200 series advice!

[achjimmy]

My opinion would be to get the KDSS, probably the best option available, maybe factory lockers as well

If you go for the D4, get the E-diff and rear air if you can, mine has these, the rear air is brilliant.

Baz.

Baz Their aint no factory lockers in Oz 

[achjimmy]

I am in the same dilemma, but I also really like the Discovery 4 too.  Be interested to know what your quotes come back at Watty.

What are people's opinions on KDSS - get it or don't?

John cruiser went up $1500 across the range in March. Pretty much below is what i think is achievable based on my research and what i see/saw on lcool, all TTD.

GX $71k
GXl $81k (non KDSS)
VX $91k
Sahara $107k

Biggest selling models seem to be GXL and Sahara. i went with VX because i needed folding mirrors (seriously) and i thought seeing you got F&R sensors, KDSS and leather that it was better value over GXl. That was my justification not casting!


Having had the KDSS and belted it around the outside of an Audi going up Lapstone Hill faster than i ever have I am impressed, but that could be the Lovells as well?

The D4 again without bagging them out comments by you and other re compressor failures turned me off a little, then at the dealership two things happened. First we rock up and he tells me as Saturday is 1st of the month all the specials we discussed yesterday finished and the spec I looked at had gone up $10k WTF! Then the model he had aside to show me wouldn’t work! Windows wouldn’t go up and something else failed. Walked next door and sat in a Cruiser (Altitude) and all the family including two boys who adored the Disco agree rear leg room murdered the D4.

Initial 1000kms This thing is simply the best vehicle I have ever owned (not just fourbies) it is magnificent to drive. The room, the power, oh the Power, you just decide to pass and its done.
I have done the Lovells GVM upgrade and changed tyres to D697 from new. Re GVM, my thoughts are if you are considering fitting it out and towing haevy things go Lovells you will need the 3800kg. if all you are going to do is fit drawers, bulbar and Driving lights and have a light towball download the ARB upgrade will surfice.
ARB GVM upgrade $2300
Lovell’s GVM upgrade $3800

Really needs to happen before first rego.

[Nomad]

None of you bastards is helping talk myself into the new Prado......................at $70K odd for an altitude a 200 is.........

[nbd73]

None of you bastards is helping talk myself into the new Prado......................at $70K odd for an altitude a 200 is.........

Glad to not be of help.... 

[Wuzgonna]

Hi Watty,

Go for the 200!
We have a 2011 VX  TTD with KDSS.
As every one says power power power!!
We tow an Aussie Swag, with 3 boys and all the gear to go with it.
Performed faultlessly over summer in the high country. It is my daily drive and I would not swap it for anything!! any extra dollars you spend now you should get back when you sell.

Good luck choosing the colour of your new 200! (The only decision for you that is left to make)!

[achjimmy]

None of you bastards is helping talk myself into the new Prado......................at $70K odd for an altitude a 200 is.........

that's why I reckon they keep the GX price. If the 200GX was $60k I reckon Prado sales would tank but not as fast as 3lt Patrols.

[crackacoldie]

I went to look at a 200, got the 100 out of the shed, drove down the road and realised I couldn't part with it.  They are a nice car and drive well, particularly in the TTD.  Good luck with the purchase.

  Cracka

[Redback]

John cruiser went up $1500 across the range in March. Pretty much below is what i think is achievable based on my research and what i see/saw on lcool, all TTD.

GX $71k
GXl $81k (non KDSS)
VX $91k
Sahara $107k

Biggest selling models seem to be GXL and Sahara. i went with VX because i needed folding mirrors (seriously) and i thought seeing you got F&R sensors, KDSS and leather that it was better value over GXl. That was my justification not casting!


Having had the KDSS and belted it around the outside of an Audi going up Lapstone Hill faster than i ever have I am impressed, but that could be the Lovells as well?

The D4 again without bagging them out comments by you and other re compressor failures turned me off a little, then at the dealership two things happened. First we rock up and he tells me as Saturday is 1st of the month all the specials we discussed yesterday finished and the spec I looked at had gone up $10k WTF! Then the model he had aside to show me wouldn’t work! Windows wouldn’t go up and something else failed. Walked next door and sat in a Cruiser (Altitude) and all the family including two boys who adored the Disco agree rear leg room murdered the D4.

Initial 1000kms This thing is simply the best vehicle I have ever owned (not just fourbies) it is magnificent to drive. The room, the power, oh the Power, you just decide to pass and its done.
I have done the Lovells GVM upgrade and changed tyres to D697 from new. Re GVM, my thoughts are if you are considering fitting it out and towing haevy things go Lovells you will need the 3800kg. if all you are going to do is fit drawers, bulbar and Driving lights and have a light towball download the ARB upgrade will surfice.
ARB GVM upgrade $2300
Lovell’s GVM upgrade $3800

Really needs to happen before first rego.

I'm 5' 11" and I'm supprised you and the family reckoned the rear seat leg room was that bad, seemed pretty good to me, how tall are your wife kids this was one of the reasons we chose the D4, the room inside, yes the Cruiser was bigger in the 1st and 2nd row seats, but not by much, but the cargo section and carry load was larger(no need for a GVM upgrade)

I do agree about the poor customer service from LR Dealers, they just don't care and are only interested in customers looking at the top of the range vehicles and people that will just agree with anything they say I know this from talking to them, phone manners are poor at best, also doesn't supprise me about there test vehicle, having spoken to their tech section and seen some of they handy work, they have no clue about the vehicle, could not answer one question I asked about the car, they just don't like people questioning their diagnoses, you just get blank stares and the computer reckons there's nothing wrong WTF

We love the car, just a beautiful car too drive, amazing offroad, but no way would we buy another one, not after the treatment we have been subjected too, I think our next vehicle will probably be a 200 series as well, but that's a far way away yet.


Anyway enough about the D4, back to the topic at hand, I think Watty has made the right choice, I know a couple of people with the 200 series and I have driven one, they are very nice and that V8 is lovely.

Baz.

[achjimmy]

Baz there teenagers and fitted in the D4 but they just had more room in the cruiser. And remembering that they will grow over the next 4 years we intend to have the car for. We have been caught before as the kids grow.

If I could have taken one thing from the D4 it's the seats. I think the leather Altitude/VX seats are better in the Crusier than the GX/GXL fabric (support wise ignoring any fabric/leather debate) but still away short of those D4 seats.

[jeb1900]

A good place to talk about cruisers is lcool (land cruiser owners on line, they have a specific 200 series section in there. 

I'm a forum member over there.  Tonnes of very knowledgeable people, just like this forum it is very good. 

Linkage:
http://www.lcool.org/forum/index.php

[Watty2975]

Thanks again guys for all the feedback and discussion it has really helped cement our decision. Sorry to the Perspective Prado  buyers, I feel your pain!!

The dealer quote seems to be the best it will get and they are coming to the party with the finance rate. Just waiting for the email confirmation to come through.

Now there is the colour choice: silver, shimmer, graphite, white. Leaning towards the silver or shimmer. The dealer is also getting an ARB quote on bullbar, suspension and snorkel.

[MarDon]

Really happy with our 200. Regardless of offroad ability, it just feels so nice to drive.

Just had a conversation yesterday with my husband about when people change their minds about stuff? For example, when the 200 first came out, for the first few years, it seemed nobody wanted to go anywhere near one, and they seemed to be rubbished everywhere you looked/read etc. And we got our fair share of "you'll be sorry" when we ordered ours. Always by people that didn't actually have one mind you! And all of a sudden it seems in the last 12 months or so, numbers of them on the road have exploded, and they are getting nothing but praise! Our car has many many identical twins out there!


If the car suits your needs, you like the car, and  can justify the dollars spent, (for me this is completely different to the financial ability to purchase) you will enjoy it for sure.

There was a thread a while back about the 10 steps to buying one...it was pretty much spot on for us! 



Dee.

[nbd73]

MarDon, perhaps one of the reasons numbers have exploded in the last 12 months is that the buyers of the very early models have started trading up to brand new ones? 5-6 years seems to be what a lot of people do, especially those that lease which I believe would apply to a fair number of 200's. Or this statement could be plain BS.

[MarDon]

Could be nbd73. Could also be that once we got ours 18 months ago, we just notice them a whole lot more now! Like anything, don't pay much attention to others until you get/do something, then all of a sudden it seems everyone has one/is doing the same! Kids/campers/cars etc...

Dee.

[achjimmy]

I think it's a combination and some of what NBD says is right. The secondhand ones have to go somewhere. But I think it is an acceptance that they ain't an oil guzzling white elephant that's worst than a 100 series, But the opposite.   

[the eagle]

Hi, I  had 3 Patrols over 21 years. They were used & abused 4 wheeling around this great country of ours and they performed well. I am a member of a 4WD club.
The new petrol Patrol was a disappointment & I couldn't bring myself to buy the 3 litre so bought a new LC200 diesel in March & couldn't be happier The power, gearbox, space & fitment are excellent.
Just had an ARB fitout & am off to the Canning Stock Route in July.

Good luck with your deliberations.
The Eagle

[Watty2975]

Thanks Eagle
Just returned from another test drive. Toyota are going to arrange an overnight test drive next week. SWMBO drove it today and the further we went the less she noticed the size and felt it drove like a car. Just highlighted again how truck like my GU Patrol is.

[achjimmy]

Thanks Eagle
Just returned from another test drive. Toyota are going to arrange an overnight test drive next week. SWMBO drove it today and the further we went the less she noticed the size and felt it drove like a car. Just highlighted again how truck like my GU Patrol is.

Watty my wife has only driven the 200 for a 100-150ks so far (yeah Iam not a sharing kinda guy) Imediatly she is more confident and comfortable in it than the Pajero. She was never cool with the Pajero's "top heavy" feel or the poor vision at the back due to headrests, spare wheels etc.

[cm4x4nut]

Watty my wife has only driven the 200 for a 100-150ks so far (yeah Iam not a sharing kinda guy) Imediatly she is more confident and comfortable in it than the Pajero. She was never cool with the Pajero's "top heavy" feel or the poor vision at the back due to headrests, spare wheels etc.

mine would not drive the trol unless backed into the corner. Despite tha additional size, she is more than happy to drive the Cruiser. The auto gearbox also means that she will be able to do a driving stint when the camper is on the back as well.

[Pathfinding]

I'm in the same boat currently.  I'd narrowed my choices down to the LC200 or the D4.  I REALLY like the D4 and if it wasn't for one small factor that is what I'd aim for.  But we are a family of four and I currently own a Nissan R51 Pathfinder (don't laugh!) which has the same GVM (670kg) as the D4.  I have struggled from day one to stay under the GVM and my kids are still only little.  I believe this is the single biggest factor for a family towing tourer.
I've done the numbers on the Pathy over and over. Once I hitch up the Swan, I can't have a longer fuel range tank, can't get a winch. I even had to ditch the roof rack and pull out the 3rd row seats to stay under the GVM.  670kg is not enough by a long shot.
So, the LC200 has just a bad a payload BUT it has one thing over the D4, it's GVM can be upgraded. In my book, WIN, game over.  The D4's adjustable suspension, whilst it would be wonderful for the wife, can't be touched aftermarket and you are stuck with only 670kg.

I do have concerns regarding the LC200 that would be good to add here for anyone else researching.
1) Is the oil consumption really that bad?
2) I've read alot about a vibration through the steering wheel?
3) I'm guessing it's not the greatest for parking around town?

Oh, and we sat in one yesterday and my wife felt very small and expressed her concerns for being able to handle such a beast.  She's 5' 4" and is worried once the thing gets lifted she won't be able to get the kids into their car seats, let alone get herself in!

Cheers

[cm4x4nut]

I'm in the same boat currently.  I'd narrowed my choices down to the LC200 or the D4.  I REALLY like the D4 and if it wasn't for one small factor that is what I'd aim for.  But we are a family of four and I currently own a Nissan R51 Pathfinder (don't laugh!) which has the same GVM (670kg) as the D4.  I have struggled from day one to stay under the GVM and my kids are still only little.  I believe this is the single biggest factor for a family towing tourer.
I've done the numbers on the Pathy over and over. Once I hitch up the Swan, I can't have a longer fuel range tank, can't get a winch. I even had to ditch the roof rack and pull out the 3rd row seats to stay under the GVM.  670kg is not enough by a long shot.
So, the LC200 has just a bad a payload BUT it has one thing over the D4, it's GVM can be upgraded. In my book, WIN, game over.  The D4's adjustable suspension, whilst it would be wonderful for the wife, can't be touched aftermarket and you are stuck with only 670kg.

I do have concerns regarding the LC200 that would be good to add here for anyone else researching.
1) Is the oil consumption really that bad?
2) I've read alot about a vibration through the steering wheel?
3) I'm guessing it's not the greatest for parking around town?

Oh, and we sat in one yesterday and my wife felt very small and expressed her concerns for being able to handle such a beast.  She's 5' 4" and is worried once the thing gets lifted she won't be able to get the kids into their car seats, let alone get herself in!

Cheers

Pathfinding, I will try and answer some of your questions, please bear in mind these are MY experiences only.

1) Mine has used  no oil since I got it. When looking at second hand cars we always check that the log books had been done on time. When looking for the 200, I also looked to see if any of the services were late. With the one we got, it had once gone 15,000k's between services, if it was using oil, then this would not be possible, so for once a late service was actually a selling point. If you are buying new, from what I have read on LCOOL, they all seam to use a bit of oil for the first 20,000k's or so, then it mostly vanishes.

2) I have never really felt any vibration through the wheel. It definitely has less vibration than the old trol did so for me this is a non-issue. Perhaps if you were coming from a Rolls you may notice something, but I think the vibration thing is relative.

3) Parking around town is easier than the old trol was due to the fact it has a better turning circle. It is big, but never really been an issue for the boss or me. She does not like revers parallel parking it though............. lol

4) The boss for me is 5'6" and she has no issues with getting in or out of it now it is lifetd, but again the old trol had a 5" lift in it so, again she likes the cruiser better.

Hope that helps mate, and anything else, fire away

[boobook]

SNIP

I do have concerns regarding the LC200 that would be good to add here for anyone else researching.
1) Is the oil consumption really that bad?\
2) I've read alot about a vibration through the steering wheel?
3) I'm guessing it's not the greatest for parking around town?

Oh, and we sat in one yesterday and my wife felt very small and expressed her concerns for being able to handle such a beast.  She's 5' 4" and is worried once the thing gets lifted she won't be able to get the kids into their car seats, let alone get herself in!

Cheers

1)The oil consumption thing was overplayed, mostly by people who have 'friends of friends' and not owners. Pre mid 2009 there were a few using oil, like mine, ( about 1L/4000km, but Toyota fixed it and like 99 % of them on the forum with a new scavenger pump, it now uses 1l /10,000km approx. I am ok with that. There are 2 - 3 owners on LCOOL whop have experienced big oil use and Toyota replaced the rings but this was very limited. I believe all post June 2009 are ok.
2)Yep most diesels seem to vibrate the wheel at around 1800 RPM.  It's not too bad and it either goes away or you don't notice it after a while, not sure which though. It isn't a big issue or vibration. It's easy to forget you are in a diesel.
3)It's a big 4wd though with the camera it is a lot easier than any of my other 4wds to park.

The biggest issue is that fuel use is great to start and goes up with all the crap you put on it ( tyres, roof rack, bull bar, etc etc etc). You gotta feed them horses when under load.

Get it! It is the best car I have ever had, and by miles the best 4wd. It is quieter than a BMW on the road and goes great on it's own or towing. KDSS is great off road and it has a better RTI out of the factory than a 2" lifted GU. The TC works well and the diesel V8 provides fantastic engine braking down steep hills.

[nbd73]

1)The oil consumption thing was overplayed, mostly by people who have 'friends of friends' and not owners. Pre mid 2009 there were a few using oil, like mine, ( about 1L/4000km, but Toyota fixed it and like 99 % of them on the forum with a new scavenger pump, it now uses 1l /10,000km approx. I am ok with that. There are 2 - 3 owners on LCOOL whop have experienced big oil use and Toyota replaced the rings but this was very limited. I believe all post June 2009 are ok.
2)Yep most diesels seem to vibrate the wheel at around 1800 RPM.  It's not too bad and it either goes away or you don't notice it after a while, not sure which though. It isn't a big issue or vibration. It's easy to forget you are in a diesel.
3)It's a big 4wd though with the camera it is a lot easier than any of my other 4wds to park.

The biggest issue is that fuel use is great to start and goes up with all the crap you put on it ( tyres, roof rack, bull bar, etc etc etc). You gotta feed them horses when under load.

Get it! It is the best car I have ever had, and by miles the best 4wd. It is quieter than a BMW on the road and goes great on it's own or towing. KDSS is great off road and it has a better RTI out of the factory than a 2" lifted GU. The TC works well and the diesel V8 provides fantastic engine braking down steep hills.

x 2. In particular the vibration was something I noticed, but as stated its not bad, just annoying for a modern vehicle but I barely notice it now so you do get used to it. No oil consumption in 2 services and 1 year of ownership. Reverse camera brilliant. My wife drives ours no problem. Fuel use: hey its a 2.7tonne V8 4wd which tows anything without slowing down, you're not going to get 3.0l V6 economy out of it, but it tows better than those style of vehicle. Don't be confused by numbers relating to engine performance, many of those smaller diesels claim big numbers but they don't tell the whole story. The graph of the outputs, matching of gearbox and performance under load are more relevant factors than simply comparing magazine style stats. Disclaimer: have not personally driven the land rover 3.0 but others that have still say the Toyota tows better overall.

[Pathfinding]

FYI.
Just made a phone call to WA Suspensions and you can get the Lovells LC200 GVM upgrade to 3800kg on the used models aswell.  The "new car" clause is for federal approval.  On used models you can get State approval instead.  What they don't say is that a state approval is recognised in all other states aswell...  it's also cheaper.

[TOPNDR]

I do have concerns regarding the LC200 that would be good to add here for anyone else researching.
1) Is the oil consumption really that bad?
2) I've read alot about a vibration through the steering wheel?
3) I'm guessing it's not the greatest for parking around town?

!

Cheers

1. No,  I'm on my way to a 120,000 km service. I'd guess that I've put no more that three or four litres (HTF does spell check change litres to "lite press"?) in the engine (apart from normal servicing) in 3.5 years.

2. I have a very slight buzz but usually I'm only aware of it when I think of posts on LCOOL and concentrate on it.

3. It's got power steering, my wife's shorter than yours and she has no issues.  I have no problem reverse parking into a standard road-side parking bay, with a vehicle already parked front and rear.

Get the Lovells upgrade - 3800kg GVM