license in.
Post by: manchu on May 21, 2021, 04:25:46 PM
Never knew there was such a Shit idea out there LOL
Do we really need all these "Auto" things to successfully drive a car?? Auto high beam? WTF?
Like auto park assist? if you cant park a car, hand your license in.
There sure is. https://www.toyota.com.au/toyota-safety-sense/automatic-high-beam
No we don't need all the features, but you're going to get them regardless sooner or later because a lot of new car buyers seem to think they're a must have so manufacturers will keep adding to more and more cars.
The one that I just don't understand the fuss over is adaptive cruise control. If I set my cruise I want it to stay on the speed I set, not adjust to the guy in front doing 2kmh less. I'm perfectly capable of reducing the speed myself, or preferably changing lanes to overtake if its clear.
Post by: Bird on May 21, 2021, 04:36:08 PM
There sure is. https://www.toyota.com.au/toyota-safety-sense/automatic-high-beamThese people would blow their brains out jumping into an EH or XY....
No we don't need all the features, but you're going to get them regardless sooner or later because a lot of new car buyers seem to think they're a must have so manufacturers will keep adding to more and more cars.
The one that I just don't understand the fuss over is adaptive cruise control. If I set my cruise I want it to stay on the speed I set, not adjust to the guy in front doing 2kmh less. I'm perfectly capable of reducing the speed myself, or preferably changing lanes to overtake if its clear.
Post by: #jonesy on May 21, 2021, 05:32:03 PM
BMW will dip the portion of the light that will hit the oncoming car. The left side of the road is still high beam, the opposite direction section is low beam and the trees to the right are in high beam until the car gets closer. It's weird to get used to and at first feels like there are a couple of little men hiding under the bonnet with search lights.
Post by: GeoffA on May 21, 2021, 05:38:58 PM
These people would blow their brains out jumping into an EH or XY....
Bring back the floor mounted dipper switch....
Post by: bmwfreak on May 21, 2021, 09:19:25 PM
Lights on are great, if you are dealing with drivers with half a brain!!!!
Post by: Spada on May 22, 2021, 07:48:12 AM
Auto high beam is more complex than the Toyota link.
BMW will dip the portion of the light that will hit the oncoming car. The left side of the road is still high beam, the opposite direction section is low beam and the trees to the right are in high beam until the car gets closer. It's weird to get used to and at first feels like there are a couple of little men hiding under the bonnet with search lights.
Same same for Mrs Spada's Mazda, but they are quite sensitive to ambient light. Street lights and reflection from some road signs are enough for it to dip, and when it senses oncoming light it dips the drivers side only at first and angles the passengers highbeam off to the left a bit until it detects enough light to dip them both. I was skeptical of all the fancy "aids" at first, but have grown to really like them. I'm particularly fond of the way it angles the lights towards the direct of a turn. As for the adaptive cruise, I recon it's pretty cool. Come up behind a slower car and it just matches it's speed until you either change lanes or deliberately accelerate and overtake. Soon as you've taken your foot off the go pedal and it's clear ahead and, it just goes straight back to the speed it was set on. I get the whole "good old days" argument of needing to be in control of every little thing, but surely having to do less in the cockpit so you can focus more on the surroundings is a good thing? And yes, I remember having a floor dipper, but I also remember the Lucas lights high beam in those days had two settings. Off, and might as well be.
Post by: plusnq on May 22, 2021, 08:14:14 AM
And yes, I remember having a floor dipper, but I also remember the Lucas lights high beam in those days had two settings. Off, and might as well be.
Lucas the Prince of Darkness 😂😂😂😂
Post by: Rodt on May 24, 2021, 02:42:40 PM
As for the adaptive cruise, I recon it's pretty cool. Come up behind a slower car and it just matches it's speed until you either change lanes or deliberately accelerate and overtake. Soon as you've taken your foot off the go pedal and it's clear ahead and, it just goes straight back to the speed it was set on.
I was speaking to a bloke a few months ago who reckoned that it was dangerous in drizzly rain conditions. When I asked why he said it kept activating when there was actually no traffic in front of him at all
Don't know if it is still that the technology needs some refinement or not
Post by: corndog on May 24, 2021, 03:54:13 PM
Post by: Fizzie on May 24, 2021, 04:15:52 PM
it was dangerous in drizzly rain conditions. When I asked why he said it kept activating when there was actually no traffic in front of him at all
Don't know if it is still that the technology needs some refinement or not
If its raining and your doing 5 or 10 klms faster than what you think is safe
I wonder if, just possibly, it's doing what it's (secretly) designed to by slowing you down when it's raining ???
Post by: Rodt on May 24, 2021, 04:21:54 PM
Slight drizzle should be no drama driving to the speed limit. I reckon the biggest issue for him was the fact that he wasn't expecting it to occur so it startled him
Post by: doc evil on May 25, 2021, 03:35:58 PM
Then, as their brain cells have deteriorated, are blaming the aids for their cockups..........
Partial dipping headlights............WTF, dip the FN things properly.......
Adaptive cruise.........again WTF, lift ya foot off the accelerator.........
Lane control............another WTF, concentrate on what you are doing and how you are driving.......
Are any of these (and others) really "safety" aids? I don't believe so as they are taking the cognitive function of operating a motor vehicle away from the driver and thus the driver relies on these "aids" to drive for them.............really, are we becoming that lazy?
Post by: Bird on May 25, 2021, 03:52:38 PM
All these "aids" are doing is creating a society of nonthinking idiots who rely on the aids instead of "driving".add reverse park assist....
Then, as their brain cells have deteriorated, are blaming the aids for their cockups..........
Partial dipping headlights............WTF, dip the FN things properly.......
Adaptive cruise.........again WTF, lift ya foot off the accelerator.........
Lane control............another WTF, concentrate on what you are doing and how you are driving.......
Are any of these (and others) really "safety" aids? I don't believe so as they are taking the cognitive function of operating a motor vehicle away from the driver and thus the driver relies on these "aids" to drive for them.............really, are we becoming that lazy?
what happens when these things all fail ??? Would be comedy capers.
(http://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/0517a0ec462b8f781135b20f6c8ca0f930073a-wm.jpg?v=3)
Post by: Fizzie on May 26, 2021, 08:08:27 AM
really, are we becoming that lazy?
In a word - Yes! ::) :'( >:(
Add in auto headlights so you don't have to think it's getting dark, & auto windscreen wipers so you don't have to think that you can't see where you're going.
what happens when these things all fail ??? Would be comedy capers.
Read a letter to the Editor in the RACQ mag "several" years ago. Not exact wording, but along the lines of:
"Our daughter learnt to drive in our BMW M3, equipped with all the bells & whistles & passed her test fine. A little while later, she was out with her cousin, driving his "old" Torana {his words, but didn't specify what it was?}, when somebody didn't stop at a roundabout. She slammed on the brakes, which immediately locked up, she lost all steering, & the car skidded straight into the other vehicle"
He went on to say that kids should learn to drive without any assistance, so they don't rely on it.
Post by: manchu on May 26, 2021, 04:39:00 PM
He went on to say that kids should learn to drive without any assistance, so they don't rely on it.
Or there should be specific license for 'full assist vehicles' only like there is for auto trans.
Post by: Hairs on June 05, 2021, 05:14:15 PM
I traveled from the Lawrence Ferry(Woodford Island Rd) to Maclean, typical for this time of year to have fog that heavy off you can't see 40 odd meter in front of you.
The five vehicles in front of me Did Not have their lights on, many vehicles that were traveling the other way didn't either.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210605/7dcca302e4fb98f3403eb9ee725bcc30.jpg)
Post by: Troopy_03 on June 05, 2021, 06:30:00 PM
Last Thursday,
I traveled from the Lawrence Ferry(Woodford Island Rd) to Maclean, typical for this time of year to have fog that heavy off you can't see 40 odd meter in front of you.
The five vehicles in front of me Did Not have their lights on, many vehicles that were traveling the other way didn't either.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210605/7dcca302e4fb98f3403eb9ee725bcc30.jpg)
Use ya windscreen wipers mate. A lot of that is on the screen..
Post by: Hairs on June 05, 2021, 06:49:37 PM
Use ya windscreen wipers mate. A lot of that is on the screen..
No it's not.
It looks like it is, but it's not, just drove under trees, few drops.
But you don't know that?
Beside, dirty windscreen or not, these dickheads don't have their lights on, but that's cool, just like dickheads don't need to use their blinks, cause they know where they're going ;)
But hey, chip me :)
Post by: Troopy_03 on June 06, 2021, 10:37:36 AM
No it's not.
It looks like it is, but it's not, just drove under trees, few drops.
But you don't know that?
Beside, dirty windscreen or not, these dickheads don't have their lights on, but that's cool, just like dickheads don't need to use their blinks, cause they know where they're going ;)
But hey, chip me :)
Lights on or not, the part marked shows your screen is pretty hard to see through. Certainly much safer when you can see through your windscreen. >:D
Post by: Hairs on June 06, 2021, 10:45:18 AM
But, hey.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/597c8bf7d5c4d52dbfff86f8d341d732.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/a45faef6c135b7105f5f3a2e35a46120.jpg)
Post by: Troopy_03 on June 06, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
Man, you'll just have to believe me, seeing through my windscreen was fine, driving into the sun, the camera is mounted at the top of the windscreen where the wipers don't cross in front of the rear vision mirror.
But, hey.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/597c8bf7d5c4d52dbfff86f8d341d732.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/a45faef6c135b7105f5f3a2e35a46120.jpg)
Yep, good point. The cam only shows through the top part of the screen, which may be obscured while the rest of the screen is clear.. I get ya.. But did you have your lights on? .... kiddin...
Post by: Hairs on June 06, 2021, 05:15:46 PM
Yep, good point. The cam only shows through the top part of the screen, which may be obscured while the rest of the screen is clear.. I get ya.. But did you have your lights on? .... kiddin...Hahaha, I always do, which I forget to turn off when I get to Maclean, resulting in a Blat Fattery :).
Usually get a phone call from a good Samaritan to let me know.
:)
PS,
Sorry to scare everyone with the head in the mirror :)
Post by: Kangaron on June 06, 2021, 05:42:32 PM
All these "aids" are doing is creating a society of nonthinking idiots who rely on the aids instead of "driving".
Then, as their brain cells have deteriorated, are blaming the aids for their cockups..........
Partial dipping headlights............WTF, dip the FN things properly.......
Adaptive cruise.........again WTF, lift ya foot off the accelerator.........
Lane control............another WTF, concentrate on what you are doing and how you are driving.......
Are any of these (and others) really "safety" aids? I don't believe so as they are taking the cognitive function of operating a motor vehicle away from the driver and thus the driver relies on these "aids" to drive for them.............really, are we becoming that lazy?
I have had a Ford Wildtrack for about 12 months, and love all the assists.
Only the other day was at the golf club with 8 mates, and with 2 shouts of schooners to finish the
night used my Ford App to start the car from the bar.
Not that I needed the cabin warm but wanted to chill the console for my travelers.
So cruising on the way home using adaptive cruise control [useless with kangaroos] and lane assist
when I hit a very long left-hand curve, it just kept on coming, and so did a convoy of
B Doubles towards me.
Lane assist is awesome as I was on the phone with my SP with my right hand, and opening a twist top
with my left, so steering with my left knee.
As the curve went on and on, I had to continually adjust, so left the knee go, car corrected to the left and I could get another "bite" on the steering wheel with my knee. Easy.
After dodging a few roos the parking sensors came into their own.
Was backing down the drive when they went off, a quick glance in the reverse camera and a group of kids
were checking my progress, so I knew straight away I was in the wrong house. How cool.
Anyway, finally got home to a freezing night.
The remaining traveller was still cold enough to get the morning paper.
Post by: Marcus73 on June 06, 2021, 06:23:28 PM
I have had a Ford Wildtrack for about 12 months, and love all the assists.
Only the other day was at the golf club with 8 mates, and with 2 shouts of schooners to finish the
night used my Ford App to start the car from the bar.
Not that I needed the cabin warm but wanted to chill the console for my travelers.
So cruising on the way home using adaptive cruise control [useless with kangaroos] and lane assist
when I hit a very long left-hand curve, it just kept on coming, and so did a convoy of
B Doubles towards me.
Lane assist is awesome as I was on the phone with my SP with my right hand, and opening a twist top
with my left, so steering with my left knee.
As the curve went on and on, I had to continually adjust, so left the knee go, car corrected to the left and I could get another "bite" on the steering wheel with my knee. Easy.
After dodging a few roos the parking sensors came into their own.
Was backing down the drive when they went off, a quick glance in the reverse camera and a group of kids
were checking my progress, so I knew straight away I was in the wrong house. How cool.
Anyway, finally got home to a freezing night.
The remaining traveller was still cold enough to get the morning paper.
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