Using chains in the mud

[KeithB]

Here's a theoretical question.

I have a pair of off road chains which I bought for towing a trailer in the High Country and thankfully have need needed to use. We are off on an outback lap in the New Year and I was watching this video on Youtube, which shows (towards the end)  just how slippery flat outback roads can get after very little rain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm3SavgCqV4

It shows normal 4WD vehicles becoming almost uncontrollable after just a few millimetres of rain, even at crawling speeds. So I pictured myself in the same situation. What would I do, other than sit pat and wait for the track to dry out and hope that the rain stops? I have a locked 200 Series with 285 33 inch all terrains towing a 2.5 tonne off road caravan and I'd appreciate some advice on this. I would lock the diffs to start with.

Should I: 
1. Put the chains on the rear wheels of the tow to minimise the chance of jack knifing the caravan.
2. Put the chains on the front wheels to give decent steering.
3. Put one chain on the front left and the other on the rear right and hope that the locked diffs would give better control.
4. Sit pat, put the kettle on and wait a few days for things to improve.

I know this is all very theoretical, but I would appreciate any informed opinions and not descend into a debate on the merits or otherwise of using chains.

Keith

[Bird]

You may find many roads in that condition get closed.

I would take it on individual conditions at the time, and local knowledge goes a long way.

You may only get yourself into deeper Shit with chains/lockers etc.

[HKB Electronics]

As soon as it gets to the point where the surface starts to break down and it doesn't take much rain for that to happen then you can bet the road has been closed and if you get caught driving on it especially with chains you'll pay dearly for it. The mud tends to stick so with or without chains your tires will most likely clog up.

[KeithB]

I would never, in a million years, venture down a closed road.
But if you did get caught out a rig like mine, which of the four options (just added one) would you choose?
Keith

[austastar]

Hi,
    Mid 60s I got caught by rain on a slippery rutted clay road to the Cape Otway lighthouse.
Front wheels of the 48 series Holden in one set, the rear in another and going nowhere.
I had a bag of snow chains, so put them on the rear wheels and progress was easy enough.
Strangely enough we met a motorcyclist in there who had wrapped rope around his rear tyre to get traction on the wet clay.
Chains do tend to pack a huge load of clay under the guards though. Heavy and tedious to remove without a water jet.
Cheers

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

[GeoffA]

IMO, if you're worried about that sort of situation, ditch the AT's and fit MT's.

I'd never fit chains. Too much damage to the track, and too great a risk of damage to the car...

Option 4 for me.

 

[plusnq]

Option 4 for me with towing. We were caught similarly, but without the camper two years ago, travelling between Noccundra and Tibooburra. The day started with sunshine and ended in rain. Could barely stay on the road at low speed. Made it to Warri Gate and the road was flooded. The council closed the road after we got back to Noccundra and told them it was flooded.


https://youtu.be/f0Lf01OHxN4

[Craig Tomkinson]

For many years in the wet season at Cootharaba north of Noosa My dad had a full set of chains for his SWB LandRover as soon as he left the gravel main road and turned on to what is Tomkinson road today as my mob have been there sense around 1900, we would pull up and as dad had the chains just laying on the road were we drove out of them, he drive on to the four chains we hook them up to drive down the road to the house and then over the Paddock, without the chains we could not move evan with Bar tread tires, What you may find Keith is the main road that is gravelled if fine to driveon, but where you pull off the gravel main road that arvo to camp,  is just a dirt track, throught the night you get a storm or a shower of rain overnight it could become very greasy , I would take your chains,  put them on the back wheels with no diff locks as this makes your 4wd hard to turn, and just see if you can sneak your way back to the main road then slip the chains off, Because if you sit around you could get more rain then you are stuck for a week or so, Craig

[edz]

Depending on the rain and the type of soil / how far into it you are the list goes on n on with the if buts and maybe's .....  Just be prepared option "  4. Sit pat, put the kettle on and wait a few days for things to improve. "  May actualy be several weeks or more  ..
Dont forget a good stock of emergency water / food / medications and Epirb / sat phone or similar ..  Boy Scout motto applies .

[Bird]

Option 4 for me with towing.

Yep, I'm with this

Chains will just dig you holes and get you deeper in Shit while dragging a heavy caravan..

[KeithB]

For many years in the wet season at Cootharaba north of Noosa My dad had a full set of chains for his SWB LandRover as soon as he left the gravel main road and turned on to what is Tomkinson road today as my mob have been there sense around 1900, we would pull up and as dad had the chains just laying on the road were we drove out of them, he drive on to the four chains we hook them up to drive down the road to the house and then over the Paddock, without the chains we could not move evan with Bar tread tires,

I have seen a lot of track damage done by blokes with muddies wheel spinning and sliding all over the place.
Craig, in your experience, do chains used sensibly cut up the track as much as people say?
Keith

[MDS69]

I would say sit tight and wait it out. In 2010 we were camped at Montecollina Bore on the Strzelecki and got an overnight storm. Next day we packed up to keep heading south and got 500m down the track (cause there was a sign saying Montecollina Bore 500m) and came across a road train parked up. He told us the road was officially closed so we turned and went back. That 1km round trip took an hour. The trailers had that much mud under the guards that the wheels locked up. Even 3 days later when we left for the second time with the track officially open it was a terribly slippery trip. Those 3 days of forced camping were the best memories of the trip. Ran out of milk, beer, soft drink, bread and other stuff but still had some emergency supplies. Haven’t looked at vegemite on sao’s the same way since.

[GBC]

With 2.5 t of van on the back, chains will just get you 50m further up the incline before gravity makes a mess of your rig and you intentions. There is nowhere outside of the high country in Australia where it is OK to use chains on a council road. Look up mud drags on YouTube to see what chains look like in mud.

[lloydus67]

https://youtu.be/7NHKJQUkvGY
Snow and mud chains are different, mud chains are heavier duty.
The video is a chev blazer using Mud chains used in the mud. He still doesn’t get far until he picks a better line
Sent from me

[Bird]

I dont think hes had the answer he wanted.

[Craig Tomkinson]

No Kieth not at all because your 4wd does not spin as much and you get so much traction, as long as you do not stick the boot in, you are only using them to get back to the main road, then take them off,  seen a few vids and been in all sorts of country from the NT, to QLD, NSW, SA and Vic, if its been dry for a long time and you get a bit of rain it is just so greasy, Would of loved some chains in my travels over the years to get back to the road, as I always free camp well off the road, mainly find a council gravel pit, they are great, but at the end of the day its up to you, Craig

[doc evil]

Here's a theoretical question.

<snip>

Should I: 
1. Put the chains on the rear wheels of the tow to minimise the chance of jack knifing the caravan.
2. Put the chains on the front wheels to give decent steering.
3. Put one chain on the front left and the other on the rear right and hope that the locked diffs would give better control.
4. Sit pat, put the kettle on and wait a few days for things to improve.

I know this is all very theoretical, but I would appreciate any informed opinions and not descend into a debate on the merits or otherwise of using chains.

Keith

1. Nope. You'll destroy the road and the locals will be baying for your blood.
2. Nope. See above.
3. Nope. See above however, it has merit as the drive will go the wheel with the least resistance but the chains on the opposing wheel might give stability to stop the "slide".
4. Yep.

Doc

[moeite]

Many years ago I got caught on the Gunbarrel Highway when it rained - it wasn't much but more than enough to make the road "interesting". Out of that episode I learned that if you're leaving decent wheel tracks then the best option is to park up and wait it out and be frugal with your resources (food, water, power, beer, brandy, etc.)

In my experience using diff locks, front rear or both,  makes the car tend to want to go straight ahead which means that you'll be churning up the road a bit more and the locals won't like that.

Using chains just tends to clog everything up with sticky goop that sets like concrete.

If you must carry on then do it gently with an absolute minimum of wheel spin.

It's pretty astounding what a modern four wheel drive can get through with diff locks, traction control, etc. but just because you can doesn't mean you should.
And for financial peace of mind keep off closed roads - the penalties can be eye watering.

[Craig Tomkinson]

If its wet like in that vid Kieth I would just pull up on a hard gravel knob and wait it out till the road dried out, I was more talking if the main gravel road was ok but the side track not a road was wet still as it can be in a lot of that country if you camp in the shade it takes longer to dry out and you just can not get the 4wd going they just spin on top, I would not drive on wet roads out west again as we drove through the Flinders rangers years ago and the mud stuck the 4wd and trailer must of had another 300kg of mud on everything most never came off because it set like concrete, till we hit corrugated roads hundereds of ks away, Craig 

[KeithB]

Good advice and thank you everyone.
Looks like Option 4. Park up and wait it out.
Keith

[HKB Electronics]

We have been caught out twice, once at Milparinka and once going into Dalhousie springs. We stayed at Milparinka till the road dried, asked the publican if they had some soup, they didn't but he made as some which was very nice of him. Dalhousie we managed to creep our way into the Dalhousie ruins before the road become impassable. We camped for a few days till the road dried. Had a group of three cars not towing pass the second day going into Dalhousie and after three days a couple from Dalhousie coming to check out the ruins. when travelled into Dalhousie on the fourth day, roads very chopped up by the other vehicles and still slippery. Dalhousie was packed with travelers who had pushed on to get their to camp. We had one look and left thankful that we didn't mange to make it their, much nicer camping by ourselves. Both times towing a cross over camper around 1800Kg, many got stuck listening to the radio and had to stay put till the roads dried out. Keep in mind the very hefty fines for travelling on closed roads and ignorance ie pleading I wasn't aware the road is closed is not going to save you. Also keep in mind if you have an accident on a closed road your insurance company will not want to pay out. Can't see the point in ruining the roads, just stay put somewhere and enjoy the peace and quite till the roads as passable, but then we aren't the usual dash from point to point travelers trying to see 6 months worth of touring in four weeks.

[Hoyks]

I got caught on the Wannaring- Tibooburra road in the rain. It made for an interesting drive, 30km/h sideways with the front in the left wheel rut, rear in the right for km on end until I could straighten out for a bit, only to then swap sides. The road out there was sand on clay, so it didn't take much rain to get like a skating rink and anything flicked up stuck to the under side like poo to a blanket.

Chains do help with traction and probably do less overall damage than a spinning mud tyre, but they do dig in and cut up the surface of the road by just rolling across it, even with no torque being applied.

With chains on the rear it might get you some forward progress, but at the expense of steering. Fitting the chains to the front probably won't give you the traction you need to get the lot moving and will chew up the road surface that the back wheels will then be trying to find traction on.
Fitting the pair front/rear will give unpredictable handling and make it more likely to jackknife, especially if you hit the brakes.

For a solo vehicle that just had to get through, like life and death stuff, then chains on the front would probably be best, help pull you through and still maintain steering authority. Going to full lock with chains on can be an issue though, so need to keep that in mind if you're really scrabbling for traction.

If pulling a trailer, probably best to pull up at a spot where you're not going to get flooded and wait it out. If the road is impassable, then you're probably going to be pretty safe parked in the middle of the road for a couple of days and if search planes get sent out at least you'll be easy to find.
The chance of getting crossed up and remodeling the rear of the tow vehicle with the draw bar or the van is probably not worth it.

[achjimmy]

We got caught at menindee lakes. Light rain over night and the 5km drive out to the sealed road rig  we were  all over the place towing . The ATs were useless since then I’ve run muddies. The nitto muddies are the best compromise and I really can’t find a downside to running them over ATs . Since we have been caught a couple of times and they have been brilliant.

I doubt you’d fit chains on the front wheels of a 200 there’s not enough clearance to all the stuff under the guards x2 if you have a KDSS equipped 200.

That clay mud out west gets and sticks to everything

[Bird]

We got caught at menindee lakes.

Could be worse places to get caught   

[GBC]

My best mud story was 2006 when there was winter rain on Cape York and the Gulf. Kowanyama was cut off so we couldn't get in there to fish. We were coming down off the cape, Turned off at Laura and out via Fairview station over the old Mitchell river crossing. The 450 odd km to Normanton on the BDR was all wet, and large sections underwater it took 3 days. We were towing the camp-o-matic at that stage and got turned right around a few times. Great fun because we made it, but could have been so much worse. There was a road closed sign at the Karumba entrance that we had to drive around. I would have felt sheepish except a cattle truck ploughed through in the middle of the night, completely stuffing the road anyway.