MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Agent009 on December 15, 2017, 07:54:57 AM
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I know this forum is probably more suited for camper trailers, but hoping someone can help with caravans.
We are in the market for a caravan and are finding it very overwhelming with all the different brands/models out there.
i.e.
Concept
New Age
Crusader
JB
Elite
Nova
And many more not listed here
We have been camping for over a decade in a camper trailer but want a bit more creature comfort now. Some of our specifics are:
1. Our tow vehicle is isuzu mux (3 tonne towing) so must be suitable for that.
2. Looking between 19 to 23 foot range
3. The bed (queen size) must be at the opposite end of the entry door
4. Must include washing machine, ensuite and aircon
5. This will be for caravan parks only with 240v only. We will keep our camper trailer for national parks and any off-road stuff
Thats probably our list for now that we are using as a starting point. Does anyone have any feedback on above brands (or another brands)? Any to stay away from or any highly recommonded?
Thanks!
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Start at the beginning first....VAN WEIGHT.
3.0 TONNE MAX means the vehicle is at its limit and already stressed. Look for a van that weighs 2 tonne and by the time all the sleeping gear, food, fluids, tarps, chairs, tables, leads, water and extra fuel is loaded you will be around 2.5 tonne. A figure that will see an easier tow, less stressed vehicle (and driver), less fuel usage and all perfectly legal.
Personally I would want to see a weighbridge certificate before I would purchase any van...plenty have been caught out with an illegal , overweight van. Salesmen spin too much bullShit.
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I know what you mean about the overwhelming bit. We've just bought a caravan and the choice available is astounding. My family had caravans when I was growing up and the amount of choice now compared to back then is amazing. My experience is quite limited as this is our first caravan of our own after tent camping and using camper trailers for a few years but happy to share what I experienced in choosing one. To answer your points:
1) & 2) - Vehicle tow capacities these days are a bit of a contentious issue as all manufacturers want to be able to boast max legal towing capacity. Whether it's advisable to do so is a different matter. My 10c worth on the issue is firstly review all the GVM/GCM of the vehicles as it is very very easy to be within legal towing weight (3T in your case), and within GCM, but then find that you are way way over vehicle GVM once you add tow ball weight, bull bar etc, weight of passengers, etc. Secondly, regardless of legal capacities I think the tow vehicle should be heavier than the van to minimise the chances of getting into a situation where the tail starts wagging the dog. Many folks will disagree with that but that's just my opinion. Regardless of what you choose, make sure you get proven tare weight certificate and an agreement in writing as to the payload for the van (some are very low).
3) If you're looking at a 2 berth than than should be easy enough to find. If you're looking for a family van it's a probably a little less common, but I have certainly seen a few like this.
4) I think most come with these now
Of the brands you mentioned I thought all were OK in terms of quality. We ended up buying a New Age as they had so many layout options (and could offer the layout we wanted), and seemed to offer the best mix of strength (seems to be build like a brick outhouse) and affordability. They were great to deal with all through the purchase and they were very flexible with what changes we could make etc. Unfortunately their attention to detail and after sales service has tarnished that a bit. They forgot to make some (but not all) of the changes we requested at manufacture so they had to be done by the dealership, and I found some of the wiring to be terrible. New Age pretty much washed their hands of this, but thankfully the dealership were a lot more accomodating. Now that most of the issues are fixed up I'm happy with the van and I still think it is a good solidly build van. We're going away in it for the first time next week so hopefully I still agree with that statement in 2 weeks time! Overall though I'm not sure I'd buy from New Age again. With so much completion in the market I'm sure you can find other manufactures who have an equally good product but who back their product with far better service.
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3) If you're looking at a 2 berth than than should be easy enough to find. If you're looking for a family van it's a probably a little less common, but I have certainly seen a few like this.
x willions..
I noticed that when I was looking at vans earlier this year.. page bros out of 50 odd vans had 2 for families new or used on display.
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I also would not go over 20 feet if you are using it in caravan parks
Van parks are trying to fit more people in that means making the sites smaller and normally then there are only 2 or 3 designated sites for large vans and they are usually in the worst position
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Scale one of these builds to suit your needs, Head off to Styromax http://www.styromax.com.au/ (http://www.styromax.com.au/) or Vanglass http://vanglass.homestead.com/ (http://vanglass.homestead.com/) or one like them and you will most likely be tens of thousands $$ better off and have exactly what layout you would like .http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28199.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28199.0) ..... http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=49824.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=49824.0)
Styromax build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlEfjmqbT3g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlEfjmqbT3g)
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Promblem solve 4 ya.
I have a off rd lotus trooper 21ft 2010. Its 2 berth sat tv bla bla very fancy and all the rest. Its up for sale, wife will love it. It right on yr weight with a ATM 2.8T easily upgradable to 3t. If you wish. Its in s.e vic.
Joe
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Start at the beginning first....VAN WEIGHT.
3.0 TONNE MAX means the vehicle is at its limit and already stressed. Look for a van that weighs 2 tonne and by the time all the sleeping gear, food, fluids, tarps, chairs, tables, leads, water and extra fuel is loaded you will be around 2.5 tonne. A figure that will see an easier tow, less stressed vehicle (and driver), less fuel usage and all perfectly legal.
Personally I would want to see a weighbridge certificate before I would purchase any van...plenty have been caught out with an illegal , overweight van. Salesmen spin too much bullShit.
^^ This. Everything here is gold, right down to salesmen telling you what they want. They don't care if they sell you a van you can never legally tow!
We have spent MONTHS now researching what van we're buying (we're a little different for you - needs to be capable off-road and we can tow up to about 3.3 tonne comfortably, but aiming to keep to 3 tonne if we can). We have it down to a single brand of vans because we've nit-picked what we like and don't like about the different ones out there (suspension, frame, other build components, etc. etc.). It IS overwhelming when you first start, but you will find good information online. The Caravaners Forum is also a great place to get some advice. We've had some very sound advice (and some not so sound - you will need to be very discerning with what everyone tells you!) from guys on there.
- Don't forget GVM and towball weights
- Do you need to go as big as 23ft? Its amazing what can fit in a van 18-20ft if its just two people you're catering for, as long as its been well designed!
- If you are going to predominantly use it at caravan parks do you need a washing machine? It is amazing what you decide isn't 100% necessary once you start thinking about weight and space considerations!
- Don't forget about kitchens - are you happy with something basic (a couple of burners, a sink, and maybe a microwave) or do you want a complete kitchen with an oven?
- Do you want an ensuite with separate shower and toilet, or is a shower over toilet OK? I was dead against the shower over toilet configuration, but once again decided I was being too fussy and it wasn't that big of a deal when it meant we could consider shorter, lighter vans if I compromised there.
The other huge considerations are budget and if you're planning to buy new or second-hand.
Oh, there's also apparently a Lemon Caravans Facebook group. My husband loves it (I'm not on Facebook so I'll take his word for it!). He's found out all sorts of gems from there, like certain caravan brands going into financial troubles when they tried the hard sell on us only perhaps 2 months ago. ::) Good thing we didn't like their vans anyway. ;)
The other thing I'd recommend doing is going to a few caravan shows. Have a look at the build quality (we were shocked at things like poor quality joinery and all sorts of other things), talk to the salesmen. Be very, very wary. Salesmen will feed you a lot of rubbish and expect you to be dumb enough to believe every word (some of the lies we were spun were ridiculous!). Smile, nod, and get the hell outta there. If the vans on show have faults or their salesmen are telling you blatant lies, what can you expect if you actually went ahead and had a van built through them?!
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We're on our second van now. 1st one was a River Eliminator. Bloody good value for money and built like a tank. It had a few rough edges but it did what we wanted at the time. Then our plans changed when we decided to do the big lap. Suddenly the little compromises we made with the first van were not going to cut it for a life on the road. Things like storage and living space become big issues.
I went to a meet up of this group in Yakandanda and met a member who had a Roadstar Safari Tamer. I sat in it and I noticed how nicely finished it was and how practical the layout seems to be. Storage was amazing and inside was a really nice place to be.
Long story short, I took the other half to see one and we were both pretty much convinced this was the way to go. We're now planning on living in this van full time from May next year.
They are not a cheap brand but they do have a lower spec range called GT Sport. They would suit your requirements perfectly. Heaps of options including aluminium frame and full composite.
Regardless of what you decide to get, there's a few things I would say are a must in a caravan. Storage is really important. You want to be able to get to your every day items quickly and easily. Don't get a front loader washing machine. They can weigh around 40-50kgs..! Stick with the top loaders. A pull out BBQ like a Weber makes outdoor cooking quick and easy.
Also be careful with the rear door layout you're interested in. Some manufacturers put the wheels too far back on the chassis for this configuration and the result is a very heavy towball.
Good luck
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We're on our second van now. 1st one was a River Eliminator. Bloody good value for money and built like a tank. It had a few rough edges but it did what we wanted at the time. Then our plans changed when we decided to do the big lap. Suddenly the little compromises we made with the first van were not going to cut it for a life on the road. Things like storage and living space become big issues.
I went to a meet up of this group in Yakandanda and met a member who had a Roadstar Safari Tamer. I sat in it and I noticed how nicely finished it was and how practical the layout seems to be. Storage was amazing and inside was a really nice place to be.
Long story short, I took the other half to see one and we were both pretty much convinced this was the way to go. We're now planning on living in this van full time from May next year.
They are not a cheap brand but they do have a lower spec range called GT Sport. They would suit your requirements perfectly. Heaps of options including aluminium frame and full composite.
Regardless of what you decide to get, there's a few things I would say are a must in a caravan. Storage is really important. You want to be able to get to your every day items quickly and easily. Don't get a front loader washing machine. They can weigh around 40-50kgs..! Stick with the top loaders. A pull out BBQ like a Weber makes outdoor cooking quick and easy.
Also be careful with the rear door layout you're interested in. Some manufacturers put the wheels too far back on the chassis for this configuration and the result is a very heavy towball.
Good luck
You forgot to add "Don't buy new - bargains to be had"
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I reckon the most important bit of info thats been stated already is
the GMV. Our kerb weights are around 2T. I got a Dmax and if you reckon your gonna pull 3t van safely, well we have different concepts on safety.
I pull a 2.2T loaded van and thats plenty. It scares me seeing what some people pull. Either buy a tug to suit the van or a van to suit the tug. All this manufacturers hype on huge towing capacity for what are really mid size 4wds is bordering on criminal, of course all this is just my humble opinion.
Cheers Glen
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^^
Oh, there's also apparently a Lemon Caravans Facebook group. My husband loves it (I'm not on Facebook so I'll take his word for it!). He's found out all sorts of gems from there, like certain caravan brands going into financial troubles when they tried the hard sell on us only perhaps 2 months ago. ::) Good thing we didn't like their vans anyway. ;)
I would make the Lemon Caravans Facebook page your first stop, there are not many brands that are not on their list. Ask a lot of questions about your choices so you are aware of problems to look for when inspecting the different types.
Rob
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Same boat here. Looking for a family van under 18ft.
Can get plenty over 20ft with a small double bed, no bunks and a ensuit.
We want a proper double/queen bed, good kitchen and storage and 2 X dedicated bunks.
Not to keen on the ensuit. As it will only be used in van parks. I've noticed it's mainly women that want the ensuit, but it's always the man that has to empty the Shitter every morning at the dump site throwing up his breakfast. Fk that.
All the van dealers look at me strange as they don't understand why I don't want the ensuite, I would rather have that space for dedicated bunk beds, then he says what bout resale value.
Buying a van and worry about resale value, is the same as having a girlfriend, you don't sleep with her because your worried what the next bloke might think.
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^^ Hilarity ensues !
I’ve just been away in Tassie (with my camper ) when we stayed in caravan parks my wife n I cracked up watching the women every morning taking the little suitcase for a walk ......
Hubby wandering along behind looking lost - trying to distance himself from the box of Shit !
My only advice with regard to caravans is .
Buy a brand that is known , don’t buy anything weird no matter how reasonable the price seems .
After sales and Warranty WILL be a challenge with a “ bobsyouruncle “ brand .
I have a Coronet , would happily reccomend .
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I think an ensuite is very important. Nothing worse than being warm and cosy in bed then needing to use the dunny in the middle of the night. It's cold, wet, you need to put clothes on and do the mercy dash before you soil ya jocks. Then you get all settled back in bed when 10mins later one of the kids wakes up and you need to do the run again...
I wouldn't use it to do my morning bog though!!!!
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I have a hybrid....and looked at the big name caravans....
My approach, would be to narrow down to 2 manufacturers first......don't look at the vans themselves.....then once you've settled on a manufacturer that meets your main requirements (i.e...build quality, warranty, after sales service, reliability, price bracket), then, and only then, start talking to them about what you want in a van. Most good manufacturers will have, or be able to do something that meets your needs. And if you have 2 that are good, you are definitely going to get something.
If you do it the other way around, then you get sucked into the van features, and don't focus on the long term stuff that causes you 'real' pain.
And, as others have mentioned, the lemon Facebook page has some great advice...
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I think an ensuite is very important.
I'm the opposite... I cant think of anything worse than Shit stink throughout the trailer while your having lunch... going for a walk honestly isn't that bad.
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I'm the opposite... I cant think of anything worse than Shit stink throughout the trailer while your having lunch... going for a walk honestly isn't that bad.
Couldn't agree more. Fancy having a Shitter 6 foot from the dinner table.....
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I'm the opposite... I cant think of anything worse than Shit stink throughout the trailer while your having lunch... going for a walk honestly isn't that bad.
No such problem in my van coz my Shit doesn't stink ;D ;D
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No such problem in my van coz my Shit doesn't stink ;D ;D
at your age it would only be dust anyway wouldn't it ???
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Here you go
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(https://i.imgur.com/2Jrz4DC.png)
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Thanks everyone, some great info!!
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If you're male and over 65, I'd be getting a van with an ensuite.
Why?
Because men are Shit at looking after themselves once they retire, and after 65 is when your prostate is most likely to play up. If you're lucky, it'll still be visits to the toilet because you need to piss; if not, it's a bag. Sorry to be quite so blunt, but get the prod done as well.
Also, with the van without an ensuite you're limiting yourself to caravan parks or other organised camping.
They aren't as bad as the naysayers here are saying - in fact, I'm amazed at how far in the dark ages Australia is with the lack of ensuites in vans. Even back in the 1970s UK vans had cold water systems and a bathroom with a portapotti in it - my parents first van in 1986 was a 1979 Lynton Javelin that had that; it was upgraded 4 years later to one with hot water and a casette toilet. That allowed us to stay at some sites that didn't have any facilities (CL's) as were self contained.
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Spend a tad extra.
https://www.ecoflo.com.au/cms/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAgs7RBRDoARIsANOo-HhLSaQtJxFbs28A0vDg6vpP1O5CXEUYAXSCcx91hXFtr1A5jztkvD0aAgebEALw_wcB (https://www.ecoflo.com.au/cms/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAgs7RBRDoARIsANOo-HhLSaQtJxFbs28A0vDg6vpP1O5CXEUYAXSCcx91hXFtr1A5jztkvD0aAgebEALw_wcB)
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This might get a tad embarrassing.
https://www.ecoflo.com.au/cms/images/homepage-content/home-content-03.png (https://www.ecoflo.com.au/cms/images/homepage-content/home-content-03.png)
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^^^^^^^^
For who ? :D
Older i get the less i seem to care about such things. I look at it more like.
You want to watch me shower or sit on throne with a veiw. Well that'll be the problem they'll need to live with lol.
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Problem with a non ensuited caravan is resale...inlaws just sold one recently, not only did it sell for about 4K less then they hoped to get but took ages to sell also. The majority of buyers seriously looking at getting a van, want one with an ensuite.
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Problem with a non unsuited caravan is resale...
Agree with that ^, but it's a buyers market if you can live without....
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Agree with that ^, but it's a buyers market if you can live without....
yep...hence the inlaws got 4K less then they originally wanted
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I know this forum is probably more suited for camper trailers, but hoping someone can help with caravans.
We are in the market for a caravan and are finding it very overwhelming with all the different brands/models out there.
<snip>
4. Must include washing machine, ensuite and aircon
5. This will be for caravan parks only with 240v only. We will keep our camper trailer for national parks and any off-road stuff
Thats probably our list for now that we are using as a starting point. Does anyone have any feedback on above brands (or another brands)? Any to stay away from or any highly recommonded?!
4 years ago I purchased a ex rental dual axle 6 berth Swift Quattro FB Caravan -- it's a large light weight family van with a en-suite
not quite what you are looking for as no washing machine, but it does shows it's possible to get luxury and size without weight, as I reckon quite a lot of vans are just far too heavy.
The specs of the Swift Quattro FB Caravan is quite amazing
Berths 6
En-suite with shower and Toilet
length 26ft or 7.94 meters
Overall height 2.6m
tare 1361 kg
Towball weight approx 75kg
I have towed the across the Barkley Hwy twice Darwin to Port Macquarie, been around the East coast Brisbane to Adelaide and back to Darwin -- being ex rental goodness knows how many Kms before I owned the van
Not a bad looking van
(https://image.ibb.co/dTQJ0R/Ford_Ranger_Towing001.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/bGUd0R/cavanvan001.jpg)(https://image.ibb.co/ixwQfR/cavanvan002.jpg)
There is a number of manufactures that do lightweight van such as
Adria http://www.apollorvsales.com.au/adria.aspx (http://www.apollorvsales.com.au/adria.aspx)
Bailey http://www.baileyaustralia.com.au/ (http://www.baileyaustralia.com.au/)
Happy hunting since I have just thrown in a couple of other brands.
:cheers:
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Thanks cyberess, ill check those out.
And we will be using toilet for number 1s only (no number 2s lol).
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Thanks cyberess, ill check those out.
And we will be using toilet for number 1s only (no number 2s lol).
And it'll smell worse. The checimals, eco friendly or not will work best with both "waste" products together. If you have the right checimals in the tank when you empty it it'll just pour out in a liquid form ...
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In my experience to date, keep away from late 2015 onwards Coromals. Something has seriously gone downhill on the quality font. If in doubt ask on the Coromal Owners Page, that’s if they don’t deem your post too negative!
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I'm another one supporting the ensuite, purely from the "flexibility in travel" angle. We free camp when and where we can. Ensuites are a bonus for that reason. Sometimes you might be doing a very long walk with a shovel looking for some privacy if you don't have your own facilities. Honestly, I'm kind of over that...
Resale is also a good consideration. We're buying second-hand because from the research we've done new vans seem to depreciate a little quicker than we'd like. Slows down after a while, though. We're also handy enough to do some cosmetic refurbishments if necessary, so that goes in our favour. From watching the market it appears vans with weird layouts and lacking ensuites do not sell well - some "good" vans (at least manufacturer-wise) with odd layouts have been sitting for months. If you intend to sell your van down the track, it IS worth considering.
Also re: the smell, in theory a well functioning caravan ensuite shouldn't really smell much at all, if anything.
I know my comments won't change the minds of those who detest the idea of an ensuite or find them totally unnecessary, but they are the reasons why we wouldn't buy a van without one.
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I'm another one supporting the ensuite, purely from the "flexibility in travel" angle. We free camp when and where we can. Ensuites are a bonus for that reason. Sometimes you might be doing a very long walk with a shovel looking for some privacy if you don't have your own facilities. Honestly, I'm kind of over that...
or you just put up a Shitter tent behind the van, and use a portable Shitter :) Same as nearly all camper trailers have to do. No need for shovel either.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OzEcY4Qg-Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OzEcY4Qg-Q) ;D
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or you just put up a Shitter tent behind the van, and use a portable Shitter :) Same as nearly all camper trailers have to do. No need for shovel either.
Gotta have a shovel so you can muck with the fire, c'mon I'm not the only one, I've seen others as well.
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Gotta have a shovel so you can muck with the fire, c'mon I'm not the only one, I've seen others as well.
na.. just add more wood ;D
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or you just put up a Shitter tent behind the van, and use a portable Shitter :) Same as nearly all camper trailers have to do. No need for shovel either.
Definitely an option. We didn't like the idea of carrying around a giant bucket of poo that could potentially leak/get knocked over/etc. in transit, so we never did it. Slightly less of a concern for the caravan... at least we hope so. ;) LOL
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My hard walled camper has an ensuite. Never used it myself or my
Boys but the wife and daughter use it for 1’s. Great in the night for them and I prefer it than if I’m at a dodgy CP
Swannie
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and I prefer it than if I’m at a dodgy CP
... and how often do you stay at a dodgey van park ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Need an idea for your kitchen....
(https://images.thewest.com.au/publication/B88704276Z/1515629077234_G0N1D9RU9.1-1.jpg?imwidth=600&imformat=generic)
Have you ever wondered what life would be like if you installed a fully functioning kitchen on the back of the caravan? Yes, of course you have.
Well, one bloke who rolled into Karratha last week has actually done it.
We spotted this gem taking up two car bays — and a bit extra — at the Karratha shops last week.
Complete with storage cabinets, cooktop, double-basin sink and meal prep area, this bumper kitchen latched onto the back of the caravan answers all your culinary needs.
It is for the discerning grey nomad who feels the need for a five course meal while on the road, and, judging by the size of the satellite dish, you will be able to get food inspo from My Kitchen Rules in every corner of Australia.
http://www.pilbaranews.com.au/?news%2Fpilbara-news%2Fcheck-out-this-wa-nomads-caravan-kitchen-ng-b88704276z (http://www.pilbaranews.com.au/?news%2Fpilbara-news%2Fcheck-out-this-wa-nomads-caravan-kitchen-ng-b88704276z)
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Wow that's a lot of weight at the back of the van, just the thing for the van to pick up the death wobbles, on over taking.
:cheers:
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Wow that's a lot of weight at the back of the van, just the thing for the van to pick up the death wobbles, on over taking.
LOL.. I was thinking spot the defects... There'd have to be lots of illegal in that, apart from obscured # plate LOL
but looks like its been there a long time... Wonder if they are parked, or setup for the night in the carpark ;)
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Need an idea for your kitchen....
(https://images.thewest.com.au/publication/B88704276Z/1515629077234_G0N1D9RU9.1-1.jpg?imwidth=600&imformat=generic)
Have you ever wondered what life would be like if you installed a fully functioning kitchen on the back of the caravan? Yes, of course you have.
Well, one bloke who rolled into Karratha last week has actually done it.
We spotted this gem taking up two car bays — and a bit extra — at the Karratha shops last week.
Complete with storage cabinets, cooktop, double-basin sink and meal prep area, this bumper kitchen latched onto the back of the caravan answers all your culinary needs.
It is for the discerning grey nomad who feels the need for a five course meal while on the road, and, judging by the size of the satellite dish, you will be able to get food inspo from My Kitchen Rules in every corner of Australia.
http://www.pilbaranews.com.au/?news%2Fpilbara-news%2Fcheck-out-this-wa-nomads-caravan-kitchen-ng-b88704276z (http://www.pilbaranews.com.au/?news%2Fpilbara-news%2Fcheck-out-this-wa-nomads-caravan-kitchen-ng-b88704276z)
That is funny as but also inspiring. Must really love their bbq.
Cheers Glen
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That is funny as but also inspiring. Must really love their bbq.
Cheers Glen
imagine being behind it, and watching the flex in it over a bumpy road - there'd be move movement in that than dolly parton doing star jumps... You'd be Shitting hot coals thinking your going to run it over eventually!
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Never ceases to amaze me what people do to their vans. The old "just because you can doesn't mean you should" comment seems to ring true here...
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Need an idea for your kitchen....
(https://images.thewest.com.au/publication/B88704276Z/1515629077234_G0N1D9RU9.1-1.jpg?imwidth=600&imformat=generic)
Have you ever wondered what life would be like if you installed a fully functioning kitchen on the back of the caravan? Yes, of course you have.
Well, one bloke who rolled into Karratha last week has actually done it.
We spotted this gem taking up two car bays — and a bit extra — at the Karratha shops last week.
Complete with storage cabinets, cooktop, double-basin sink and meal prep area, this bumper kitchen latched onto the back of the caravan answers all your culinary needs.
It is for the discerning grey nomad who feels the need for a five course meal while on the road, and, judging by the size of the satellite dish, you will be able to get food inspo from My Kitchen Rules in every corner of Australia.
http://www.pilbaranews.com.au/?news%2Fpilbara-news%2Fcheck-out-this-wa-nomads-caravan-kitchen-ng-b88704276z (http://www.pilbaranews.com.au/?news%2Fpilbara-news%2Fcheck-out-this-wa-nomads-caravan-kitchen-ng-b88704276z)
What a fantasic idea, imagine how much that has reduced the ball weight, now all i got to do is work out what i can put on the drawbar to get back to the industry standard six million kilogram tow ball weight
Sent from my SM-T815Y using Tapatalk
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Not sure if you mentioned kids or not but depending on ages off them maybee a small say 3 person tent for them to sleep in takes bugger all to setup and packs away small , that way you could go with a smaller van . Inside toilets can be quite clean ... we had a casset toilet in a motorhome in Tassie and no smells at all , just need to use correct chemical stuff.