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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 05:55:21 AM

Title: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 05:55:21 AM
Hi all, Just wading if there is a specific rule on towing mirrors for trailers and vans, as I got done on the NT and QLD border, $100 fine, as my mirrors did not stick out far enough in the policeman's view, Craig
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: KathyL on October 03, 2019, 06:19:58 AM
Here's a link to an article explaining the requirements: http://mag.rvdaily.com.au/rvd/issue011/#27
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: KathyL on October 03, 2019, 06:21:58 AM
Quote
A simple test would be to attach your trailer to your tow vehicle and stand directly behind each of the rearmost corners of the trailer at a distance of about 20m from your side rear-view mirrors. If you can see each mirror in its entirety, then you are likely to be compliant. If the mirrors are partially obscured or completely hidden behind the trailer, then you must install extension mirrors.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 06:39:42 AM
Thanks KathyL, I should of said it cost $100 for the fine and $70 for new clip on mirrors,
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: gronk on October 03, 2019, 06:45:34 AM
You need to be able to see both rear corners of your van....easiest way is to stick something poking out say 10mm at each side and look.
If you can do this, it's legal. If it's legal, don't pay the fine.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 07:06:48 AM
I am Guilty, As my mirrors do not stick out that fair, but I like them like that, I have never had any troubles, but the rules are rules
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: weeds on October 03, 2019, 07:34:34 AM
I never worried about fitting wider mirrors when I had a van.....although knew I could be booked. There is enough bends in the road to keep an eye on what’s behind.

I recently got a warning for having solar shades fitted to the cargo area windows, police said I needed to be to see through the back window using the inside mirror. I pointed out the car is fitted to two external mirrors and mentioned just about every touring 4WD or tradie Ute or van cannot see thought their rear mirror.

In the end I removed them to save getting a fine on the spot, what the policemen didn’t notice was that I have removed the internal mirror


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Fizzie on October 03, 2019, 07:57:27 AM
I saw something just this week (but can't find it again now :-[) that said open your driver's & passenger windows, measure the distance between the outside edges of the external mirrors, then measure the maximum width of your CT / van. If your existing mirrors are wider than the van, you don't need towing mirrors - if the van is wider than the mirrors, you do!
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 08:02:52 AM
Same with me Weeds done hundreds of thousands on ks towing boats and trailers never had a trouble having to have wider mirrors, The NT government were just razing money, if it was not the mirrors it would of been something else, but maybe not as everything else was spot on, 
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: edz on October 03, 2019, 09:08:43 PM
With the old Jayco folded down Craig,  you would basicaly be able to see over the top of it from the 80 wouldnt you ?.    Isnt yours  an onroad Jayco with small wheels ? .
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: gronk on October 03, 2019, 09:32:11 PM
I am Guilty, As my mirrors do not stick out that fair, but I like them like that, I have never had any troubles, but the rules are rules

Ha ha....I usually speed all the time......but I can't complain if I get booked. But tomorrow I will stick right on the speed limit....long weekend and double demerits !!   ??? ???
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 04, 2019, 07:33:33 AM
Yes thats Right Mr Edz, I can see most things and I am watching for trucks and 4wds and cars coming up and tail gating me that really sits me off out on the open road, I had towing mirrors on my last 4wd but some bugger liked them better than me, My Wife said to am I going to fit a set and I said no because someone will steal the flaming things like the last ones, oh well, Yes My misses was up me all the time about double demerit points on the holidays, Craig 
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: KeithB on October 04, 2019, 07:41:54 AM
Craig,
Maybe have a look at some Ocam mirrors. They aren't cheap by any means, but a lot cheaper than Clearview. The parts backup is good and they work fine. I like being able to see the trailer  wheels in the lower convex mirror as well as getting good all round vision. But the extra width is a pain in the narrow streets in our neighbourhood. At least they fold back when you hit something.
Keith
https://www.ocamindustries.com.au/towing-mirrors/ (https://www.ocamindustries.com.au/towing-mirrors/)
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 04, 2019, 07:42:57 AM
I saw something just this week (but can't find it again now :-[) that said open your driver's & passenger windows, measure the distance between the outside edges of the external mirrors, then measure the maximum width of your CT / van. If your existing mirrors are wider than the van, you don't need towing mirrors - if the van is wider than the mirrors, you do!

Wouldn't that be "inside edges" ?
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 04, 2019, 07:48:35 AM
Yes thats Right Mr Edz, I can see most things and I am watching for trucks and 4wds and cars coming up and tail gating me that really sits me off out on the open road, I had towing mirrors on my last 4wd but some bugger liked them better than me, My Wife said to am I going to fit a set and I said no because someone will steal the flaming things like the last ones, oh well, Yes My misses was up me all the time about double demerit points on the holidays, Craig

If you can see over the top of your camper trailer, it isn't so bad, but clowns who get around with vans and no wide mirrors should get booked. No way they can know if anyone's up their klakker when they are driving in towns or busy dual lane driving, with people changing lanes all the time.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: #jonesy on October 04, 2019, 08:39:04 AM
Craig,
Maybe have a look at some Ocam mirrors. They aren't cheap by any means, but a lot cheaper than Clearview. The parts backup is good and they work fine. I like being able to see the trailer  wheels in the lower convex mirror as well as getting good all round vision. But the extra width is a pain in the narrow streets in our neighbourhood. At least they fold back when you hit something.
Keith
https://www.ocamindustries.com.au/towing-mirrors/ (https://www.ocamindustries.com.au/towing-mirrors/)
Are there ones that sit closer to the car? The un-extended size would be all I need. The extra length wouldn't let me get in my carport.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Fizzie on October 04, 2019, 08:53:27 AM
Wouldn't that be "inside edges" ?

No, the article said outside edge, working on the theory that if your van is 2.4m wide, but your mirrors are 2.4+ anything, then you can still see past the van, even if it's only 10 - 20 mm on each side.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: KeithB on October 04, 2019, 09:27:49 AM
Are there ones that sit closer to the car? The un-extended size would be all I need. The extra length wouldn't let me get in my carport.

Mine come out 400mm from the mounting surface on the door and can extend way beyond that. My van is 1900 wide and the view unextended is great. I can see the traffic as well as the trailer wheels. You can fold them back flat against the car if space is tight. Mine fold back on their own all the time when I hit things with them.
Keith
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: RebsWA on October 04, 2019, 09:50:01 AM
As an aside, I fitted a camera on the back of my caravan that gives a constant view of whats behind and its a whole lot better than any mirrors I have ever had.
However, that is illegal here (source: WA Police) and can only be on when reversing. Reason given is it is a distraction to the driver!
I suggested the same could be said for for my navigation screen, double din multimedia screen, other driver aids now common in modern cars, etc, and of course the rear view mirrors if you constantly keep an eye on them.
Was told I would/could be fined if caught with camera on while driving.
My point being, technology has a simple and inexpensive alternative to the mirror fiasco but it is illegal under the traffic code.  ???  >:( Go figure.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Fizzie on October 04, 2019, 09:54:30 AM
At least in Qld you can have a rear view camera on the back of the van :D, but it can't be your primary source of vision - you've still got to have mirrors ::)
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: KeithB on October 04, 2019, 10:08:27 AM
As an aside, I fitted a camera on the back of my caravan that gives a constant view of whats behind and its a whole lot better than any mirrors I have ever had.
However, that is illegal here (source: WA Police) and can only be on when reversing. Reason given is it is a distraction to the driver!

Not relevant to this discussion but, back in 1968, we had the first London to Sydney Marathon rally. When all of the competitors cars rolled off the ship in Fremantle, the WA cops were there to make sure that they all had their four way flashers disconnected. Too advanced for Australia at the time.
Keith
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Bird on October 04, 2019, 10:34:46 AM
Quote from: RebsWA
Reason given is it is a distraction to the driver!
Sounds fair to me, most people struggle to drive watching straight ahead, let alone looking away to focus on a screen.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 04, 2019, 11:19:40 AM
I have bought some and they work well, mite just sika flex them on just to make them harder to steel, Craig
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: RebsWA on October 04, 2019, 11:32:12 AM
Sounds fair to me, most people struggle to drive watching straight ahead, let alone looking away to focus on a screen.

Think about it!!!
It's less distraction to look at the screen situated in the centre of the dash below the vehicle rear view mirror than to have to look left and right outside the door windows at images bouncing around.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Bird on October 04, 2019, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: RebsWA
Think about it!!!
It's less distraction to look at the screen situated in the centre of the dash below the vehicle rear view mirror than to have to look left and right outside the door windows at images bouncing around.
most are not.. most are connected to the radio/stereo inc a few people here who have asked how to set em up there.

Then you have the bloke in our club with a 10inch Samsung tablet in center of windscreen, who sees nothing (literally) wrong with it... waiting for 5-0 to discuss that one with him.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: RebsWA on October 04, 2019, 12:25:19 PM
most are not.. most are connected to the radio/stereo inc a few people here who have asked how to set em up there.

Then you have the bloke in our club with a 10inch Samsung tablet in center of windscreen, who sees nothing (literally) wrong with it... waiting for 5-0 to discuss that one with him.

Most sat navs are in the radio/stereo and that's OK? - and probably a bigger distraction than a rear view screen.
As for the bloke with the 10" tablet, well I agree.
But what I have done is better than mirrors and less of a distraction. Just a quick glance and you know whats up your clakker and the normal side mirrors show what's along side. If I thought for one minute it compromised safety when towing it would be removed.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: KeithB on October 04, 2019, 01:31:45 PM
I have a lifted 200 Series with 33's and two spares on the back. In spite of having proper towing mirrors if there is a Camry or something smaller right behind me in the traffic, I can't see it. So I have a full time reversing camera, which I can turn off at night. It's a big help and a valuable safety item.
Keith
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: austastar on October 04, 2019, 07:17:34 PM
Hi,
   I have 2 cameras switchable from 1 screen.
1. Mounted near towball, sees too much sky, sees too much road dust at night (IR lights built in).
2. Mounted in rear window of camper, viewing way too wide to be useful as rear view camera, but the close distance perspective is better.

The screen is way too bright at night, out shines the Defender's headlights, so it gets turned off at night.

The ideal camera would have a viewing angle of 90 degrees, be mounted high on the rear of the camper, angled to have the horizon at the top of the screen and the screen be dead black at night and NO infra red lights.

Cheers

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Fizzie on October 05, 2019, 08:56:41 AM
I have bought some and they work well, mite just sika flex them on just to make them harder to steel, Craig

I also saw something a while back (may have even been on here ???), that, by THE book, you're not supposed to have towing mirrors fitted if you're not towing at that moment eg arrive at camp & unhook the van, take the mirrors off to drive into town, put them back on next morning to head for your next camp, rinse & repeat every day ...  :'( ::)
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: bmwfreak on October 05, 2019, 09:52:42 AM
This is my understanding, for QLD at least, and is the reason that I feel Clearview and the like extendable mirrors are a practical solution, in spite of the cost🤑
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 05, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
At least in Qld you can have a rear view camera on the back of the van :D, but it can't be your primary source of vision - you've still got to have mirrors ::)

Yep, because the camera won't be able to see down the side of your van, which is the legal requirement.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 05, 2019, 05:25:06 PM
Most sat navs are in the radio/stereo and that's OK? - and probably a bigger distraction than a rear view screen.
As for the bloke with the 10" tablet, well I agree.
But what I have done is better than mirrors and less of a distraction. Just a quick glance and you know whats up your clakker and the normal side mirrors show what's along side. If I thought for one minute it compromised safety when towing it would be removed.

That's the problem, with most vans, your normal mirrors don't show what's sitting alongside the back corner of your van. That's why you need the mirrors. My normal mirrors used to only be able to see the front of the van and bugger all else.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 05, 2019, 05:32:33 PM
These work well
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: nab on October 05, 2019, 06:12:54 PM
I bought some cheap eBay clear new style mirrors, $279 delivered for the pair. They look massive but in reality only stick out 50mm more each side compared to the standard mirrors. Makes reversing and towing much more easier, losing the electric fold in is a nuisance off-road but is the only disadvantage for me (looks and wind noise could be considered major disadvantages to some).
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: RebsWA on October 05, 2019, 06:17:32 PM
That's the problem, with most vans, your normal mirrors don't show what's sitting alongside the back corner of your van. That's why you need the mirrors. My normal mirrors used to only be able to see the front of the van and bugger all else.

I can see quite well down the side of the van with the vehicle mirrors and coupled with the camera have a better knowledge of what's behind and beside the rig than I did with extension mirrors. Needless to say I still fit the extension mirrors to stay legal but don't take much notice of them.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Paddler Ed on October 05, 2019, 09:06:03 PM
I know this is the superseded version, but this gives you an idea as to the field of vision you need to have from your side mirrors:
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L02663 (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L02663)

Screen snip in the attachment
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 06, 2019, 09:46:48 AM
I can see quite well down the side of the van with the vehicle mirrors and coupled with the camera have a better knowledge of what's behind and beside the rig than I did with extension mirrors. Needless to say I still fit the extension mirrors to stay legal but don't take much notice of them.

So you have the 13 foot Starcraft (the narrowest), with a max width of 2166mm excluding the awning. Towing with the 06 Troopy? And the distance between the outer edges of your mirrors are 2050mm max? Not taking into account that they aren't mounted on the extreme outside dimensions, so they would actually be a bit less. You're doing well then, with the van 116mm wider than the outer edges of your mirrors.

Even with my slightly wider mirrors (2150 max, to the outer edges) I know I can't see down the full length of my van, which is 2280mm, by a long chalk, hence the addition of my towing extensions. my van is 130mm wider than the outside of my mirrors.
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: RebsWA on October 06, 2019, 02:14:21 PM
So you have the 13 foot Starcraft (the narrowest), with a max width of 2166mm excluding the awning. Towing with the 06 Troopy? And the distance between the outer edges of your mirrors are 2050mm max? Not taking into account that they aren't mounted on the extreme outside dimensions, so they would actually be a bit less. You're doing well then, with the van 116mm wider than the outer edges of your mirrors.

Even with my slightly wider mirrors (2150 max, to the outer edges) I know I can't see down the full length of my van, which is 2280mm, by a long chalk, hence the addition of my towing extensions. my van is 130mm wider than the outside of my mirrors.

Whatever!
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 06, 2019, 05:53:28 PM
Whatever!

 ;D
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: jclures on October 07, 2019, 03:04:09 PM
These work well
Troopy 03 what brand were these?
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: Troopy_03 on October 07, 2019, 07:29:33 PM
Troopy 03 what brand were these?


They were made from a set of Toyota 79 series mirrors, new off Gumtree, and a second set of Oras $8.00 at a garage sale.

The bows have been shortened to try and keep within (close to) ADRs. 4mm X 30mm X 30mm angle for the mounting brackets.

See here: http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=54863.msg963144#msg963144 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=54863.msg963144#msg963144)
Title: Re: Rules on towing mirrors
Post by: jclures on October 08, 2019, 07:05:52 AM
Thanks, I think I will have to do something along those lines as well. :cheers: