MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: krisandkev on March 29, 2015, 08:57:56 PM
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Here we go....... And once started how far will this spread. (It has cost $50 just to drive through Kalumburu for a few years now.) Better get up there and see it for free while you can. Well not really free, we spend a lot of money visiting the area...... Kevin
Kimberley traditional owners are looking to charge fees and tighten the regulation of the cruise boat industry to protect the region's cultural values.
Some of the most picturesque sections of the northern Kimberley coast are only accessible by boat or plane.
Each year, around 8,000 people are booking onto cruise boats and charter vessels that allow them to disembark at sites like the Horizontal Falls, and Raft Point.
In recent years, Aboriginal groups like Dambimangari have been granted exclusive possession native title rights of swathes of land and sea.
They are now looking to exercise their legal rights to control where people are travelling.
Dambimangari are proposing a system of visitor permits that would require every cruise boat traveller to pay $110.
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So can we charge them to come into our city's and towns >:D
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So can we charge them to come into our city's and towns >:D
works for me.
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Sooo....... hypothetically:
if you were an Aboriginal on one of these said cruise-boats, would you be subject to this fee?? And if not, why not??
If this were in reverse, would it not be classified as racism? My point is, is this not racism too?? Integration seems to be only in certain circumstances??
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Before I make a fool of myself,
Any info on how the $110 fee will be used to protect region's cultural values?
Do the traditional land owners pay land taxes or rates on the land they traditionally own?
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More of the article says,
Dambimangari spokeswoman Leah Umbagai said there needed to be more recognition that people are going onto Aboriginal country and better respect for scared sites.
"It really hurts us to see people are going there without any knowledge or understanding of the country, and our traditions and customs and our beliefs," she said.
"There were quite a few occasions where people went and took chippings of [rock] paintings and then when people found out, they threw them overboard.
"Removing or touching things, that's just not right, and it hurts us."
The money would be channelled into the group's ranger group, to spend more time educating the tour companies and repairing any damage at popular spots.
Now I am not sure if the tour companies would allow people to damage and take things out of the sacred sites, but I may be wrong. Will find out in June when we do a 12 day boat tour. Are the aboriginal people going to fund and do all of the work in administrating the permit system, collection and distribution of the fees? But they have been granted ownership of the land so we have to follow their rules. Is this a life style choice argument? We love to travel and travel into remote areas. That is our life style choice, but we also are fully self funded, no government hand outs for us. I know, we cannot talk about things like this - it is racist. ;D Kevin
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$110....Not sure if that amount will help....maybe more maybe less, but something has to be done to protect these areas...
I have traveled to many of these places and no matter where you go most of these places have been affected by tourists, whether it by them leaving rubbish, or going off the designated path for a better photo, scratching their mark into rocks or trees, taking a souvenir, every visitor has some impact on these areas...
Whether you agree with the governments position on Native title or not, currently it is their land and they are entitled to use it/charge for it/conserve it as they please.
"just my two cents"
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Simples as the Meercat says, boycot these places with total exclusion and see how long it takes till we see if its realy cultural protection or $$$ the owners are interested in . ;D
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Simples as the Meercat says, boycot these places with total exclusion and see how long it takes till we see if its realy cultural protection or $$$ the owners are interested in . ;D
Given the quote from the article I think that they wouldn't miss those who chose to not go.
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More of the article says,
Dambimangari spokeswoman Leah Umbagai said there needed to be more recognition that people are going onto Aboriginal country and better respect for scared sites.
"It really hurts us to see people are going there without any knowledge or understanding of the country, and our traditions and customs and our beliefs," she said.
"There were quite a few occasions where people went and took chippings of [rock] paintings and then when people found out, they threw them overboard.
"Removing or touching things, that's just not right, and it hurts us."
The money would be channelled into the group's ranger group, to spend more time educating the tour companies and repairing any damage at popular spots.
Now I am not sure if the tour companies would allow people to damage and take things out of the sacred sites, but I may be wrong. Will find out in June when we do a 12 day boat tour. Are the aboriginal people going to fund and do all of the work in administrating the permit system, collection and distribution of the fees? But they have been granted ownership of the land so we have to follow their rules. Is this a life style choice argument? We love to travel and travel into remote areas. That is our life style choice, but we also are fully self funded, no government hand outs for us. I know, we cannot talk about things like this - it is racist. ;D Kevin
Of course no reputable tour operator would 'allow' tourist to cause damage. However that doesn't stop it occurring - especially by those who see such instructions as a breach of their 'right' to do whatever they like.
Seems to me that $110 isn't a large figure in the total cost of such tours. If the money is going towards funding jobs in the local communities - rangers etc - then it is entirely reasonable, especially as it not only increases the financial viability of the communities but also assists in protecting these sites for others to visit later.
AFAIC it is no different to a charges to visit other 'tourist attractions'.
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Given the quote from the article I think that they wouldn't miss those who chose to not go.
no, but once the money stops they wont miss it, but the shonks that always seem to be doing scams on these "INCOMES" will..
I say (http://www.hotleathers.com/zoom/PPA405.jpg)
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remote communities dont really see any money from tourism, so a boycott wont bother them at all, in fact probably make it easier not seeing the rubbish and damage done by the small amount of bad tourists that give the majority a bad name.
If the money is used to manage the area, and is used to give employment opportunities to the communities then I think its not a bad thing.
Our government agencies charge all sorts of fees to ( at times poorly) manage national parks etc when we already pay for in our taxes.
Anyway just my 2 bobs worth
Cheers Glen
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no, but once the money stops they wont miss it, but the shonks that always seem to be doing scams on these "INCOMES" will..
I say (http://www.hotleathers.com/zoom/PPA405.jpg)
Now I understand, Park Rangers, like Council employees, are on Bruce's Definitive List of "Scroates"
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Just a funny thought
Over the last 200 years the white man wanted the Aboriginals to be more like the white man and adopt his way................it's starting to be fulfilled :laugh:
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Of course no reputable tour operator would 'allow' tourist to cause damage. However that doesn't stop it occurring - especially by those who see such instructions as a breach of their 'right' to do whatever they like.
Seems to me that $110 isn't a large figure in the total cost of such tours. If the money is going towards funding jobs in the local communities - rangers etc - then it is entirely reasonable, especially as it not only increases the financial viability of the communities but also assists in protecting these sites for others to visit later.
AFAIC it is no different to a charges to visit other 'tourist attractions'.
Very good points. I would love to see the local communities get involved in the tours, even running some tours. The most disappointing thing is to go to an aboriginal owned attraction and not seeing any aboriginal people working there! Only non aboriginal people working. For those who have done the Great Central Road trip and have visited the towns/communities and their shops, tourist centres and art centres would have noticed that there are no aboriginal people working in them. When we did it in 2013 there were Fijian’s and Samoa’s working in them and they were very open about the lack of interest from local people, quote, ‘We advertise locally but they just don’t want to work.’ So yes charge a fee in the Kimberley but use the money wisely and have rangers to look after the area, maybe do the same in the communities to try and stop the destruction of buildings and the graffiti. ;) Kevin
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Just a funny thought
Over the last 200 years the white man wanted the Aboriginals to be more like the white man and adopt his way................it's starting to be fulfilled :laugh:
Ha ha. Good point.
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Certainly not to be argumentative but the law of this country has deemed it fit for people of Aboriginal and Torres straight to receive extra protections under the crimes act and other relevant state legislations..I am not speaking against this... as smarter people than me worked out was needed and i prob agree to a degree...
the issue i have is this..
under all laws that i can find that allow these protections or concessions in law..no where does the person actually have to PROVE that they are from these groups. Crazy i know ..but simply identifying as member of these groups is enough to earn your the legal concessions.
I have spent a lot of time in the outback and up north fishing so much so I feel at one with the land.. and when i am up north i feel even more like somewhere in my ancestry someone must have been aboriginal ..although i cant prove it just yet ..luckily I don't have to under law..and even better I cant be prosecuted for maybe thinking i was if ....in fact i was not ....
so the fees don't matter to me because all i need to do is identify as such and i don't have to pay.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
its simply a matter of how you identify or feel at the time .. if the fed govt cant prove someone's ancestry to a degree required by law i,m pretty sure i,m safe up north.. I just refuse to pay ..full stop
equality is about just that... esp when it comes to children seeing the land they are born in. why does my son have to pay and others don't..
Jet ;D ;D
i,ve seen plenty of the "more local rangers" just means more people on pay roll with not much change in the area.
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As I understand it Jet, it is about 'identifying as' indigenous, which is taken in part to be determined by 'being accepted as' by the community in question.
I know what you mean about feeling at one with the land, I'm like that where I can trace my family back 5 generations. What I 'get' from that is that it must be really special if you have links back 50,000 years, rather than 150 years as in my case.
Yes, your kids and mine were born here and have links back for up to 200 years tops. So I guess the difference is still about 50,000 years, give or take.
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Private property owners usualy dont get taxpayer funding to the tune of multiple millions either like the ones in question already do .
Want to run these areas as a business and charge a fee is fine, pay taxes on earnings and receive no taxpayer funding as other property owners have to, No problem ..I'd pay the $110 to visit if we wanted to go there .
That $110 you have to pay isnt just for the land access, if you just want to travel past that area it covers a few klicks out to sea from the coast as well .
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I dont think the remote communities even think about trying to run as a business. These are people who have lived in their home area for thousands of years. They have a very real connection to their land and are desperate to provide any sort of a future for their children (as we would want)
If they move from their traditional lands then they would loss any claim to traditional ownership under land right legislation. Can you imagine the greedy multinational mining companies if they didnt have the restrictions of dealing withtraditional owners?
I for one am grateful there is a barrier to keeping these greedy bastards out.
Think about access to complete areas locked up by mining companies?
I'm no bleeding heart, but I do have empathy.
Funny how a white community can pop up in the middle of nowhere and have all the services required (yes it is a profitable tax paying entity) , but what about communities that have existed for who knows for how long?
I dont know what the solutions are, but lets not take the easy road and blame remote communities for the consequences of external changes they have no control over.
There are many proud and noble people trying to hold their families together and I for one have much respect for them
Again just my 2 bobs worth
Cheers Glen
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Well, I've got a few hectares and some parts of it - like where my dad's ashes are - are pretty special to me. I'm the owner. I have 100% say about who camps here. Yes, I get some tax concessions for being an agroforester. There are some bits on my place that are pristine and fragile, some bits that shelter endangered species. I make sure that even I keep well away from them. I want 100% say about who goes where and what they do there. I've been gratefully reading this site for a while now, and I read legitimate condemnation after legitimate condemnation of drunks, yobbos, vandals, skinflint grey nomads who overstay their welcome, hoons who cut things down for fun, drongos who s**t anywhere they like, and so on. I want to have 100% right to say to these losers - go elsewhere. Ruin somewhere else. Lots of those people feel entitled to go where they like and do what they like just because they can chant Oi Oi Oi. They think people owe them a favour. I don't agree. I do agree with the swaggers here who say that owners - all owners - should be able to control their own destiny and make their own decisions.
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Many years ago I visited Outer Reef on the Great Barrier Reef. The tour operators were very strict about standing on the coral, which largely due to this request, was pristine.
I have just returned from a cruise to New Caledonia, the location of the second largest barrier reef in the world, where we visited 4 different locations. The last, the Isle of Pines was supposedly the best as far as the condition of the reef and coral was concerned.
It was saddening to see around a 1000 people basically doing what they wanted with no regard to the health of the reef. The coral was trashed. It looked like a gravel pit. Only in water too deep for people to stand on the coral was there any indication of 'healthy' coral, and I use the word 'healthy' with reservations. Unlike the Great Barrier Reef, the coral was covered in parasitic plant life that is effectively choking the coral.
Add to that nickel mining where the tailings are dumped into the sea. The effect that this has on the oceans ecology doesn't need much thought to determine the outcome.
The cruise organisers push the passengers to organise their land based activities by paying for pre-organised tours on-board, which is always more than similar tours on offer by the locals at the location the ship is berthed. Approximately half of the people who were partaking in swimming activity in the morning were back on the ship by lunch time for the free lunch on offer at the buffet. So the net effect on the local economy from more than half of the people I saw who went to the islands was 'zero'. The same cannot be said about the impact those same people had standing on the coral.
Many of the locals inhabitants of the islands had food and drinks for sale, but there were very few people buying from the locals from my observations.
This was my first and last cruise. They are organised in a manner to maximise the amount of money the cruise operator can make and little regard is given to the inhabitants of the islands/locations they visit.
Here is a perfect example, not 2 weeks ago Vanuatu was flattened by cyclone Pam. Now one of the islands they visit on this particular cruise was Mystery Island, which is uninhabited. The cruise operator drops passengers off by tender, and locals from surrounding islands make their way to Mystery Island to offer food, drink and souvenirs for sale. Due to the cyclone, Mystery Island was bypassed, and another island in the New Caledonia Loyalty Island chain was added to the itinerary. I boarded the ship thinking that there would be some means by which the cruise operators would give people an opportunity to make donations to the islanders surrounding Mystery Island who rely on the tourists visiting the island for their income. There was nothing, not so much as a mention in passing of cyclone Pam and absolutely no mention of the effect the cyclone has had on Vanuatu. That is how much cruise operators care about the inhabitants of the islands/locations they deposit their passengers. In my opinion, they couldn't give a sh!t about the local economies and ecologies in which they operate.
The island in New Caledonia that was substituted for Mystery island is not favoured by the cruise operator because the nearest beach is a 20 minute bus ride which is strictly controlled by the locals, but paid for on the ship. What percentage the islanders get of the bus fee, I don't know, but bet your boots it's not 100% of what the ship collects. When Vanuatu recovers, which they will, and without the help of the cruise organisers, the cruise ship will bypass the New Caledonia location with the 20 minute bus ride and revert back to Mystery Island who will have recovered without any help from those same people who come in their 1000's to trash their pristine beaches.
If the indigenous people of the Kimberley want to protect their home and ecology against the cruise operators and the 1000's of people they deposit onto their pristine beaches, I wish them all the luck in the world. But I don't hold any hope for their success against the money machines that the cruise operators are.
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As u know we are planning our Kimberley adventure and departure date is set at 2nd of May
one thing I am desperate to do is the Argyle mine tour which for the last 10 years has only been available at the time of the Ord muster at a cost of $105pp
last year after the muster the traditional land owners started joined with a local flight group and flew ppl in for tours of the mine
this year traditional land owners are now organising their own land tours of the mine at a cost of $245 pp
after having spoken to the Kununurra Visitor centre (wonderful helpful people) the tours that they previously ran and that offered by the traditional land owners are EXACTLY the same .. same cultural info provided some tour content .. just ripping an extra $140 pp out of our pockets
apparently talks are continuing about Kununurra VC running a tour but I'm not holding out a lot of hope
Argyle mine already do a hell of a lot to encourage and promote cultural knowledge and protection, infrastructure and employment ... so I wonder where my $140 is going if I book the tour .. yet to speak with GeoffA and Kay about this but I know Speewa not so happy
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As u know we are planning our Kimberley adventure and departure date is set at 2nd of May
one thing I am desperate to do is the Argyle mine tour which for the last 10 years has only been available at the time of the Ord muster at a cost of $105pp
last year after the muster the traditional land owners started joined with a local flight group and flew ppl in for tours of the mine
this year traditional land owners are now organising their own land tours of the mine at a cost of $245 pp
after having spoken to the Kununurra Visitor centre (wonderful helpful people) the tours that they previously ran and that offered by the traditional land owners are EXACTLY the same .. same cultural info provided some tour content .. just ripping an extra $140 pp out of our pockets
apparently talks are continuing about Kununurra VC running a tour but I'm not holding out a lot of hope
Argyle mine already do a hell of a lot to encourage and promote cultural knowledge and protection, infrastructure and employment ... so I wonder where my $140 is going if I book the tour .. yet to speak with GeoffA and Kay about this but I know Speewa not so happy
I don't think many of the cruise passengers make their way to the Argyle mine tour.
To put some perspective on how much money is involved here, a video aboard ship indicated that the last ship built by the cruise operator whose ship I was aboard cost the company 800 million US dollars to build, that is over a trillion AUD. The latest of these ships on this companies fleet operates out of Perth and sails up to the Kimberley.
With vast amounts of income generated by these cruise companies comes the ability to influence and lobby governments. I for one will not begrudge the indigenous people of the Kimberly charging for entry to their lands. They are going to need a pretty large wallet if it comes down to a fight against the cruise operators.
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it won't stop with cruise operators .. it will spread to every sector
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I don't think many of the cruise passengers make their way to the Argyle mine tour.
To put some perspective on how much money is involved here, a video aboard ship indicated that the last ship built by the cruise operator whose ship I was aboard cost the company 800 million US dollars to build, that is over a trillion AUD. The latest of these ships on this companies fleet operates out of Perth and sails up to the Kimberley.
With vast amounts of income generated by these cruise companies comes the ability to influence and lobby governments. I for one will not begrudge the indigenous people of the Kimberly charging for entry to their lands. They are going to need a pretty large wallet if it comes down to a fight against the cruise operators.
Agree with your sentiments Marschy (surprise, surprise)
But a small numerical error me thinks
1,000 = one thousand
1,000,000 = one million
1,000,000,000 = one billion
1,000,000,000,000 = one trillion
KB
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edit. wrong link.
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I think we all agree it is not about the money, we are willing to pay our way no matter where we go. It is about what has happened so far with the waste of money that has been poured into certain community groups. This is not a maybe it is a proven and has been widely reported and those of us who have travelled to remote parts of this country have seen the results. Yes we agree that land you own you have the right to manage it how you want according to law. In my community the infrastructure is supplied by either local or state government and everyone is allowed to drive through my community and they are allowed to take photos of the area as they drive through. Common law says anyone can even enter into my property and walk directly up to my front door and remain until I tell them to leave my property. I have been to other communities and confronted by signs saying that I am not allowed to enter, to drive down the street and I am not allowed to take photos. No difference to my community where the infrastructure is supplied by either local or state government. Another town I had to pay $50 just to drive through to go to a camping area. Another town I entered to get fuel there was a sign telling me that I had to report to the community office and sign in and get approval to go to the fuel station and get my fuel. OK things happened when this country was invaded as they say. Like every other country in the world. It was not you or me that did this. If someone is to blame then why not blame England? Sorry to ramble on but like I said, I hate discrimination and the waste of our money and hate being blamed for what happened a long time ago. Kevin
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Private property owners usualy dont get taxpayer funding to the tune of multiple millions either like the ones in question already do .
Want to run these areas as a business and charge a fee is fine, pay taxes on earnings and receive no taxpayer funding as other property owners have to, No problem ..I'd pay the $110 to visit if we wanted to go there .
That $110 you have to pay isnt just for the land access, if you just want to travel past that area it covers a few klicks out to sea from the coast as well .
Not wanting to start an off topic argument, but it seems to me that there aren't too many non-traditional landowners / leases who don't get some form of taxpayer subsidy.
E.g. Fuel rebates.
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Not wanting to start an off topic argument, but it seems to me that there aren't too many non-traditional landowners / leases who don't get some form of taxpayer subsidy.
E.g. Fuel rebates.
OK, I will put my hand up. Own acreage with cattle and do not get any form of taxpayer subsidy..... Fully self funded retiree. We have a camper trailer and travel a lot so that is our 'life style choice' and we would not expect to receive any handouts. ;D Kevin
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Good on you Kevin.
I had heard tell that there was a cattle farmer out there somewhere who wasn't claiming the diesel subsidy. :cheers:
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I'm always a bit dubious when people say they don't get handouts or subsidies.
Did you claim anything on previous tax returns? Negative gear or claiming on rentals. Salary sacrificing into super or other ways to reduce your taxable income, Family Trusts?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with any of these. I do as many as I can. I'm sure the majority of us work the system to get the best outcome for us and our family. But... These are all handouts and subsidies
OK now, I am not sure that you meant to accuse me, but NO!!!! But I do not have to justify my life style and if you do not believe me, then tough. I think I better get out of this thread as it seems some just have to take it a bit too far. And I am sure there are others out there who also do not get handouts or subsidies. Kevin
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Interesting thread and before it gets closed.
My thoughts are.
If they want to do it good on them. As mentioned don't go. We are all happy to pay reef fees, national park fees etc? There will never be an us it will always be us and them. But that's life.
Having experienced living in a remote area, it has really opened my eyes and unless you have you will never understand.
Whether you get a handout or not does it really matter. Is it because we are not. We all have the option and money to travel, where you want to go and what you think is worth paying for is always your decision. Whether who runs or owns it.
Hang on, I forgot the Govt is ripping us off all the time but that's fine they are from our side of the fence.
It's still the lucky country.
Mark
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It cost my family in excess of $300 to see the pristine beauty of the World Heritage listed Great Barrier Reef 20 years ago, and it was worth every penny.
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Check out the lmintji store closure on the Gibb River Road . then come back to try to sell me the story of ,,,,,,,,,The rot has stepped up a bit further :'( :'(
l fear for this country
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Check out the lmintji store closure on the Gibb River Road . then come back to try to sell me the story of ,,,,,,,,,The rot has stepped up a bit further :'( :'(
l fear for this country
No different to any other dispute between owner and lessee anywhere ... so long as not viewing it through coloured glasses.
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I'm always a bit dubious when people say they don't get handouts or subsidies.
Did you claim anything on previous tax returns? Negative gear or claiming on rentals. Salary sacrificing into super or other ways to reduce your taxable income, Family Trusts?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with any of these. I do as many as I can. I'm sure the majority of us work the system to get the best outcome for us and our family. But... These are all handouts and subsidies
Just goes to show how much some people have their blinders on. Are you really serious comparing tax returns and the like which, by the way, are products of working hard and contributing to society, to government handouts to people who are flat out not interested in working. Please spare me.
And I will say that I'm sick of this labeling that the problems are my fault. I think it is very sad and I truly feel for what happened to people in the past but I'm sick of hearing that my grandfather, father, myself and my son are somehow the fault of all these peoples woes. Go back and blame the pommy settlers by all means, but I was born here as too were my previous generations and now my son and we are expected to feel less entitled to this great land all because someone else was here before me.
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No different to any other dispute between owner and lessee anywhere ... so long as not viewing it through coloured glasses.
Glasses of any hue can be distorted by the colour of money :-*
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Just goes to show how much some people have their blinders on. Are you really serious comparing tax returns and the like which, by the way, are products of working hard and contributing to society, to government handouts to people who are flat out not interested in working. Please spare me.
And I will say that I'm sick of this labeling that the problems are my fault. I think it is very sad and I truly feel for what happened to people in the past but I'm sick of hearing that my grandfather, father, myself and my son are somehow the fault of all these peoples woes. Go back and blame the pommy settlers by all means, but I was born here as too were my previous generations and now my son and we are expected to feel less entitled to this great land all because someone else was here before me.
I think I love you.
Best post ever.
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No different to any other dispute between owner and lessee anywhere ... so long as not viewing it through coloured glasses.
Glasses of any hue can be distorted by the colour of money :-*
Jamie, you are saying you 'fear for the country' and what prompted this comment was that a group of indigenous landowners dared to have a dispute with a lessee, so changed the locks.
The only difference between that and hundreds of other cases is the colour of the owners' skin.
Happy to have it demonstrated that it is otherwise.
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What a shame its now turning into a racism thread.
Mark
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What a shame its now turning into a racism thread.
Mark
[/quote
Ahh, the old racism card thrown in to stop all discussion. My comments are in no way racist by definition, nor were they meant to be.
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What a shame its now turning into a racism thread.
Mark
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Ahh, the old racism card thrown in to stop all discussion. My comments are in no way racist by definition, nor were they meant to be.
Not racist, just directed at indiginous population. How is that not 'racist by definition'?
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Not racist, just directed at indiginous population. How is that not 'racist by definition'?
Brrrt, wrong. Here's a quick definition for ya. "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
In no way have a ever believed I am superior to another person, we are all human. My comments were directed at anyone who keeps blaming me and my generations either side of me for their life troubles, whatever they may be. I do not see a persons colour, I base my opinions on character and how they act and carry themselves in life, but I still don't judge.
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Brrrt, wrong. Here's a quick definition for ya. "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
In no way have a ever believed I am superior to another person, we are all human. My comments were directed at anyone who keeps blaming me and my generations either side of me for their life troubles, whatever they may be. I do not see a persons colour, I base my opinions on character and how they act and carry themselves in life, but I still don't judge.
You described them as "people who are flat out not interested in working" ... This about people on the other side of the country, who you presumably have no direct experience of, ... how is that consistent with your claim to "base my opinions on character and how they act .. but I still don't judge."?
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You described them as "people who are flat out not interested in working" ... This about people on the other side of the country, who you presumably have no direct experience of, ... how is that consistent with your claim to "base my opinions on character and how they act .. but I still don't judge."?
Because the ones that are contributing to society and have made something of their lives are not the ones who are complaining and blaming everyone else. This all has to stop somewhere and I'm not just talking about people in remote communities. It doesn't matter where you are, the sense of entitlement and poor me has to end for all races. There are so many do gooders that still have not come up with a solution to the problems. Do you know, because I don't.
Back on topic, why do I have to pay to drive through an area of my country when a person who was born on the same day as me in this country as well, doesn't have to pay because of their racial background? We KNOW for a FACT that throwing more money at it is not the solution. I probably wouldn't mind if the money from these schemes actually went to the communities and helped people to get on their feet, but they have to want to change or it is fruitless. Have you personally been to these communities to make your judgements as you accuse me of lacking in first hand experience.
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My 2 cents worth.
All this crap about it is MY COUNTRY I can drive wherever I wont.
Come drive onto my property and see how far you get.
Yes Australia is OUR Country but that does not automatically give you any right to enter private property. I don't care if that property was bought, inherited or by Native Claim. No difference really between Native Title and Inherited.
As for paying to enter private property is always up to the owner, Native owner or otherwise. We are charged ridiculous prices to go to the likes of major attraction, zoo, fun park etc, so why not a private natural wonderland such as El Questro or any other place in the Kimberleys. No different to some of the fees charged to go to some of the Farm Stays that have a Natural Attraction.
Get over it, we don't own it, it is not ours. Should still be thankful that those that do own it still let us go there, regardless of who they are.
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Well said, Al / Jan.
The other thing I am over is the 'they should get over it / it happened years ago to previous generations / I didn't do it'... etc.
It was just 1967 that Aboriginals were 'given' the right to vote.
Only a few years before that that the last 'nomadic' group who had not had contact with European Australians were 'caught' and forced into the 20th century.
After the world wars Aboriginal ex-servicemen were denied the opportunity to apply for 'soldier settler' blocks in the rural areas they came from.
When land rights were finally acknowledged some politicians, for their own short term political interests, whipped up hysteria that this would result in claims on private back yards. Something that these politicians, to their eternal disgrace, knew to be bare faced lies.
It was my great privilege to know a number of ex-POWs of the Japanese, and they were rightly outraged by the refusal of post-WW2 Japanese governments to apologise for war-time atrocities.
On the same basis I can't see that our society has any less collective responsibility for the injustices of the recent past.
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Anyone that thinks that the aboriginals are unreasonable want to be thankful that the maori didn't make it here 800 odd years ago because if they had they would have killed and eaten all the aboriginals and it would make the current situation look quite differnt not to mention Australia's history.
They don't take no for an answer or Shit from anyone and would have handed the settlers and troops here thier arse like they did in nz.they killed the Lions share of 20,000 new south welsh troopers in a matter of days in parehaka and the survivors ran away....that was after killing all the poms.
Realy is pretty appalling the attitudes alot of people have towards the original inhabitants in this day and age.i realy wish people with said attitudes would go to NZ and see how they get on.race relations is at least 30 years behind NZ here...All this ignorance and denial was dead and buried in the 70 across the ditch.
I don't love everything that gos on in nz as far as favoring maori when it comes to university placements over non maori ect but time has shown that early intervention into maori education has paid big dividends in the past 30 years or so and it's the only way to repair the damage and close the gap.
Just my two cents worth