Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[CBRK]

Ok, finally got to some videos, I've upload 2 videos of the mini Quad with miniAPM board.

https://www.youtube.com/user/tubepapy/videos

Just basic flight testing videos so nothing too scenic.

Chris

[Marschy]

Very nice Chris. Is that the Mobius camera you are using there?

How are you finding the mini quad compared to your tri-copter?

Loiter looked nice and steady. Have you given drift mode a go yet Chris?

[CBRK]

Very nice Chris. Is that the Mobius camera you are using there?

How are you finding the mini quad compared to your tri-copter?

Loiter looked nice and steady. Have you given drift mode a go yet Chris?

Hi,

Yep it's the mobius recording that, I have to say both the Mobius (approx $80) and my action cam (also around $80) seem to give my GoPro 3+ Black some good competition.  Youtube has downgraded the quality as well, when I compare them on my screen here there is very little difference.  I think that on the edges the GoPro does a better job, but on the center of the image they are hard to distinguish.

Of course that is comparing 1080p with 1080p.  When I change the gopro to 2.7K or 4.3K well then it's a different kettle of fish :-)

I find the mini quad to be quite a lot less stable, it bounces around a lot more.  I find it hard to trust the loiter mode, I had it move horizontally on it's own nearly 15m today, I left it for a while to see if it would recover but once it got that far I had to put it back into stablise to bring it back under control as I had limited loiter to 2m/s max speed.  I think this was due to the wind that blowing a bit, had I left it on 5m/s I think it might have recovered......  You might notice in loiter it tends to see-saw alot, I will have to get autotune to work or do some manual tuning I think.

I'm happy with ALTHOLD mode it is rock solid.  I can lock it to that mode and fly around with only a few m of drop or height gain before it corrects itself.   Since it's ALTHOLD is rock solid I will try drift mode shortly (most likely early next week), I've been playing with ACRO mode today, want to get comfortable using it.  Brings back memories of the tricopter on the KK2 board (when not using auto level).

Was a bit too windy, had the miniQuad on a 10 degree lean to keep it steady in the wind, so I backed up at that stage.

Now if I don't get any call outs today or tonight I'll work on the tricopter a bit later today.  I really want to get the gimbal mounted and calibrated so that I can give it a go.  I'd like to take my Tricopter on a trip to Abercrombie River NP over the Aus Day long weekend.  Would be so much better with the gimbal on it, so next week will be more about the Tri than the quad.  Toying with the idea of bringing both but my wife might not be impressed when I say no more clothes but sure I have room for the mini Quad......

Chris

[Marschy]

I reckon that is as good a reason to get a mini tri-copter than any other reason Chris 

[Marschy]

I've just ordered the motors, ESC's and two sets each of 6x4 and 7x5 propellers for my Quanum Trifector mini tri-copter. I'm going to put a miniAPM in this frame as well, but I'll wait for Chinese New Year as I reckon there will be sales on Aliexpress around that time.

The motors are Emax MT2206 1500kv, thrust is 400g with 9x4.7 props and 630g with 8x4.5. The frame is good for 6-8 inch props so should be well matched to these motors. 6 and 7 inch props are recommended, so I'll do a bit of testing with the props I've purchased to see which is the better size.

[Crisp Image]

To change it over you need to turn up your solder iron right on up so you normally desolder antenna post on the side with the chip and then you slide a very thin knife under the antenna (to break the glue).  Should be able to pull the antenna off.  With it turned up high you should have it touching for minimal time, so it shouldn't heat up the GPS chip to much.

I got the old one off but the solder for the pin is under the chip so have to apply the heat to the top (antenna side) so I will just have to try. Got nothing to loose as it is busted now and I have another on its way and have taken up Steve's offer of the spare GPS he has. I'll give it a try.
The compass calibration still throws me. I got a magnetic field checker and it goes sky high when I put my phone on my laptop as expected but everywhere else in the house it is acceptable levels of about 70uT even outside in the middle of the yard.
More research to do.
Regards
Crispy

[CBRK]

I find the mini quad to be quite a lot less stable, it bounces around a lot more.  I find it hard to trust the loiter mode, I had it move horizontally on it's own nearly 15m today, I left it for a while to see if it would recover but once it got that far I had to put it back into stablise to bring it back under control as I had limited loiter to 2m/s max speed.  I think this was due to the wind that blowing a bit, had I left it on 5m/s I think it might have recovered......  You might notice in loiter it tends to see-saw alot, I will have to get autotune to work or do some manual tuning I think.

I have reviewed the telemtry radio logs and the OSD and I can confirm that right when it did it's fast move horizontally it was due to the GPS sat count going down sharply....  It was at 7 sats for most of the time and right before it did the fast move it dropped to 4 sats, so the HDOP would have risen, meaning that it wasnt good for a loiter.  Funny thing is that almost to the second after I switched back to Stabilise it jumped back to 7 sats and then to 8 shortly afterwards.  So had I left it going it would have recovered on it's own.

I dont like that I have to give it a 15m area to play in though - this has a fullsize 25mmx25mm GPS antenna and a 6m GPS chip.  I'm wondering if a pixhawk with the more advanced EKF stuff would handle that situation better.  I think it uses the IMU more to determine the GPS's glitches that can occur.  I'm thinking of laying down some cash on a clone Pixhawk but I have to watch my pennies till I get some work, I have a small RC budget of $150 a month for the next 2 months (assuming I get some work again in March).  A pixhawk plus goodies will blow 2/3's of that and that assumes I don't break anything else I've got till then :-)

Chris

[CBRK]

I got the old one off but the solder for the pin is under the chip so have to apply the heat to the top (antenna side) so I will just have to try. Got nothing to loose as it is busted now and I have another on its way and have taken up Steve's offer of the spare GPS he has. I'll give it a try.
The compass calibration still throws me. I got a magnetic field checker and it goes sky high when I put my phone on my laptop as expected but everywhere else in the house it is acceptable levels of about 70uT even outside in the middle of the yard.
More research to do.
Regards
Crispy

Ummm, the pin should go from the antenna side though the board to other side (side with the GPS chip - not the antenna) - it could be to one of it's pins.  Always desolder from the GPS chip side.  No major prop you should be able to see where that post goes a bit easier now that your pulled it off the GPS antenna 

If you are getting around 70uT's then that is good, sounds like it could be the board.  There were some pixhawks (geniune and clones) which were faulty that people had to send back as they kept getting abnormal readings from a variety of compasses.  Does Steve's GPS has a compass on it?  Just that in the photos I saw I cant recall seeing one but hard to tell from the pics?

Have you tried the compass calibration powered by Lipo (well away from the PC - like 3+m - connect via telemtry), then no Lipo but via USB?  Does it result in vastly different readings?  For example is it always the Z axis that is out or does this change from calibration to calibration?

Even though your house is getting great readings, since your using a laptop then try calibrating elsewhere just to see what happens.  It's sounding like the board might have an issue since it doesn't appear to be your environment and you have tried multiple different compasses (internal and external) and they get similar results.  Just remember that AC3.2 compass calibration is much easier than the AC3.1.X calibration.

Regards,

Chris

[Crisp Image]

Chris,
I have done the compass thing with the internal and external compass. The broken one is the only one I have so will wait to see what happens when I get the new replacement one. As far as the chip and solder point goes I will add some photos to this post soon showing the GPS and where the pin goes through the board. I lands smack bang in the middle of the GPS ship.
The waiting game is going to be painful but I just have to wait.




X marks the spot

Regards
Crispy

[CBRK]

Chris,
I have done the compass thing with the internal and external compass. The broken one is the only one I have so will wait to see what happens when I get the new replacement one. As far as the chip and solder point goes I will add some photos to this post soon showing the GPS and where the pin goes through the board. I lands smack bang in the middle of the GPS ship.
The waiting game is going to be painful but I just have to wait.




X marks the spot

Regards
Crispy

Hmmmm, that is annoying, most have it just outside the chip.  I notice there isnt alot of spare space on this board.  That is why they likely did it.  The replacement GPS antenna should have the post already attached.  Challenge will be to solder the new antenna in.  I'm hoping you wont have to remove the GPS chip to do that but it's looking like you might.  I've got a couple of MinimOSD boards that I plan to resurrect as I've got my replacement chips.  I'll do a video on how to do it, you can use the same principal for the GPS chip.

It involves using a heat gun or butane solder iron with heat gun attachment.  A set of tweezers and some luck :-)  To put new chip in involves some tweezers, soldering iron and solder.

Chris

[Marschy]

I have a small RC budget of $150 a month

That's what I try to limit myself to, but I think I'm suffering from obsessive compulsive quad parts buying syndrome.

[Mandrake]

On that basis I can't buy anything for 12 months !!!  Bwaaaaa Haaaa

[Artie01]

$150 per month???

Lordy thats akin to the Aus Guberments spending on health and education....woefully inadequate!!!! 

I make sure I check the mail box.... otherwise I gotta 'explain stuff'.... like today the new pump arrived for the current trailer build..... was walking towards the carpark from the post office...."ahem! ..... and just what is that???" WTF? we don't even live in town! Is she stalking me?? (which doesn't make sense, shes already married to me.....)

[Marschy]

Hey Chris and Crispy,

Now these look good for APM platforms. A PDB with the APM power module in all one.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__74645__Micro_HKPilot_Mega_PDB_BEC_and_Volt_AMP_Sensor_30_5mm_Mounting.html

On the new product page on HK.

Cheers, Mark

[Marschy]

They also have a new 'micro' APM, which looks pretty much like the ones available on Aliexpress flogged as a mini.

[CBRK]

$150 per month???

Lordy thats akin to the Aus Guberments spending on health and education....woefully inadequate!!!! 

I make sure I check the mail box.... otherwise I gotta 'explain stuff'.... like today the new pump arrived for the current trailer build..... was walking towards the carpark from the post office...."ahem! ..... and just what is that???" WTF? we don't even live in town! Is she stalking me?? (which doesn't make sense, shes already married to me.....)

Ah thats why I have a Parcel locker, that way if the wife beats me home I don't have to answer any questions.  I do have to smuggle them past her later on though from the car to the study.....  I've been caught a few time.

I know I've been spending up big before Christmas - it's a major budget cut while I've got no confirmed contract I'm keeping it to a realistic level.  I'm thinking I will expand it a bit and take the plunge and get a pixhawk but I'll wait till I'm back from the Aus Day long weekend.  I have some leeway in my budget, it just depends on what else life throws at me over the next month or two.  I've got a trip to Abercrombie River NP and most likely a few other shorter 4WD trips over the next few weeks.  Need to make sure that I don't break anything on that trip.

Chris

[CBRK]

Hey Chris and Crispy,

Now these look good for APM platforms. A PDB with the APM power module in all one.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__74645__Micro_HKPilot_Mega_PDB_BEC_and_Volt_AMP_Sensor_30_5mm_Mounting.html

On the new product page on HK.

Cheers, Mark

At $160 for the whole package that is not too bad.  Nice and small and all the leg work is done on the connectors too I noticed, this is exactly what I was saying that is done right it will be brilliant.  I'm a bit disappointed that they are charging $63 for the base board though, paid less than that and got the GPS and power module for that price.  I think they could do better on both.

You know your new mini tri would love one of these Mark.

Everything is getting smaller these days.

You know as soon as I buy a Pixhawk they release a new miniature version.....

Chris

[CBRK]

Warning for anyone getting into APM programming (changing the firmware).

Well I have temporarily killed an APM board, I have to reflash the bootloader on to it.  Turns out the real limit for the APM board is 242k, not the 250k that all the software says is the limit.....

I tried to load a custom bit change to allow RCMAP to work on channels 5 to 8.  It was about 2k to big and this will cause the APM to become unresponsive so, now I have to solder on some headers to then plug in one of the programmers I've got to load the APM bootloader back on.  Sigh.....  Why not have the limit set to 242k if that is the real limit.....

I think the code is good and will work just unfortunately didnt disable enough of the non needed items.  Just as well I have spare time at present.

Chris

[Marschy]

Everything is getting smaller these days.

You know as soon as I buy a Pixhawk they release a new miniature version.....

What has happened in just the last 12 months with multicopters is mind blowing.

[Artie01]

What has happened in just the last 12 months with multicopters is mind blowing.

It certainly is that!!!! Cameras as well....

[Mandrake]

Speaking of getting extra stuff and smaller --- Banggood just sent me this on email ... Love the transmitter !!! ]

[CBRK]

Well I decided that I plan on not breaking much over the next month or two :-)  I just ordered my pixhawk clone package, it should arrive shortly after I get back from the Aus Day long weekend.  Plan is to mount it onto the tricopter, I'll mount the two GPS's, it looks like it has two telemetry ports that can both have the TX hooked up, so no having to start the telemetry feed on the radio to get the OSD to work.  It will also have the sonar on it.  In a few months time I will look at adding the optical flow and LIDAR module.

I'll order the lemon receiver 8 ch ppm over the weekend.  I'll just get the one for now.  I'll have the PPM encoder as a backup if required.

I have almost restored the APM i buggered earlier today, I just need to compile a bootloader and load it (currently installing the avr compiling tools on to my linux VM), I have added the additional header row pins to the board, I've confirmed the tools can read the chip from the installed header row pins, I can see that it's locked as it's supposed to (damned if I know how it got buggered...)  So it should be restored tomorrow, fingers crossed.

Oh, I also got in about 15 mins of flying earlier today before the wind suddenly kicked up and I brought the miniQuad down for it's own safety. My local grounds keeper approached me today while I was flying.  He's seen me over the last week or so and thought it was pretty cool.  He's interested in some aerial images of the grounds, so I said once I'm back on the tricopter I'll be doing some aerial mapping as a test run over it, so he's welcome to the images.

Chris

[CBRK]

Well after loosing about 3 hours on this I've discovered that many of the flashing tools wont work on the atmega range, which is what the APM2 is based on..... It will appear to have worked and it's successfully read the firmware again to verify it, but it hasnt really worked.  I have plenty of tools they can do all the smaller stuff such as MinimOSD's, KK2's, etc.  So now I've ordered another tool to reprogram the damn thing.....

Not happy about this, I really think that the tools that upload the firmware should check for this sort of thing, and if you have a locked boot loader I'd expect it to not be overwritten....  Guess thats too much to expect. 

At least I wont have this trouble with the Pixhawk, it has buckets of spare room and it's firmware upload process is cleaner, ie this problem shouldn't happen in theory with it or it will be easier to recover from.  I will wait to see if I can recover it with the new tool before I'll be brave enough to try it on the APM2.7 or the MiniAPM.
 
Also starting to look at the linux clones to see how they are coming along, considering buying a little linux board to do inflight image processing.

I think the APM has finally hit the wall - there wont be too many new features coming it's way, but I'm pretty happy with what it can do so far.  Good news is that with some minor connector changes I can move some of my stuff over to Pixhawks.  Will do one for the Tricopter and one for fixed wing later on.  I'll continue to use APM's for the miniQuad and other test aircraft.

Chris

[Crisp Image]

It seems this hobby is a money pit. Programmers for this and that new parts. But good fun.

[Crisp Image]

Does anyone else have the hk 2.7? I have found a photo on the hk site that shows 2 jumper settings for the compass. One for the internal and one for the external one. Is this correct?
Might be forced to purchase a cheep apm 2.6 kit from the evil bay for about $95 inc postage from aus.
Comments?
Crispy


Sent using fat fingers on the iPad thingy