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General => Previous Member Trips => Trips, Tracks, Touring and Reports => 2012 Cape York Members Trip => Topic started by: yogi on January 13, 2012, 09:44:42 AM
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My top tips after being one of the recovery vehicles last year are as follows (we all learned a lot so hopefully this is of some help to everyone going this year).
- get to know the members in the recovery vehicles (they may just have to save your bacon)
- Recover teams get to know each others calls and have a good understanding of what is expected of each other during a recover.
- have a set UHF channel dedicated to recoveries and only use this channel if your are directly involved in the recovery (several hand held’s seem to work the best last year)
- during a recovery stay a safe distance away from all vehicles involved in said recovery and offer any assistance if required it could be you stuck next. (we had a classic last year where impatient people waiting to cross Palm Creek were walking over winch cables trying to set up there own recovery points while we were trying to recover vehicles. Not only was it extremely dangerous for them it was also slowing down the recovery process and ultimately slowing them down from attempting the crossing them selves.)
- if you don’t know anything about recoveries or are not certain what to do ask questions prior to undertaking the recovery. It is often vitally important to be in the correct gear and apply or not apply throttle at a specific point in time during a recover weather it be winching or snatching ect(a quick rundown on the first night from the recovery team would go a long way to helping out people who are not that familiar with such techniques as well as align peoples thought processes whom maybe familiar with such techniques with the members doing the recoveries ..... everyone does thing slightly differently)
- advise the recovery team prior to tackling an obstacle if you are worried about getting stuck. This is to allow the recovery team time to setup equipment and vehicles as required. (if you drive into water and get stuck it is only a matter of seconds before water will start to enter your vehicles cabin ..... this is not a pleasant experience)
- prior to any obstacle have your recovery gear ready and any D shackles already setup on your vehicle. Not only will it save valuable time while stuck it’s often very hard / dangerous to attach D shackles ect once bogged or stuck in a precarious position. (a tip when leaving D shackles attached to the vehicle for any extended period of time use a small zip tie through the eye of the bolt and the D shackle to stop them unwinding and getting lost. Remember once you have tighten up your D shackle bold give it half a turn to loosen the bold and prevent it from binding up and becoming a permanent fixture to your 4x4 )
- during a recovery or prior to attempting an obstacle take directions only from the recover team members (they can advise once a recovery has been completed and the track is now clear)
- follow the spotter’s directions as they are in the best position to advise of wheel placement, wheel direction, how much throttle to apply and in the event of issue advise to stop or reverse back ect.
- a simple thankyou goes a long way and is all that is needed. (I believe XXXX says it the best though ;D)
There are plenty more so as I think of them I will update .... Timmy got any more to add ?
yogi
One of the most important tips for any trip .........
"NEVER NEVER EVER WHAT EVER YOU DO LEAVE THE TRACK"
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Yogi,
All VERY good velid points for safe recoveries.
As an Ex-army driver I know the importance of a swift, but safe recovery.
My only suggestion is that maybe before departure a kind of "how to guide" that covers snatch and winch type recoveries could be emailed out to all participants. This would allow them time to read and digest any information, and would avoid you missing out on anything before the trip. Forewarned is forearmed.....
I think the biggest problem is when people assume that because someone owns a snatch strap or winch they know how to use them (recent TV shows seem to have debunked that theory)
All the best for a safe trip (and pending recoveries)
If I can be of any help please let me know.
Cheers Chippy :D
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I good tip that we used in our 4wd club was to duct tape a snatch strap to the bonnet of each vehicle. In my 80 it was easier as there is a spot to srore it behind the LH headlight under the bonnet in front of the battery. I used to coil it up with one end attached to the recovery point and put it inside a plastic bag to protect it from a chance of battery acid becoming into contact with it. Some early 80series have the aircon accumulator there so it is not an option.
During recoveries lift the bonnet, pull out the plastic bag, thread the strap back through the bullbar (it was better to come up behind the bar, because when I went over the top it used to catch on sticks etc and eventually unravel) and then throw the strap out in the direction of the recovery vehicle.
Here is another we used to do I know it sounds odd but we had a $4000 radio under the passenger seat. We had 2 big boat bilge pumps wired up with cigarette lighter plugs and we kept them on the floor behind the front seats. they had a 1.5 meter plastic hose on them. If we went into water we made sure they were at the ready and the windows were down. When/ if we got stuck we would throw the pump on the floor in the front passenger side first (radio was there) and then the drivers side. chuck the hoses out the window and then plug them in. I plugged it in once before putting the hose out. Lets say my wife was not happy after that. If we were facing up hill we would throw them on the seat floor.
We would never wind our winch in after using it for a recovery. We would just wind the excess cable around the bullbar and leave it ther until our trip was finished. We never knew if we were going to get stuck in the next 5 minutes or 5 days. Your vehicle does not have to look pretty by winding the winch in. you are just waisting tme and battery power that you have to put back into it.
One of my friends has made up relective arrows pointing to his recovery points. I have them also but have never put them on the car.
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The couple I would throw in are -
1. Get to know where your recovery points are, and make sure they are actually recovery points, not tie down points. At a pinch tie down points can be used but it is highly dangerous.
2. It is always nicer to use your own recovery gear. Snatch straps in particular have a limited life so it isn't fair on the recovery vehicle to always be using their gear. Before going into an obstacle get your winch ready, hook up your straps if need be and double check to make sure they are properly attached.
3. If doing a water crossing and you don't have a fancy car bra that has a pocket for your snatch strap (like me) and you are just using a tarp (like I do), loosely wrap the strap around your snorkel so you can get to it quickly if needed. Don't just throw the coiled strap on top of the bonnet and hope it stays there. What can (and does) happen is the strap falls off and gets caught in your wheels, which is not only dangerous but very embarrassing.....
4. With water crossings the designated winch bitch will be standing in the water marking out the correct line and giving directions, so please follow them. Also the giving of beer to the winch bitch as you pass is greatly appreciated.
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Yogi, you and Tim were legends on the last trip and made the trip the best.
Symon also offered help along the way and very much appreciated.
Palm Creek as Yogi mentioned was the hardest and alot of people were cued up and were a little sarcastic. Not from our group.
With Yogi positioned on the other side winching members up I was in the creek guiding members in and using a differnet channel on the uhf so as to not confuse the recovery teams. This worked well and we got 11 cars across very quickly.
As mentioned have all your recovery gear ready and easily accessed. It does not matter what experinace you have or have not listen to the recovry team and they will get you through. Make sure you have proper recovery points on the vehicle and you have all your own gear.
At the end of the day please reward all recovery team members with :cheers: as this is how we accept gratitude.
If you do not feel confident in tackling a crossing other members can assist in taking your vehicle across.
I will have a full rundown sheet that will be given out at our first stop over so you will know what to expect and be ready.
Mark
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Chippy76 .... I am no expert and have no formal training in this area but if you have maybe you could start up a "My Swag Recoveries for Dummies" type book. Then we could have it added as a technical resource here on My Swag for all members to utilise ?
I usually refer new comers to 4x4ing to the 4WD Action Recoveries DVD as a first point of call.
yogi
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Another point to consider, Although it looks like Tim filled the role last year, Is for want of a better term a coordinator who gives the call on all recoveries. There is nothing worse than sitting in a vehicle about to be recovered or doing a recovery, and having directions fired at you from many different people, All with a different viewpoint on what is happening and what should happen.
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"My Swag Recoveries for Idiots"
Nice idea, but why is there a photo of me on the cover???
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I’m surprised no one has mentioned having the camera handy at all times so the images can we shared with your fellow myswag members
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Another point to consider, Although it looks like Tim filled the role last year, Is for want of a better term a coordinator who gives the call on all recoveries. There is nothing worse than sitting in a vehicle about to be recovered or doing a recovery, and having directions fired at you from many different people, All with a different viewpoint on what is happening and what should happen.
Could not agree more.
One great thing last year was that we had a great team that just clicked. Yogi, Tim, J.K and Symon that all worked together assisting the vehicles. Although Tim would not stop playing in the mud even when the recovery was done ;D
I’m surprised no one has mentioned having the camera handy at all times so the images can we shared with your fellow myswag members
We had over 3000 pics to share but the good ones were posted.
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Do recoveries include "from your wife"
So like if I have a few and get a bit lippy and think I own my car ,house and camper and the MRS starts to give me a decent ear bashing to which i will be helpless to defend ,is there a special word or phrase I should yell out to advise the RECOVERY TEAM that I am in need of urgent assitance .?
I will have my strap out ready , however it may be wrapped around my head for storage and protection , but just hook up and get me out of there. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
on a serious note fully agree with everything yogi and others have said . :cup:
Jetcrew :D
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Theo
You will need a note from your wife giving you permission to come over to the men's section during the trip... For 2 beers per person we will advise your wife we are talking about solar panels!!
Mark
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Nice idea, but why is there a photo of me on the cover???
You and me both brother ;D ...... There is nothing to be ashamed about being recovered ..... It just means you are having fun and most importantly learning something :cheers:
All you have to do is follow jk's advise at Cannal creek if your looking for an easy track ..... Only two trucks busted cv's trying to get up the track following that line yesterday :cup: Oh and nothing else even came close to making it ;D
yogi
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;D :-* ;D :-* .........................If your in doubt about which line to take ask me, I'm good at that sort of thing........apparently ???
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;D :-* ;D :-* .........................If your in doubt about which line to take ask me, I'm good at that sort of thing........apparently ???
:cheers: I can feel the love brother 8)
yogi
PS(if your after a more technical line follow JK ..... If your after a simpler line ask JK 8))
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You and me both brother ;D ...... There is nothing to be ashamed about being recovered ..... It just means you are having fun and most importantly learning something :cheers:
All you have to do is follow jk's advise at Cannal creek if your looking for an easy track ..... Only two trucks busted cv's trying to get up the track following that line yesterday :cup: Oh and nothing else even came close to making it ;D
yogi
As they say, if you have never been bogged you haven't been trying.
That line you took was rather easy, it was just the saggy bottom that was the problem ;D
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Good topic, for those that may be interested this is what I have been doing for the past 22 years
http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/jobs/MechanicRecovery/ (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/jobs/MechanicRecovery/)
and as an instructor at the school (currently) I can, if required provide all of the info plus how to work out the breaking strain on chain, steel wire rope etc, loads they can safely take and best (only) place to buy your recovery equipment.
PM me if interested, its all mostly in PowerPoint.
:cheers:
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hey rowan,
Is there any chance you have a copy of the most recent driver precis? I had a copy of mine, but I think SWMBO threw it out.
Id love copy of any recovery info you have, I'm seriously considering writing some sort of manual.
Cheers Chippy :D
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Thats Truckie crap lol. Will have a look when get back to work on Mon to see if I can find it.
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They are all great tips guys. We also had a bank up at Palm and were lucky to be called through as we were two and they were ten. In those situations though you have to have a thick skin. There were plenty there to give advice and this is where my tip is.
For those that are asking for help. Take advice from those who are there to guide you. Don't be swayed in lots of directions, stay with the team or those you have decided are best to help out. I'll bet a case (of Cold Gold) you'll be at some crossing either having a look or setting up water blinds or straps etc. Others will then come along and be full of advice. The two that comes to me was being told by one in Palm that I was an idiot for stopping as I came to the accent, well another fellow was talking to this dude and my wife over heard. At the end of the day I was in low first and locked so there was no need to go 100KPH and we made it up quite easy. point being others were tackling it way to fast IMO and things can break.
The other great one was at Nolans and Frostd and I walked the different lines deciding which way to go and a fellow on the bank started telling us all the facts. we found out he got stuck, spent 40 minutes waiting fr help and his camper was still draining when we got there.
Anyway, point is once the recovery is under way stick with the agreed recovery strategy and you should be right.
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Rowanb ......... that would be very kind of you ...... if could you put something together and let me know what size it is so I can work out the best way to send it through the internet to me 8)
SteveandViv ..... so true .... everones an expert when there not doing it ;D
Thanks
yogi
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Theo
You will need a note from your wife giving you permission to come over to the men's section during the trip... For 2 beers per person we will advise your wife we are talking about solar panels!!
Mark
Ahhh very good point mate about 3 weeks before the trip I'll start talking about "low light re-fraction panels" these panels work north of the tropic of capricorn and are especcially suited to the cape .An that I sold a few to you.
So that should give me out to test the performance after dinner ,and spend some time with the big dogs , I'll have to work on my bark though, it's a little wimpery at present. ;D ;D
Back on track, I agree with the comments about knowing who you trust.
Any idiot can get a vehical recovered , but the real people know how to do it safley and with little or no damage to the vehical or persons.
I always apply the rule that if the guy giving me directions ect is the one who will be towing me home or sitting there with me for days then he's the one I listen to. cause he has as much invested in the situation as me. Everything else is just white noise to me.
Jetcrew ;D ;D
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I always apply the rule that if the guy giving me directions ect is the one who will be towing me home or sitting there with me for days then he's the one I listen to. cause he has as much invested in the situation as me. Everything else is just white noise to me.
Good point u make there Jetcrew!
Cheers Chippy :D
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Well being one off the group from last year, all I can say is the myswag recovery team definitely know what they are doing from my point of view. Yogi, Tim, Simon, JK and Mark had it down to an art, one directing traffic into the creeks safely, one through the harrards and the rest ready to do what is needed to get everyone out safely without hesitation. You can't ask for a better team.
You will all be in very capable hands that is for sure.
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I agree with Theo, Last years recovery team were exceptional and I wouldnt have made it without them. With Mark conducting and Yogi's beast supported by Symon Tim and JK it was fantastic. Also a special mention for Duggie and the chainsaw at gunshot. I was concerned that the smoke dangling from his lips would burn out before the log was cut. Looking forward to this year but sad to see that Yogi's name is not on the list. Who is going to cook the pizza??
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I think it also needs to be said that the people who were being recovered were a pleasure to deal with. It is so much better when you don't have to contend with egos and all the other crap that can creep in when on a trip like this.
Everyone was there to have a good time and a good time was had by all.
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I would also like to add my two bobs worth into this topic.
As a group you have those who recover and those who are been recovered, but you also have those who pre-recover. Pre-recovery is where those who are been recovered have been made aware of what is up ahead, have had there nerves settled for what there about to go through and have their own recovery equipment at the ready. EG:Checked that their hubs are engaged, winch rope is run out, snatch straps are attached and radio is on the right channel and so forth. For a lot of people this sort of trip through the OTL and such like, are a once in a life time event and have never been in a situation where they have came across where recovery was needed. A guiding hand and helpful information from a fellow team member is every bit as important as the recovery it self. cheers duggie
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I would also like to add my two bobs worth into this topic.
As a group you have those who recover and those who are been recovered, but you also have those who pre-recover. Pre-recovery is where those who are been recovered have been made aware of what is up ahead, have had there nerves settled for what there about to go through and have their own recovery equipment at the ready. EG:Checked that their hubs are engaged, winch rope is run out, snatch straps are attached and radio is on the right channel and so forth. For a lot of people this sort of trip through the OTL and such like, are a once in a life time event and have never been in a situation where they have came across where recovery was needed. A guiding hand and helpful information from a fellow team member is every bit as important as the recovery it self. cheers duggie
A good reason why having one "chief" to control all recoveries, who is trained, or well experienced is a good idea. This ensures that allthe prerecovery stuff can be checked and helps to calm the nerves.
Cheers Chippy :D
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Last year was one of the first times I had done any REAL 4 x4 driving and it was great to have someone who know what he was doing beside me when I was driving telling me what to expect and what to do.
Thanks Mark.
These recovery guys got not only me but a few other novices through ok last year. My advise to those who are going, is to listen to the recovery team leaders (J.K, SYMON, DUGGIE and MARK) when they offer advise, and thank them when required.
Bert
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Sorry everyone i have been offline for awhile. I have to agree with everything that has been said in this post.
The main reason that yogi and i had the recovery down to a fine art was because yogi insisted that we have a practise before we get to the OTL. I dont have the pic but i am sure someone will post a pic of Yogi and I fine tuning the recoverys :cheers:
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Tim are you referring to this incident?
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Tim are you referring to this incident?
That is a very realistic looking practice drill, Yogi went the extra mile!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thats the one i am talking about. Yes yogi wanted it as realistic as possible
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Thats the one i am talking about. Yes yogi wanted it as realistic as possible
I think it was nearly as realistic as yogi's bum sucking the buttons on the seat. That was kinda close. How did it happen?
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This is what happens when you pull off the track to let some one past ....... it was like quick sand / mud .... hard crusty surface and liquid underneath !!!!
It was a great thing to happen so early on in the trip as it really heightened myself and Tim's sensors to just how quickly and easily things can go wrong ...... one second of lost concentration and a real rookie mistake but it was good practice to make sure me and Tim understood each other before trying it on any one else.
One of the most important tips for any trip .........
"NEVER NEVER EVER WHAT EVER YOU DO LEAVE THE TRACK"
you can quote me on that ;D
yogi
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just a quick question along the recovery lines, if 2 people were on standby in the creeks with a max trax each and as soon as someone started to bog down they jammed them in under each front wheel to help gain traction. is that a reasonable idea? i am thinking the less time stationary in the creek the better chance of keeping water out.
just idea any cons and pros?
cheers
Diksta
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The problem is not with the water but the mud at some crossings.
Regarding water crossings the hardest one is Nolan's brook but it is deep and has a sandy bottom and is too dangerous to have someone ready to get in front of a car in deep water.
As far as I know no one has used them on the otl. Driving on the sand up there yes they would be great.
Mark
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The problem is not with the water but the mud at some crossings.
Regarding water crossings the hardest one is Nolan's brook but it is deep and has a sandy bottom and is too dangerous to have someone ready to get in front of a car in deep water.
As far as I know no one has used them on the otl. Driving on the sand up there yes they would be great.
Mark
just trying to think out side the square,
cheers
Diksta
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Good recovery gear and good support will get you through. Just stop at each crossing and watch other
Cars go through will give you an idea on what is best.
Mark
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Good recovery gear and good support will get you through. Just stop at each crossing and watch other
Cars go through will give you an idea on what is best.
Mark
And a quick phone call to CRW who is a week behind you to advise him of conditions ;D ;D
Don't worry about the Maxtrax Diksta, your driving a Toyota and most of all you are in good hands :cup:
Cheers
Carl
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Carl
We will make all the crossings as hard as we can for you. ;D
Mark
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I agree with Mark. There is no way you could throw the MaxTrax under the car in Noans etc. I did use ours up at Virlya Point as I went to turn aroun up the top and was not in low, lost momemntum and stopped. Got the Trax out and with a quick nudge of the throttle was on our way again. There was no where else that the Trax would have been any help. Places like Palm Creek etc need winches as the exits are long and you would need 100 sets of MaxTrax to make a difference.
Anyway, that's how it was for us. Just keep the tyre pressure low. I had 14 front 22 rear all the time on the OTL and had no problem
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just trying to think out side the square,
Nothing wrong with that, but the truth is that we really don't know what method will be best until we get there. I'm sure every trip we do things will be slightly different so we can't take too much for granted.
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Guys have great trip and learn from last year :cheers:
yogi