Author Topic: Off-road towing with Triton MN  (Read 3651 times)

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Offline aross11

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Off-road towing with Triton MN
« on: August 31, 2017, 04:43:27 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Long time viewer, first time poster. I'm after some advice about and opinions about off-road towing with my Triton. I plan on purchasing on Conquerer Camper but am concerned about the stories I've heard about dual cabs and bending chassis. From the research I've done I have concluded that many of these cases have been the result of overloading and airbags. I do plan on traveling in places such as the Kimberley and will be traveling on corrugated roads.

So far I've been happy with my Triton and on road it's towing ability is quite capable. Do people think I should be concerned about this issue and should I be considering another vehicle?






Offline glenm64

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 06:43:04 PM »
Ive got a Dmax, tow a van and done heaps of off road.
Set up suspension to carry the load if you dont want sag. Dont over load the tray. Have your camper weights balanced to give around 10% ball weight if possible. Know what your vehicles load capacities are.
The trouble with dual cabs is just about all the load in the back is behind the rear wheels. And thats what will cause the problem if over loaded. Compounded with a heavy ball weight it can cause a problem.

Cheers Glen

There's a big difference between kneeling down
......... and bending over.

Offline cetacean

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 06:43:20 PM »
I reckon just go for it, I've been travelling in dual cabs for many years without any dramas. Firstly a Rodeo and then a D-Max towing a camper and now a BT50 and small off-road van. I love the extra storage offered by utes and couldn't imagine not having one.
Just upgrade the suspension WITHOUT using airbags and she'll be right :cheers:
Mazda BT50, Trakmaster Sturt X-- Country, Stacer 369 Seasprite

KingBilly

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 09:50:44 PM »
A couple of my random thoughts for your consideration.

1. What a lot of people don't realise is that a dual cab ute's TOTAL payload, say 1000 kg, MUST be spread evenly over both axles.  That includes fuel, passengers and load.  A dual cab's load capacity is designed based upon a passenger sitting in each of the five seats.  IMHO a lot of dual cabs only have a driver and passenger and minimal load in the rear seats with the majority of the load, which includes the weight on the tow ball, over the rear axle.  I would hazard a guess that nearly all dual cabs which have bent their chassis, have an overloaded rear axle, yet the vehicle itself may still underweight in total.  Just because you are under your vehicle's GCM doesn't mean you haven't exceeded your rear axle limit.

2. A vehicle manufacturer will have engineered their vehicle's towing capacity and tow ball weight capacity based upon the distance of the vehicle's tow ball from the centre of the rear axle. Take for example the current Isuzu Dmax dual cab which has an engineered tow ball capacity of 350kg based upon the fitment and use of Isuzu's genuine tow bar and tow hitch.  Now say you change that hitch to a longer one, maybe to use a weight distribution hitch or maybe you install a non-genuine tow bar which puts the tow ball further away from the rear axle.  By increasing that distance by just 200mm, will reduce your tow ball capacity to only 300kg.  How many people take that into consideration?

KB

Offline Metters

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 10:59:13 PM »
I've heard about dual cabs and bending chassis. From the research I've done I have concluded that many of these cases have been the result of overloading and airbags.

The main problems are incorrect loading, leverage and the forces generated by mass in motion.  As an example, imagine you have a 2kg axe in your hand.  Hold it by the head with the handle sticking out in front of you in a horizontal position.  It will be very easy to hold it that way.  Now turn it around and try and do the same thing while holding the end of the handle.  This time it won't be easy.  Your wrist will be under a lot of stress and you most likely won't be able to keep it horizontal.  The weight of the axe is still only 2kg but you have moved the greater part of the material (mass) in the axe i.e the head, further away from your hand.  In other words you have put it out on the end of a lever

Now go one step further and stand on the bottom step of a staircase while still trying to hold the axe by the end of the handle.  Step quickly off the step and note the increased strain on your wrist and arm as your feet touch the ground.  That is the result of you and the axle falling but while you stopped suddenly, there was nothing under the end of the axle handle to stop the heavy head from wanting to keep going down.

That is what happens to the end of a ute chassis when material is placed behind the rear axle.  All of it is sitting on a lever which increases in length the further each item is from the axle.  All of this is fine while the car is sitting still but everything changes the moment it moves.  As the front and rear wheels rise and fall over undulating road surfaces, the material behind the axle is constantly being lifted rapidly or stopped suddenly when it falls.  Springs. air bags or even a block of wood between the axle and chassis can't stop the stress on the chassis in the area around the rear axle.  Its end is flexing up and down like a diving board and there is nothing back there to support it.  The springs or air bags just compress and tilt with the chassis while its front and rear end go up and down as it see saws on the rear axle.  If the forces generated by all of this exceed the design limits of the chassis, it will eventually bend.

The other issue is loading.  Most owners forget a dual cab has been designed to carry five people in the cabin.  That means a fully loaded ute should have upwards of 450 kg in the cabin.  There is no point in the manufacturer designing the cabin to carry no more than the combined weight of say an 80kg man, a 60 kg woman and three little kids under eight.  A family like that may not even get to 200kgs.  It has to be five heavy adults plus all of their clothing etc. 

This means you can't take the car up to its maximum capacity unless you can fully load the front with either people or people plus something else.  This often results in many owners having too little up front and too much down the back resulting in the chassis bending even though the car was under its maximum weight.

Sagging:  Don't make the mistake of thinking a near flat rear spring is sagging as you load the car, it is supposed to do that.   They are all designed with the front section short and mounted down low and the rear long and up high.  As the loaded car leans into a corner, the springs change the angle of the axle to assist in stability.  It is a form of rear wheel steering.  This link covers semi trailing arm rear suspension but the same principle applies to live axle leaf sprung cars.  https://www.civilengineeringhandbook.tk/vehicle-technology/1082-suspension-roll-steer.html

Off road towing:   It might not be a bad idea to discuss what you want to tow and where with Mitsubishi.  This email is a few years old but the information will most likely apply to current models and other makes.   

We acknowledge receipt and thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the Mitsubishi
Triton.
Please be advised that Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd (MMAL) only release towing
specifications for vehicles being used under normal conditions such as highway driving. We
would not recommend towing this amount while driving on 4WD tracks or surfaces of this
nature. The 3 Tonne towing capacity is a statement of the maximum permissible towing
weight possible for this vehicle.
Thank you again for your enquiry.
Kind Regards,
Simon
Mitsubishi Customer Assistance Centre
Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd
GPO Box 1851 Adelaide SA 5001

These popular volume selling utes are built to a price and are not bordering on being indestructible like heavy trucks.  Their maximum towing and carrying capacities are usually for good sealed roads only and should be reduced as the conditions get rougher.  If you ignore this and turn to the aftermarket industry to upgrade things, you might get away with it but many don't.





Offline NewieCamper

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 10:26:08 AM »
Off road towing:   It might not be a bad idea to discuss what you want to tow and where with Mitsubishi.  This email is a few years old but the information will most likely apply to current models and other makes.   

We acknowledge receipt and thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the Mitsubishi
Triton.
Please be advised that Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd (MMAL) only release towing
specifications for vehicles being used under normal conditions such as highway driving. We
would not recommend towing this amount while driving on 4WD tracks or surfaces of this
nature. The 3 Tonne towing capacity is a statement of the maximum permissible towing
weight possible for this vehicle.
Thank you again for your enquiry.
Kind Regards,
Simon
Mitsubishi Customer Assistance Centre
Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd
GPO Box 1851 Adelaide SA 5001

These popular volume selling utes are built to a price and are not bordering on being indestructible like heavy trucks.  Their maximum towing and carrying capacities are usually for good sealed roads only and should be reduced as the conditions get rougher.  If you ignore this and turn to the aftermarket industry to upgrade things, you might get away with it but many don't.

This. You need to de-rate your load according to the terrain. Towing at the max is fine on the smooth highway, but get off into the scrub and you need to consider the extra forces from bouncing around over rough terrain and cut your load significantly.

Offline jbc.fletcher

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 01:01:09 PM »
I've got an MN Triton and tow a heavy camper on and off road.  No problems to date.  Been bogged a couple of times but traction pads are good enough to get me out.  You've just got to be sensible and drive at a speed to suit the conditions.  The Triton is a capable car - I certainly see no need to trade in mine.  Stop reading those doomsday forums - no car is perfect ;D

Offline duggie

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 04:22:48 PM »
Buggered if know , but if you have concerns .

Why not just have the ute fitted with a chassis strengthening brace to alleviate the stress on the weakest part of the chassis.

Your Price
$190.00  (Kit) and either do the work yourself or get some one to fit it .


https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/superior-chassis-repair-plate-mitsubishi-triton-ml-mn-28759


I have no association with this mob , found them on google .
" Old Nissans Just Keep On Truckin On "

Offline Metters

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Re: Off-road towing with Triton MN
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 10:51:26 AM »
The Triton is a capable car

I agree and so are all the other makes.  I have never owned one but my wife and I clocked up 80,000 ks travelling in an area bounded by Daintree Village, the bottom of Tasmania and around Lightening Ridge in a 1980 Mitsubishi L200 ute carrying a home made pop top bed over roof camper that was not a slide on. We never had any problems with it and a Triton should be more than capable of doing the same and then some.

Any car will do what it has been designed to do but take any one of them outside its limits, particularly on dirt roads or tracks, and you are asking for trouble.  There would be a lot of owners out there who could have saved themselves a lot of heartache and money had they listened to the doomsday forums instead of the aftermarket industry's advertising.  It was that industry that led them into a false sense of security resulting in things like cracked or bent chassis, broken rear axle housings, broken axles, sheered wheel studs and cracked wheels.