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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: alnjan on August 13, 2017, 10:17:11 AM
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-13/aboriginal-group-charges-cruise-passengers-visiting-kimberley/8790004 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-13/aboriginal-group-charges-cruise-passengers-visiting-kimberley/8790004)
Kimberley tourists to be charged $150 to access sights by Wunambal Gaambera Aboriginal group
An Aboriginal group in Western Australia's far north has become the first to start charging cruise ship passengers to visit world-famous coastal spots like waterfalls and rock art caves, sparking concern among tourism groups.
The fee is being phased in by the Wunambal Gaambera Aboriginal Corporation (WGAC), with cruise and charter boat operators facing a one-off $200 fee per berth during the current tourist season — allowing multiple visits by passengers to the tourist spots.
The charge is set to rise to $152 per visitor by 2019. This would be charged on top of existing fees charged by cruise operators to travel to the sites.
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Interesting way to generate income...
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Hmmm $600 for a family of 4 to visit.... on top of tour operators fees, travel to get there, accommodation etc. That's not about employing rangers etc.
it's a money grab.
If each community goes down this path (which they will), it will remove access to these regions for many Australian tourists (unless they are super wealthy).
The idea of a single 'parks pass' type permit which won't cost the earth is needed. Otherwise Aussie tourists will go elsewhere.
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This issue has rared its head again, Hope it benefits the local communities, been a couple of years since the last time .
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Hmmm $600 for a family of 4 to visit....
... and these places don't understand why people are flocking overseas for holidays... you get so much more for your money overseas.
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... and these places don't understand why people are flocking overseas for holidays... you get so much more for your money overseas.
Reading between the lines, I think these places dont actually want you there so Im sure they wont lose any sleep over a drop in numbers
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Reading between the lines, I think these places dont actually want you there so Im sure they wont lose any sleep over a drop in numbers
agree
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I agree with the charge. Having worked remote for over 24 months, it's great to see Indigenous looking at ways to increase income.
Non indigenous tour operators take advantage of making money visiting spots that are on Indigenous land.
Unfortunatly some people these days want everything for free, or have the attitude that it's a free country we can go where ever we like. They show no respect for Indigenous land.
The locals out here want to start tours, set up amentitie to bring tourists but the big problem is the Land Council. They will want a big slice of the pie. To give you an indication the store we manage pays $51k a year to the land council and gets nothing back for the community.
I expect land council will want their cut of the income. So before we all say they its way too expensive I bet only half of the income will go back to the locals.
Mark
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I agree with the charge. Having worked remote for over 24 months, it's great to see Indigenous looking at ways to increase income.
Non indigenous tour operators take advantage of making money visiting spots that are on Indigenous land.
Unfortunatly some people these days want everything for free, or have the attitude that it's a free country we can go where ever we like. They show no respect for Indigenous land.
The locals out here want to start tours, set up amentitie to bring tourists but the big problem is the Land Council. They will want a big slice of the pie. To give you an indication the store we manage pays $51k a year to the land council and gets nothing back for the community.
I expect land council will want their cut of the income. So before we all say they its way too expensive I bet only half of the income will go back to the locals.
Mark
Very valid point Mark. Unfortunately as soon as you mention Aboriginal or Indigenous all the other 'organisations', agencies' and 'bodies' put there hand out and as you say the locals end up with as good as nothing. Have seen it many times with funding for Aboriginal Housing. It is a big part of of giving money to most Aboriginal or Indigenous issues, those that need it just don't get it, or it goes to one 'family' and not the rest of the Community.
I can see the pros and cons and would like to think if managed properly it can be a good thing. So much Aboriginal Culture has been lost and we need to protect and promote what little is left.
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if managed properly it can be a good thing.
and we all know that will never happen....
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Hi,
I wonder if Land Rights cover transit on water?
Cheers
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??? ??? could that be so ???
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I agree with the charge. Having worked remote for over 24 months, it's great to see Indigenous looking at ways to increase income.
Non indigenous tour operators take advantage of making money visiting spots that are on Indigenous land.
Unfortunatly some people these days want everything for free, or have the attitude that it's a free country we can go where ever we like. They show no respect for Indigenous land.
The locals out here want to start tours, set up amentitie to bring tourists but the big problem is the Land Council. They will want a big slice of the pie. To give you an indication the store we manage pays $51k a year to the land council and gets nothing back for the community.
I expect land council will want their cut of the income. So before we all say they its way too expensive I bet only half of the income will go back to the locals.
Mark
Having done a cruise up there and speaking to the tour owner and crew they told us about this fee and the operators had a meeting with the aboriginal groups and what the tour owners wanted to know was what were they going to do with this money. No valid answer was found. With our tour they were so protective of the aboriginal sites and really looking after the whole area. Rightly they wanted to know how the aboriginal groups were going to spend the new fees to look after the area. To us it sounded like just a money grab exercise. It is spectacular country up there and a must do. It is very expensive to do a cruise so we are not getting something for nothing and I think the tour owners have tried to involve the traditional owners, as last the tour group we were with, and it was not one of the big cruise companies. Kevin
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I am 58 in September , I have lived this long without seeing these sites , but for $150 plus per person, I guess I can keep on living for a long time to come without having the need to see them .
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If its their land they can charge what they want, and its not any tourist operators business what they do with the money.
If a station charges for day access to visit a particular site no one questions it, let alone asks them to justify what they're doing with the money.
Simple economic principles involved, if it aint worth it, people wont go.
Cheers Glen
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What's this going to do to next years Safari ???
Going to effect you at all ??? :'(
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Having done a cruise up there and speaking to the tour owner and crew they told us about this fee and the operators had a meeting with the aboriginal groups and what the tour owners wanted to know was what were they going to do with this money. No valid answer was found. With our tour they were so protective of the aboriginal sites and really looking after the whole area. Rightly they wanted to know how the aboriginal groups were going to spend the new fees to look after the area. To us it sounded like just a money grab exercise. It is spectacular country up there and a must do. It is very expensive to do a cruise so we are not getting something for nothing and I think the tour owners have tried to involve the traditional owners, as last the tour group we were with, and it was not one of the big cruise companies. Kevin
I cant see why they have to explain to the shipping companies what they are using the money for. Also it is explained in the attached limk in the top post. I have never asked tour companies, shops, petrol stations what they do with their money.
Mark
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I am 58 in September , I have lived this long without seeing these sites , but for $150 plus per person, I guess I can keep on living for a long time to come without having the need to see them .
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
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agree
agree x2
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The Wunambal Gaambera people — the traditional owners of the land — said the funds would be used to get local people out to remote sites more often, to help greet tourists, to pick up rubbish and to ensure cultural sites are protected.
"It's mainly to support our [Uunguu] rangers and help the traditional owners go out on country to protect areas … and to welcome tourists too, so they can see the rangers talk about the country and the area they're in."
If this is the case then great. But forgive me if I am a little bit sceptical that that will happen. Have travelled this country a lot and paid my share of fees but have not seen too many positives. Like the $50 fee just to drive through a town, looks just like any other town, our taxes have paid for the entire infrastructure, but no we had to pay $50 for nothing. (And that very night a group had a nice little riot and guess who had to pay for the repairs to the town, yes the tax payer.)
The fees are also just to sail the waters and I thought no one can own below the tide mark? I may be wrong. The tour operators we spoke to were happy to pay to go into sites and when we did the cruise we would have loved a local aboriginal person to meet us and explained to us the art etc. In fact it would have been brilliant. But the operators and I am talking about the smaller operators who are passionate about the Kimberley, just wanted to believe that the money was not going to be wasted. But as stated, they own the land and waters so go for it, charge what they want. Sorry to sound like this but I just hate the waste and the sadness of it all. Kevin
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The Wunambal Gaambera people — the traditional owners of the land — said the funds would be used to get local people to pick up rubbish
That will do me, getting the local people to pick up rubbish. I assume their own rubbish, sounds something like a Kevin Rudd education revolution plan in action.
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I am 58 in September , I have lived this long without seeing these sites , but for $150 plus per person, I guess I can keep on living for a long time to come without having the need to see them .
Same age....and WA is one place I haven't been to. If I do get over there one day, these fees could determine where I do and don't go !!
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Same age....and WA is one place I haven't been to. If I do get over there one day, these fees could determine where I do and don't go !!
I think a lot of people will work on that ..
Family of 4... 10 sites to see $600 per site.. = **** that.
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What's this going to do to next years Safari ???
Going to effect you at all ??? :'(
If the fees come into affect it will be up to members on the trip to decide. For me personally, I would be happy to pay. Spending all that money on fuel, accomodation etc to get there and to save $300, for 2 people, and not experience the places is a personal choice.
The less people who don't want to pay means less of a crowd ;D
Mark
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Is $150/person really that much?
Have you seen how much the Sydney attractions cost?
Skywalk: $70/person (https://www.sydneytowereye.com.au/tickets/skywalk-tickets/)
Or make it a 5 site pass from only $100/person! (https://www.sydneytowereye.com.au/tickets/attractions-passes/)
So, does that $150/person seem so bad now, or how it fits into the grand scheme of things?
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They're just getting quick in before electric cars completely stops tourism in australia! ;D
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Yes it is for me.
I do not mind paying if I believe it is worth it, i.e. my money is being used useful.
The city attractions is called return on investment.
The Kimberley is money grabbing. Yes they will train ranger and pickup their rubbish.
What's that saying about cannot change his spots.
On paper is sounds excellent, give money back and they can invested it.
Anyway, up to everyone if they want to pay or not.
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I am 58 in September , I have lived this long without seeing these sites , but for $150 plus per person, I guess I can keep on living for a long time to come without having the need to see them .
I don't mind paying a reasonable fee to go to some sites but it gets over the top then I won't go and if people don't go then no income.
Greg
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Is $150/person really that much?
Have you seen how much the Sydney attractions cost?
Skywalk: $70/person (https://www.sydneytowereye.com.au/tickets/skywalk-tickets/)
Or make it a 5 site pass from only $100/person! (https://www.sydneytowereye.com.au/tickets/attractions-passes/)
So, does that $150/person seem so bad now, or how it fits into the grand scheme of things?
Still seems like too much. All the other expensive entry fees relate to a place where there is significant infrastructure. Is it costs less for one person to go to a fun park with all the expensive rides etc. $150 per person to look at a natural formation sounds like an awful lot. I have no problem with them charging a fee for tour operators/visitors but unless they are providing 1st class services then it needs to be a lot less to be comparable with other places.
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BUT... Make sure you put it on your bucket list to do one of the cruises from Darwin to Broome or Broome to Darwin. Yes it is not cheap, but that area will blow you away. Do one that will go up all of the rivers and you will see stunning gorges and water falls. And Montgomery Reef is a must see, then the islands in the archipelagos.... Just get there... :cup: Kevin
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Still seems like too much. All the other expensive entry fees relate to a place where there is significant infrastructure. Is it costs less for one person to go to a fun park with all the expensive rides etc. $150 per person to look at a natural formation sounds like an awful lot. I have no problem with them charging a fee for tour operators/visitors but unless they are providing 1st class services then it needs to be a lot less to be comparable with other places.
Agree.. If you want to attract people - $15 adults and $5 for kids is ample.
If you want to lose people $150each.
I still don't think the money will end up where it is needed or for what we are told it will be for. Heard it all before.
Not sure why it is, when you go to remote towns and some of the "Museums" etc charge Sydney CBD prices for 2 rooms of very little.
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I am 58 in September , I have lived this long without seeing these sites , but for $150 plus per person, I guess I can keep on living for a long time to come without having the need to see them .
I am with Duggie on this. I doubt the money would be spent on cleaning up anything in Community. Just a blatant ripoff.
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Unfortunatly some people these days want everything for free, or have the attitude that it's a free country we can go where ever we like. They show no respect for Indigenous land.
I understand the concept, but fear the fee is a tad steep. We are planning to go this way, and likely will pay... somewhat begrudgingly.
No, not because we expect it for nothing. We don't. We had absolutely no qualms paying the $99 at the Jardine ferry, nor did we complain in the slightest about paying the measly $10 per person just to visit Elim Beach (we didn't camp).
I think the fee should be reasonable. I'm definitely happy to pay more than $10 a head, maybe even up to $50-$100 a head for somewhere like the Kimberley... I would rather see that money go to a local community in a case such as this than a rich corporate group running an amusement park! But at $150 each it does hurt a little and cut into the travel budget a bit more. I can see why families would stay away. Maybe have a per vehicle fee like they do at the Jardine crossing...?
I do believe we should support local economies when we travel (don't get me started on those who free camp, leave rubbish lying around and turn local facilities to filth, and don't even spend a dime in the community... even worse when they are free camping illegally!), but I think there is a fine line between what is reasonable and justifiable, and what amount will actually cause a decline in visitor numbers. Some may say that's a good thing...
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And if you read the article think about the future. The start of the fees are if you want to visit the area by water. Now I am trying to think of anywhere else where you need to pay to visit a place by water only and does not include a tour and not necessarily stepping onto any land. Yes if you want to step onto their land why not charge a reasonable fee.
But there is also concern about the prospect of multiple fee systems being introduced in coming years, requiring companies and travellers to pay as many as six native title groups along the Kimberley coast.
Kimberley Marine Tourism Association (KMTA) said it would prefer people were charged a small, one-off visitor fee — similar to that charged at national parks — that could then be distributed to all native title groups across the coast. That sounds OK to me.
The Wunambal Gaambera Aboriginal Corporation also plans to introduce a land-based permit system in coming years, involving fees for people wanting to visit sites like the Mitchell Falls by road.
And so it begins my friends. It was attempted on Fraser Island a few years ago where local groups wanted to charge people to visit the island and in fact they did stop people and hit them for money. The authorities put a stop to that then, but why not allow the traditional owners to charge their own fee. Have a look at how much of Australia could be effected. Another point is when they collect the fees does that affect any tax payer funds going into that community, as it would if anyone else on welfare gets another income?
And like others have said, not saying they should not charge a fee but make it reasonable and actually use that money to make a difference. Kevin
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Here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clVX1LevLUs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clVX1LevLUs) Ive covered the cost ;D No need for endless hours of heat, corrugations dust and flies, sit back with a beer and enjoy the sights .. Gotta love youtube . :cheers:
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$100 per family to visit Kakadu or $40 per adult (free if you are a NT resident), which does not include camping fee's
$190 for a NSW parks annual pass.
$29 per vehicle per day to visit Kosciuszko in winter & $17 per vehicle per day in summer (does not include camping / accommodation fees)
$12 per day per vehicle to visit Royal Nat Park in Sydney (doesn't include camping fee's)
$48 for a 1 month or $242 for a year pass to visit Fraser Island (doesn't include camping fee's)
$48 per week or $150 per year to drive on Bribie Island
$12 per day or $32 a week or $250 a year for a pass to drive in Cooloola Nat Park in Qld (doesn't include camping fee's)
$25 per adult for a 3 day pass to see Uluru, or $33 for an annual pass
Just trying to add some perspective..............................
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I would think that this payment will be contested.
Under Australian law no one person or group owns the beach , between high tide and low tide water marks , nor can you own a piece of the ocean or reef .
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$100 per family to visit Kakadu or $40 per adult (free if you are a NT resident), which does not include camping fee's
$190 for a NSW parks annual pass.
$29 per vehicle per day to visit Kosciuszko in winter & $17 per vehicle per day in summer (does not include camping / accommodation fees)
$12 per day per vehicle to visit Royal Nat Park in Sydney (doesn't include camping fee's)
$48 for a 1 month or $242 for a year pass to visit Fraser Island (doesn't include camping fee's)
$48 per week or $150 per year to drive on Bribie Island
$12 per day or $32 a week or $250 a year for a pass to drive in Cooloola Nat Park in Qld (doesn't include camping fee's)
$25 per adult for a 3 day pass to see Uluru, or $33 for an annual pass
Just trying to add some perspective..............................
Better add $160 for the SA Desert Parks Pass ;) And now, other than the Simpson, you do have to pay camping on top of that! ;)
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I think some here are getting a little high horsey on this particular issue. You do realise the remoteness of the location don't you? That is in the domain of the $1000 per day/head of the charter boat operator. If one can afford a $10K, 10 day trip from Darwin to Broome, a $150 access fee is just coinage in comparison. It's not going to affect most of us here.
But there are other issues attached to this worthy of discussion.
I laughed when they stated they will be using the funds to pick up rubbish. What a croc. I've had my boat up in that country and I can tell you rubbish is not an issue. - at least not the sites I've been to. Tourists leaving empty beer cans on remote isolated beaches ;D ;D ;D. Yeah right. More like discarded commercial fishing gear, fuel drums and other flotsam and jetsom, none of it the domain of the charter boat tourist. I'm not going to touch the indigenous being the custodian of their cultural lands....and treating it like the town tip.
Damaging "sacred sights" is an issue and it's no wonder they get pissed off. Unfortunately, there are a lot of tools that live among us, and unless its permanently occupied, you wont stop that happening. Guaranteed the tools wont be paying for access.
The bigger issue here is the issue of copycat fee's. Once one group is successful implementing a user pays fee, the others will jump on board too. I'm not disagreeing with a user pays system, but when this is splintered over multiple traditional owners down the coast, each charging their own fee, it will become cost ineffective for a lot of tourists. Getting all the groups together and setting a single, affordable access fee is the only way to go if a fee system "needs" to be introduced. Then you have the land council and admin issues as discussed above.
"ït's a beautiful landscape and everbody is welcome"
Just leave your money on the fridge.
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Don't matter what brand of paint you slap onto this, it's still a grab for cash. The black fella has just learnt the white mans ways, take as much as you can get. So can you really blame them.